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I’ve got a client who bought a farm home in south France. He has asked me about spending July-August working on a large guest bathroom, some door & door frame work, etc. This house is stucco with open log beams, post & beam door framing, an older tile roof, and lots of quaint features, based on the photos he showed me.
Anyone have relevant experience or knowledge that would be useful in structuring a proposal, planning work and materials, acquiring re-cycled tools (220 VAC, of course) in Europe? I guess one issue is that French contractors are very busy, and my client says they never finish anything. One older contractor won’t even bill him for large chunks of the work he’s already done on the kitchen.
Any thoughts gratefully received. Thanks. — RLQ
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I may be completely out of place here, but I've heard that you need significant,...'ahem',....influence to get plans and building work approved so that codes deemed necessary by the authorities are found, er,.... shall we just say, acceptable. I'm not an American, and I'm no builder, and I'm guessing that you're based somewhere in North America, but I've known several fellow Brits- a mere 22 miles away geographically- that have found French legal niceties and regulations just a tad tricky to negotiate. It's not like moving from Kansas to Montana to do a job at all.
I'd hate to hear that you waltzed in to France all mob-handed, full of zeal, and gung-ho with get-up-an-go, only to sit on your thumbs for 8 weeks in the blistering heat near Biarritz, or somewhere near the Massif Central, all due to some small overlooked 'technicalities' just to work on your tan. By all the accounts I've heard, having a local on your side to 'smooth' the process through might just be the sharpest move your potential client could make. I love France, and the French, but they are certainly different, and they can be as cussed as hell if you rub them up the wrong way, especially in their own back yard. However, with a last name like that, maybe you know all the right lines, angles and moves? Slainte, RJ.
*After having lived and worked in Europe for almost 14 years (most of the time in Germany), I learned quickly that command of the language is important to get you down the road. A smile is a great ice breaker, but with the French (?), they're going to want to see more. After language, the local dialect will be something to pick up too. Familiarity with the metric system is a big help too. Happy holidays.
*Good points all Bill. Get down there in conservative rural Provence gibbering away in some unintelligible foreign language that sounds vaguely English, and talking to timber suppliers, etc., in units of measurement they've never heard of like inches, and feet, miles, tons and pounds, and they'll have you branded as the space cadets from Mars within a couple of hours. I'd missed that point, but then I've been switching between metric and Imperial for years. It reinforces even further my point the need to get locals 'on board' so to speak. Slainte. RJ.
*I have a client who purchased an old manor house in Amboise with the intention of turning it into a small hotel.Their horror stories to me about dealing with French architects (they went through 3), French bureaucrats, French workmen and the French neighbors would fill a very large book.Just one story. Their neighbor across the (very narrow) public street from their only entrance — parked her car there every day, blocking anyone (guests, delivery people) from entering. You'd think that it would be a simple solution — have her move the car. After all, it wasn't her private parking space. Mais noooooon, mon cherie! It took months, involving French lawyers and French magistrates.Now, I like France. I lived in Paris for a year. But you'd better be prepared for red tape like you've NEVER seen before.
*There's bound to ba a lot of French people over there.
*French can't be that dificult to pick up on the fly, after all millions of French kids can speak it.(WC Fields)
*"Those French are so snobby, they have a different word for Everything!" -Steve Martin
*You haven`t mentioned whether you will be able to get a working visa or have some other means of gaining authorization to work in the country. This doesn`t have to be a show stopper, but if you have to deal with officialdom, it can be a problem, particularly in a country as finicky as France.
*You might have a tough time gettin' served cold beer.
*R.Q., Sliante Dubh's points are also correct and Jim is correct too in that you may find more champagne, wine, sherry or who knows what other concoction depending upon the region your're in. Then again if you enjoy tipping a few, that may be another "way in" after hours with locals or anyone else remotely interested in what your're doing. If you can speak any foriegn language, from a country that borders on France, that may be of some help too as cross border language ties and understandings do exist. If you have no language experience, I'd enroll in some type of crash course to familiarize yourself and prepare your head for a swirl of information/culture that you'll have to translate and understand. Knowing the basics, ie-hello, goodbye, thank you, I would like to purchase...., will help.Last but not least, I would stay away from two subjects while anywhere in France (or Europe):1. politics2. humor (humour)You just won't win any kind of discussion/debate/argument involving politics, no matter how strong your opinions, facts or position. Face it, you won't have the "home team" advantage. As for humor, I always heard and firmly believe that the many Europeans joke book is as thick as the period at the end of this sentence. What is funny to us in the states, doesn't cut it over there, even when bugs-n-daffy are dubbed and translated it just doesn't work. A baseball bat wielding cartoon character or a comedian singing about Roxanne infuriates others. That is a bit of what I learned, good luck.
*Prior to my practicing architecture in France for a year, my wife bought me a copy of the French Construction Code. It helped. You can have a copy for free. Gotta talk the talk.http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/citoyen/uncode.ow?code=CCONSTRL.rcvYou may need a Carte de Sejour, permitting you to stay in France, or a Carte de Travail, permitting you to work. Someone in France or a consulate office here can help you determine what you can do with what documentation. Your client would have to have a lot of clout to permit you to be responsible for the work. It's not likely.
*i You may need a Carte de Sejour, permitting you to stay in France, or a Carte de Travail,Bottom line, be ready to be served a carte de crap.b : )
*I had a client who was establishing a vineyard in Australia and bought an old farm which needed substantial work. Had a similar offer from him, and deal was based on time. He covered material, tools, transportation, board and flights. Impossible to provide a fixed price from an ocean away. Did 320 hours in 28 days and then he flew my wife in. Toured for 12 days then back home through Honk Kong for another three days. Fringe benefit was that he was teaching himself about wine, so a forty or fifty dollar bottle of wine with supper every night. If you can make it happen, don`t miss the opportunity.
*This may sound crazy, but if you have the time, go for a weekend in Quebec, cCanada. The french is different, but you'll get a feel for how you'd do in a foreign culture. Stay away from Montreal, go right to Quebec City, and see how you feel and whether you can get by with what ability you have. Just an Idea...
*Regarding power tools: I've never been to or heard of a country where power tools were as cheap or as high quality as in the US. A step-up transformer is more than you want to deal with on a job site, so I'd suggest you look for 220-volt appliances here. Maybe a dealer can special order them at US prices. And point out to the dealer that since you are paying in advance, he needs no better margin (and maybe less) than on the regular stock whose cost he has to float and whose sale is not gauranteed.Better yet, get 120-220 switchable tools (and razor, radio, etc) before you go. I know the Indian appliance shops on the West end of University Avenue in Berkeley have a bunch. And any metropolitian area will have similar outlets for their ex-patriot clientale who bring US goods home with them. Ask foreign shop keepers for ideas.Bring lots of carbide bits and a really good roto-hammer. There are far more things made of stone there they you are used to.But coming into the country with a bunch of power tools kind of blows the "American on Holiday" cover story, if you are doing this off-the-books. Not that most bags are searched at Customs, but they can be.
*You need help for this job, oui? ;)
*Merci, mesdames et monsieurs ! Your comments are all very useful. I think I'll go get that Bosch 220 v. drill I passed up at a garage sale a while ago -- it probably didn't sell, right?
*As an ex-Quebecer, I have to disagree with you on this one....the French spoken in Quebec City, and la Beauce in general (area surrounding), is often almost unintelligible to people in other parts of Quebec.....lots of jokes told about it. And films made in Quebec,in Quebec French, and shown in France, are often subtitled.QC is a nice town, though.
*Are you nuts? Doing anything ANYWHERE in Europe is an endless hassle. Think California combined with Boston times 1,000. Add a sprinkling of French "attitude".... and just think..if it wasn't for my old man they'd be speaking German.....
*> You might have a tough time gettin' served cold beer.Not at all. Cold Heineken and other brands readily available. But with the price of Champagne so cheap over there, why bother? ;)
*Monsieur Dampier, How far removed fromthe old coutry are you? Got any of your keen insight that would be relevant? I'd chime in but all I got is six years of B- french in middle&high school. Besides I drink beer and prefer Spumante to Champagne .Mr. T.
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I've got a client who bought a farm home in south France. He has asked me about spending July-August working on a large guest bathroom, some door & door frame work, etc. This house is stucco with open log beams, post & beam door framing, an older tile roof, and lots of quaint features, based on the photos he showed me.
Anyone have relevant experience or knowledge that would be useful in structuring a proposal, planning work and materials, acquiring re-cycled tools (220 VAC, of course) in Europe? I guess one issue is that French contractors are very busy, and my client says they never finish anything. One older contractor won't even bill him for large chunks of the work he's already done on the kitchen.
Any thoughts gratefully received. Thanks. -- RLQ