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Ideal kitchen cabinet details?

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I’m close to starting construction of our kitchen cabinets. What kind of construction details would you like to see in your ideal custom cabinets? Type & thickness of plywood box? Plywood joinery details? Type of hinges? Slide brands? Other construction techniques?

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  1. ken_hill | | #1

    *
    I'll address the drawer slide part- full extension, ball bearing, ACCURIDE. -Ken

    1. Eric_Svendson | | #2

      *Flush doors and drawers with exposed barrel hinges for the doors.

      1. GACC_DAllas | | #3

        *Flush (inset) doors with cock-beading trim. Concealed hinges. Pull-out lower shelves, and a pull-out trash drawer. Glass doors above, and solid below. Leave a good 40" between wall units and the island.Big sink.Sponge drawer if you want.We just did a kitchen with 30" lower base cabinets. Great counter space. The cabinets were built at 24" to save material, but held off the wall when we installed them.Lots of electrical plugs and under-counter lights.A bread board is a nice touch.Built-in dividers are nice in a few untinsel drawers. Make them removable for cleaning.Tray dividers in one lower cabinet.Paint-grade, no stain. Easy to clean.Melimine drawer bottoms.Full extention drawer guides for sure.Granite or marble tops if it's in the budget.Appliance garage with a tambor door? Do people really use those? We don't put in too many any more.Lots of light.A built-in desk by the phone. People use those all the time.Laminate interiors are great but costly.That's a good start for a top shelf kitchen.Keep the dishwasher close to the sink.However, mine looks nothing like that. I can't afford that stuff.Ed.

        1. RonTeti | | #4

          *Ed about covered it except I would add pull out shelves and 3/4 ply cabs and built to fit the room that is no filler pieces.

          1. Sgian_Dubh | | #5

            *A draining board incorporated as part of the stainless steel sink. Something sadly missing in all American kitchens that I've ever seen, but normal in other parts of the world. Where are you supposed to put pots, pans, and other bits of washing up to drain if there's no draining board? Slainte, RJ.

          2. Chip_Tam | | #6

            *Under-mount drawer slides (like Blum Tandum Series). Many of the better quality side-mounts work fine. They just look ugly.Narrow full-height door next to the stove to store cookie sheets, broiler pans, etc.Drawers instead of pull-out shelves. Why open a door when you don't have to?I'm with Eric: flush doors with exposed barrel hinges. European-style concealed hinges look clunky when you open the door.JMO

          3. Bill_Hartmann | | #7

            *i Drawers instead of pull-out shelves. Why open a door when you don't have to? Why have fixed sized drawers when you can have adjustable pull out shelves.As you can see what might be a feature to one person is not to another. Look at the suggestions, but then do whatever you want.For me it full extension slides and a full lazy suzan corner cabinets. None of this 3/4 pie shape or worse the mickey mouse pull out one shelf and rotate it and then pull out the hidden one behind.And to show how strange I am I have an appliance garage and I use it.

          4. G.LaLonde | | #8

            *I like a lot of the suggestions above. They all sound like my wife talking. I still think the main feature of any new kitchen should be a big, old fashioned pantry where you can stack anything you want within easy reach. Super convenient and VERY cheap storage space. I would not build a new home for myself without one. Ours is about 8' long and 6' wide. I wish I would have made it a little larger. We also have a BIG, DEEP, single stainless sink with drain board....Gotta have a drain board!!

          5. SHGLaw | | #9

            *You can't decide what to do without considering what you're trying to make it look like. Most of the things that are sold as "modern conveniences" don't mean a thing. They seem like good ideas, but is it really too difficult to look into a lower cab to see what's on a shelf?Best advice I can give is to stay away from whatever is new and cool, because a year from now it will turn out to be the avocado green kitchen of the 70's. Go with a kitchen that will look classic and have classic features, and 10 years from now you'll still have a kitchen that looks good instead of a kitchen that looks old.

          6. Barry_E | | #10

            *EdMelamine drawer bottoms? Are you weakening?i "Arn't we supposed to be woodworkers, not maunfactured sluury of sawdust, glue and whatever they sweep up off the floor along with a bunch of toxic chemicals pressed into a sheet workers? "Now where have I heard this before? LOL

          7. bckelly1 | | #11

            *Thanks for the input all! Keep it coming. The 30" counter is an interesting idea. Also like the integral drain board thought and the baking tin cabinet.Plan now is "shaker style" out of local cherry knocked down a few years back in the big NY ice storm. Leaning towards door frames with pegged slip joints. Wife doesn't like the idea of pegs, though. Book matched 1/4" panels. Definately flush door and drawers. I lean towards barrel hinges, the wife towards European hinges. Got a deal on ACCURIDE side mount slides ($900 retail for $50) so it's nice to hear they're a good choice.Should I bother with top dust panel? G. LaLonde, tell me again how big your ideal pantry would be? Wife likes the idea of easy cleaning melamine interior/shelfs, but I'm leaning towards plywood with a cherry nose.Thanks again all. Always useful to hear opinions from people that earn their bread and butter doing this stuff.

          8. RonTeti | | #12

            *Wasnt there a article in FHB discussing this very thing. I mean how kitchen designers go for the latest and greatest and fanciest w/o really taking the requirements or lifestyles of the HO. But as we're all different its interesting to me see so much varied but yet simular needs in the kitchen.

          9. Mongo_ | | #13

            *Colonial/traditional reigns here in New England.First, build the kitchen towards the users...you and your wife. Don't throw in stuff just because it's the latest rage...and don't omit something because it's not. Build it to serve your family's food prep/cooking needs. Screw resale. Build for functionality.Design countertops at heights to serve your physical height. The hell with "typical." Aisle clearances (between island and wall cabinets, etc) so an open island door or an open wall door won't interfere with each other...also, so when either cabinet door or dishwasher door is open you still have room to walk past the open door without dinging a shin.I prefer 31" deep countertops with full-depth base cabinets underbeath them. You've just gained about a 40% increase in base cabinet storage. With deeper bases, you need drawers or sliding shelves. I prefer drawers. I use poplar with through dovetail joints for the boxes and half-inch birch ply for the bottoms. Full-length slides, with over-extentions slides for the upper row of drawers to clear the countertop. I use KV-8400/8405 (100lb rating) for regular drawers and the 8500 series (150lb rating) for the bottom, usually deeper set of drawers that tend to hold the heavy stuff. 28" drawer slides are killer when it comes to storage. Unfortunately, you can't get sturdy under-drawer (hidden) slides in that length. I occasionally cringe when screwing the slides to the sides of the dovetailed boxes...but the slides disappear and become invisible after a while.Deep bases will result in the owner taking up spelunkering to get into the corner base units...I usually install a custom lazy-susan to fit in the corner base. The interior walls of the base unit are radiused to match the radius of the lazy susan so items won't fall off and jamb it when it's rotated.I prefer to not have dust panels with base cabinet drawers.None of those countertop appliance garages. In a functional kitchen, leave the appliances you use on the countertop...tucked against the backsplash. With the deeper countertops you still have usable space in front of them. Appliances you don't use? That's what the extra 40% storage under the base cabs is for.With deeper base cabs, you need deeper uppers, too. The extra 5-6 inches in depth will give you near 50% extra storage in the uppers...though the depth can be a problem if you're on the short side. Remember to leave room under the uppers for bright countertop lighting. The location and amount of undercabinet lighting depends on the countertop you choose. A darker counter will eat light.If a kitchen has high (9.5-10') ceilings, I install a run of soffit cabinets between the uppers and the ceilings. Good for storing seasonal/holiday-themed kitchen items that are pulled out a few times a year.I use 3/4" birch ply for the cabinet carcasses. The carcasses are rabetted/dadoed, glued and screwed. Use real screws, not drywall screws. Half-inch inset sheet material is used for the backs of the boxes, with a vertical "V" groove either routed or dadoed every 4" or so to simulate a beadboard cabinet back. I first install a level base platform that will raise the cabinets off the floor (toekick room), then assemble the boxes in top of the platform.Face frames w inset bead are made from poplar (paint) or species (stain). Door/drawer fronts are frame/panel, and again, either poplar or species. For large paint-grade captured panels, either flat or raised, if wood movement is a concern I'll consider using MDF (sorry, guys).Hinges. I prefer exposed barrel-type...a more traditional look.An undermount kitchen sink lends itself very well to an integral countertop drainboard. Personally, I prefer a kitchen sink with one LARGE bowl instead of two or three bowls. One bowl is functional. In this day-and-age of dishwashers, additional bowls are designer fluff.Design prep is the key. Figure out how you prep food, how you cook. Use a very basic floor plan (showing cabinet layout) and cabinet plan (showing each door/drawer) and pencil in where things should be stored so that they will be near their location of use. Actually measure items and ensure that they will fit in their proposed drawers/locations, etc.Don't forget contertop material as well. It's nice to have a bulletproof stone material near the cooktop/oven/fridge/freezer to hot/cold items can be set directly on the stone surface. Near water, the only wood I'll use is teak. Other than that, it's usually soapstone, sealed granite, or concrete. The teak, concrete, and soapstone take an integral drainboard very easily. Most people want an end-grain maple butcher block somewhere for veggie slicing and dicing. Also a low-set stone slab for pastry.Did a really cool thing...for a big-time pastry maker I inset a refrigeration coil in a small concrete slab. Chilled the slab to keep the fats in the pastry dough from melting. Worked great.It can be just as expensive to build a great kitchen as it is to build a mediocre kitchen. The difference? A thoughtfully designed kitchen is a pleasure to work in, it won't frustrate the user, and it won't require additional expense to correct the original wrongdoings. Your cherry shaker sounds nice. A classic, timeless design. It'll stay in favor forever. Remember...it's your kitchen. Design it for you.Good luck!

          10. GACC_DAllas | | #14

            *Barry,You got me there. I guess it just comes from "what the customers want" syndrome.Plastic lam bottoms would be better.I was weak.Ed.

          11. RonTeti | | #15

            *Mongo ,I agree with you in fact im building my cabs starting tomorrow. I am gonna use about 90% of what you said. Yes is it is up to the user what to put in the kitchen.

          12. Mongo_ | | #16

            *Ron, If only you could squeeze in that last 10%, you'd be perfect! Seriously, good luck with the project.Mongo

          13. Chip_Tam | | #17

            *G.LaLonde's post about the inclusion of a pantry unit is a good idea. If you don't have room for a large one I wouldn't give up on the idea. In our kitchen, we had a fairly long but shallow wall (door trim at one end of the wall gave us only 16 1/2" of depth. I built a lower cabinet 14" deep and 6 feet long and placed an upper cabinet (10" deep) directly on top of the lower cabinet. The overall height is the same as the upper cabinets in the rest of the kitchen. After 8 years of use, I've come to appreciate the shallow depth. It actually holds a lot of supplies and things don't get lost at the back of the cabinet.

          14. bobl_ | | #18

            *I like the idea of a pantry, but yours is not too much smaller than our kitchen, so I'm planning on one of them "pull-out pantry"

          15. Ralph_Wicklund | | #19

            *In my parents home the builder included a shallow pantry, about 8" deep, 4' wide enclosed with bifolds. No wasted space and no items lost in the dark recesses of closet depth pantries.Dad also utilized the stud depth space on the wall beneath the 42" eating bar by removing the paneled facing, applying tracks top and bottom to create sliding panels and building in shelves.

          16. Train_Driver_Chris | | #20

            *great stuff...one dedicated base cupboard with two deep pull out drawers for flour and sugar...if you can, build into one side of your cupboards, a microwave and convection oven. Island if you have with a glass cooktop...below island either pull out deep drawers or basic cupboard for all your pots and pans...water cooler cupboard to hide those god awful looking coolers...upper cabinets like those above fridge, use half lazy susan, if your wife is like mine (ie short), she doesn't have to reach back into the cupboards, she just rotates out the base of the cupboard for access...wine rack, glass rack...just a few ideas...TDC

          17. bckelly1 | | #21

            *Thanks again all. Lots of good comments that give us something to think about. Best of all, a few things we hadn't considered.

          18. JeffCall | | #22

            *Just finished my a remodel of my kitchen - did everything but build the cabinets - and here's a couple of features we put in and still think are great undercounter water heater-no waiting. Lots of lightsmain above sinkabove Breakfast bar (dimer)undercounter (use a touch switch wired to a hinge)BIG hood fan BIG double drawer for the tupperwarefull extension everything full extension pull out shelves on bottom

          19. Greg_Richard | | #23

            *A favorite feature in our 3 year old new kitchen is an over-the-fridge cabinet with vertical dividers for cookie sheets, baking pans, etc. A great way to use that awkward space.

          20. Don_Papenburg | | #24

            *Mongo , how did you work the refer cool tubes in the slab . Did it have it's own compressor ,or hooked up to some other unit? I was thinking of seting up something with water runing through it. Don

          21. Mongo_ | | #25

            *Don, My first thought was to use cold water as well. In samples I made, it cooled the slab...slightly...but took too long. Plus, it was a waste of water.What I do now is run a stainless coiled loop in the slab. The first refrigerated pastry slab I did was over a corner cabinet, so I ran the loop leads out the back of the slab and down the back of the cabinet, into the basement. Where the coil came out of the slab it was insulated al the way to the compressor. The compressor was in the basement, which kept things quiet in the kitchen. The compressor was the remains of a dehumidifier. The wiring was extended from the compressor and ran with the tubing up the back of the cabinets to a twist timer switch. Originally it was a simple ON/OFF switch, later that was replaced with a twist timer switch. Sometimes I've also put in an "idiot light" to show when pwer is ON. In execution it works really well, especially with dark countertops that tend to "absorb" heat. The slab starts to cool down within a minute or two.I've toyed with the idea of laminating it between two pieces of marble, but a well-cast concrete slab gives a fabulous working surface for pastry, so I've never had to pursue it.Also, on some of the pastry slabs, I've inserted measuring grids in the working surface to help roll out pastry or dough to the desired rectangle or round. An easy detail that is appreciated.

          22. Brian_Smith | | #26

            *place gas shutoff/receptacle at back of adjacent cab instead of directly behind oven for easier access/disconnect. we do it for DWs...on the subject of "build to fit" (i'm sure we're beyond the "build" phase :-)...if practical, when installing cabs between inside corners, give the installer/yourself a break and plan a 3/8" leeway. then chose the required drywall thickness required to finish and add on to wall. it's a real tight squeeze otherwise (i had a smile on my face, but my partner installing the cabs was sweating the bullets). thought of this idea afterwards...under cabinet lighting...installation note: shim under cabs to finish floor height and run flooring into bays for DW, compactor,...like predetermining counter height and run material into terrarium window at bottom..."frameless" cabs - account for dips in ceilings in front of upper cabs...prefer finishing with Watco danish oil finish and spar varnish...on exterior walls behind cabs, shoot some expanding foam insde walls around pipes before installing escutcheon plates to minimize air infiltration from the cabinet area...brian

          23. splintergroupie_ | | #27

            *There are some pics in the cooks site of two stainless kitchen sinks, one welded into a full stainless steel countertop and the other into an island top. Exceptionally easy to clean up.

          24. Brian_Green | | #28

            *Dovetailed hardwood drawers and pull outs...yes 2 in the base cabinets...I like hard maple but its getting expensive.Maple or birch 3/4" ply boxes...optional with face frame construction. We dado and use Confirmats, just like a steel dowel. Conversion varnish finish to withstand grimy kiddy fingers.We laminate the sink base bottom with (generally almond or white) laminate...the last thing I want is my sink base cabinet bottom to sag or collapse...did I mention plywood. And there is always a wet rag or leak that goes un-noticed under that sink. Oh, yea, stainless tilt trays instead of false drawer fronts on your sink base. Full height backspashes?? Low voltage lighting. Range hood cabinet to match cabinets. 40-42" uppers, no soffetss, plant shelf (otherwise known as a dust collector). Varied height uppers, accent crown. Furniture quality island.....just thinking out loud.Raised panel end panels on bases and uppers that show. They make a barrel hinge that fits over a euro hinge...I saw it in Wood and Wood products, but can't remember who sold it...Jon Evrum would know.Tandem slides are so smooooooooth.Here's one that we did with granite full height back splashes

          25. splintergroupie_ | | #29

            *Nice, Brian. What kind of lighting did you use over the uppers?

          26. Brian_Smith | | #30

            *hmmm... actually not a bad idea.if upper cabs are well below ceiling and will be used as "pot shelves", one could backlight art objects from low voltage lighting set at the back corner on top of the uppers. would be controlled with a dimmer switch.brian

          27. Brian_Green | | #31

            *Splinter,These were Specialty Lighting versa/lux halogens. Not fond of halogens on top, always worried about starting a fire (I like putting out fires not starting them, I'm a firefighter/paramedic). I order alot of lighting from http://www.cshardware.com or sometimes from woodworker's hardware but they are high on alot of things although their price on low voltage halogen "puck" light is really good. I've been putting in more rope lighting (westek) lately. If were doing cab for a remodel or new I try to get the transformers on top with a switched outlet. Then the switch is somewhere on the backsplash, I've also put a 10%, 50%,100%, touch dimmer hidden on a hinge to set the mood with undercabinet puck lights.

          28. splintergroupie_ | | #32

            *Thanks, i sent for a cshardware catalog. I've had such bad luck with my halogen tracklights with the wire to the sockets melting and the grommets deforming, i'm a little leary of them now. The two types i've installed were UL listed, but i have a half dozen of them sitting in a box now, thinking i'll rewire them some day. Touch dimmer idea is way cool.

          29. David_Giuliani | | #33

            *I'm half way through my own kitchen cabinet construction and finding many of these suggestions comforting because they're part of my installation too. And there's a couple "oops", I shoulda, coulda as well. It's tough feeling comfortable with your decisions when all of your knowledge comes from books, magazines and discussion forums and a few minor projects. It's been a good read throughout, but I was afraid that I was getting carried away with trying to make the best cabinets possible. Before I started my project, I contacted a local cabinet maker just to make sure I was on the right track. After all, he makes a living at it, in a very competitive market. It was the best forty bucks I ever spent. He gave me all of his supplier names and numbers and his personnal techniques for cutting corners where possible. Here's a few of the most helpful suggestions:-5/8" prefinished plywood for boxes (that extra 1/8" is unncessary especially when you're lifting to the table saw)-1/2" prefinished, edge wrapped drawer sides-side/bottom mount roller slides that capture the drawer bottom and sides, eliminating the drawer side rabbet and adding to the interior height.-butt joints and gun finish nails (that's right, no glue, no rabbets except maybe on the uppers) Think about it. The base cabs are fastened to the floor and the back wall and a unified face frame. Where are they going?-pocket screw the face frames-order your drawer and door fronts from a company that does only that.Probably, you high end professionals wouldn't dream of incorporating these corner cutting ideas. If you get paid well for your details, have them efficiently worked out in production, and have years of experience, or the extra time to spend on your own project they may be fulfilling. But I feel the shortcuts will not affect the look or function of my kitchen. They have saved me time, headaches and hastened our move in date.Dave

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