Ideas for replacing rim joist damage?
Part of the termite highway included a 7′ section of sill as well as some damage to about 5′ of the adjacent rim joist (chewed sections scraped off in pics). Anyone with suggestions on how to repair the rim joist? (I’ve already got the sill replaced).
The easiest way would be to get it from the exterior, except that the exterior is brick. A couple chewed joists are already out. I’m a littly leery of pulling 5′ worth of joists out just to get to this rim joist. Don’t really like the idea of an unsupported exterior wall.
Before I jerry-rigged this thing, I wanted to know if there was a better way to do it. Or a ‘correct’ way to do it.
jt8
“If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant’s life, she will choose to save the infant’s life without even considering if there are men on base.” — Dave Barry
Replies
Since your thread is getting pushed to the bottom without an answer, I'm posting this just to move it up where more people can see it to answer.
Thanks, it looks like your 'bump' did the trick!
jt8
"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base." -- Dave Barry
I just repaired a similar problem on my house a few weeks ago, although my rim chewed rim joist was parallel to the floor joists (as opposed to perpendicular as yours is) and about 8' long. I had the same concerns as you do, so I called in an architect to have him take a look at it before I pulled anything (other than the floor and subfloor) out. His opinion concurred with mine -- the rim joist was so far gone that it wasn't holding anything up anyway, so just tear it out from the inside and replace the damaged section. The bricks/wood sheathing were effectively spanning the chewed section. I did so, with no problems. But, YMMV.
I don't see how you could do anything more than cosmetic unless you first remove all floor joists tying into the damaged section. Anyway, if they are like my floor joists, they looked OK from the outside, but were hollow in the center. I'd get an architect or engineeer to give the OK on any plan you decide on, just to be safe.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Hi John, from the looks in the pics, that rim joist isn't really holding anything in the vertical load path. You wall plate rests on the joists. The rim keeps the joists from rolling.
If you were to just install blocking tight between the joists (nail the blocking to what's left of the rim and toenail to the joists), it would serve the same function and you wouldn't have to disassemble the whole thing.
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
That would have been my basic approach. Also, it would be a good idea to address the moisture problem that caused the rotting in the first place. Are there weep holes in the brick? If a moisture source cannot be identified, the blocking between the joists could be treated wood for additional security.
If the ends of the floor joists are not solid, it might be a good idea to sister up some floor joists to the next support point, such as a beam, or even to put in eight-foot sections, nailed well to the solid parts of the existing joists.
I think Phil has a good point here. There's no need to replace the section with a solid piece. You generally want to gnaw out the old piece to get the rot out of there, but then you can either fit in shorter pieces or just install blocking.Shouldn't be any need to support the joists during the process if the sill has already been replaced. However, if replacing the sill at the same time (presumably with the joists jacked), see if you can maybe work multiple pieces of 2x4 up under the joists and into rim joist position before installing the sill.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
If you were to just install blocking tight between the joists (nail the blocking to what's left of the rim and toenail to the joists), it would serve the same function and you wouldn't have to disassemble the whole thing.
That suggestion is music to my ears because it confirms the way I was hoping I could do it. I've got a pt 2x10"x12' that was too gnarly to use as a 12-footer, but will make some nice blocking. The old rim joist is only a 1x, so not much to nail to, so I will probably use screws to attach old-rim to pt blocking. Then some of the corner brackets that Mike used (pictured below) to attach the joist to the blocking.
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jt8
"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base." -- Dave Barry
If it were mine or a rental , I would block with treated too . Ive already done it on one Im working on now .
The eaten wood is supposed to be removed to solid wood however so youve got that to do before blocking .
I replaced the sill wth treated and also the joists if it ever happens again.
I sprayed the old band with chloradane which lasts a very long time and covered it up with the treaded blocks while it was still wet and left a good amount dripping on the sill. That passed pre termite inspection to then get it sprayed and under contract. My chemical was longer lasting than what they are using so I got a green light .
I also borrowed a palm nailer which was fun toe nailing the blocks.
Using the metal ties would be dicing it up right as it would hold the joices together just as the band is doing now . Im too cheap to do it on a rental though. For another thing those joices arent moving anyway with the weight on them and surely not with blocking, toe nalied , but what ever . You need the palm nailer for sure if you use the metal ties.
Tell DW I said you needed one if that helps any but I dont want her to come whackin. <G>
Tim
Edited 4/11/2006 1:16 am by Mooney
I sprayed the old band with chloradane which lasts a very long time and covered it up with the treaded blocks while it was still wet and left a good amount dripping on the sill.
That stuff is probably far superior to the stuff I'm using. "BugMax 365" which is supposed to last for a year, but who knows. I haven't looked to see what is actually in it.
I also borrowed a palm nailer which was fun toe nailing the blocks.
Never used one. I'll have to give 'em a look.
View Image
jt8
"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base." -- Dave Barry
Edited 4/11/2006 10:26 am by JohnT8
Better shop now -- they'll be in big demand come Friday.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Palm Sunday was last Sunday.
jt8
"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base." -- Dave Barry
That's not when you'd use a palm nailer.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
There is also a product called boracare or boracide that is less toxic and supposed to do the job.
My termite guy recommended it after we treated for termites in a bath area. It can also be used under decks, etc. to keep them away from my house.
It's recommended on new construction.Pete
That $1400+ I paid to the bug man also bought a 5 year warrenty. I just lean towards overkill. Especially in cases where it would be hard to spot the devils, like between the rim joist and soon-to-be-blocking.
jt8
"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base." -- Dave Barry
Edited 4/11/2006 11:00 am by JohnT8
I sprayed the old band with chloradane which lasts a very long time and covered it up with the treaded blocks while it was still wet and left a good amount dripping on the sill.
Hmmm.. I thought the Feds outlawed Chloradane years ago. I shure killed the critters, but it gets into the groundwater and lasts f o r e v e r !
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Yes it was out lawed years ago.
I had a gallon of it when they stopped selling it . Ive found more at estate sales sitting on a shelf in a glass gallon bottle. I bought some out of date choradane for 75 per gallon with them knowing what they had.
The law was they couldnt market it any more not a limit on when you use it. I save it for just those jobs that I cant reach again. I know it lasts 20 years cause I saw that and a bunch of homes went on by it with out a contract . Of course it takes the right conditions anyway around here anyway. Now if we were in la that would be somthing else.
I used durasban for a long time after that but they finally got rid of that too. Ill buy it if I see any sitting on a shelf in a dusty barn or what ever .
Now its just one year stuff and a feller is actually beter off in crawl spaces to bury a soaker hose around the inside perimeter and treat it once a year from a tank and a rv pump. Lots easiar. The termite comapanies will charge to check it yearly but wont spray unless they find an infestation. Were all on city water so who cares .
Tim
Looks like to me that you've already cribbed-up the floor joists to get the sill in.
Take the same approach to support the load above. Make up a header to support your working span, jack up (just enough to take the load off of the joists) and crib with posts etc. down to stable ground. (secure cribbing for safety)
If the stud wall does not have structural sheathing applied, you can temporarily screw a sheet of sheathing to the inside and brace with diagonals(perpendicular to the wall) to keep the wall from "kicking" out. (prior to taking the load off of the joists)
Might also need to strap a few wall studs to above joists( or whatever) if you're worried about connections at the top plate failing as you jackup.
Cut fastners at joist ends and rim to subfloor, (slide the sawzall blade between rim and subfloor, between joist and rim) if you're replacing the subfloor, make your cut between sole plate and subfloor.
Cut sections of the old rim and attached sheathing out.( there should be a space between brick and sheathing.)
I don't see a way of reinstalling a single piece of rim without more access or removing the joists alltogether, so you'll most likely have to cut rim blocks and install between the joists.
You could try to slide longer sections of rim to the outside of the joists, then block between the joists and draw-in the outer rim with screws,( if you feel the need to have the band conform to the existing framing.)
Good point by the others..... in mitigating any moisture problems while all of this is going on.
Edited 4/10/2006 11:13 am ET by TomE
Edited 4/10/2006 11:21 am ET by TomE
I'm no expert on termte damage, but it looks like water damage to me.
I'm no expert on termte damage, but it looks like water damage to me.
It is possible that there was some water damage, but primary damage on this spot was termites. They marched in between the AC penetration and the gas line penetration. Marched down several of the joists there (even chewed up the plywood subfloor) and right across the house's main beam. The house was vacant for several years, so they had plenty of time to enjoy themselves
Whomever the HVAC person was when this house was constructed (1971-ish) apparently didn't think you needed a drill or saw if you had a hammer handy. Looks like they wacked the AC/gas-line penetrations with a hammer. Which is also how they 'trimmed' a ceiling joist to get a cold air return in.
But in this case, the extra large hole had never been sealed, so it was an open invitation to the termites.jt8
"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base." -- Dave Barry
I'm interested in hearing how you decide to approach this. I've got a very similar situation (termite damage to rim joist behind brick veneer) to correct.
Luckily, the mudsill on mine is a treated 4x8 that seems to be in good condition, although I'm going to have to sister a few joists. I'm considering just installing blocking between the ends of the joists, rather than attempt to replace the rim joist. But if there is a better idea, that doesn't involve major destruction, I'll be glad to hear it.
Good luck.