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Discussion Forum

Identity Crisis

| Posted in Business on January 18, 2004 06:20am

It seems every year or two I go thru this cantankerous identity crisis.  It always revolves around am I a Salesman/Manager or am I a Tradesman who can sell pretty well.

Sometimes I think to myself that I want to get to the stage where I am simply selling jobs and managing them and turning it over to someone else.  However when I do that it tends to turn into rabbit pellets. 

Michael Gerber’s “The E-Myth” The E-Myth Contractor : Why Most Contractors’ Businesses Don’t Work and What to Do About It  for me is just a siren song luring me to dash myself against the rocks of business collapse.  I hear the message he is speaking and understand them all so well but when I attempt to implement his principles I end up in dire straits.

I can earn very good money with just myself and a helper.  It helps me to focus to do only one job at a time.  It is almost like I enjoy the confusion and chaos of wearing multiple hats and juggling 3-4 projects at a time.

Is there anyone else that has had these conflicting ideas floating thru their heads?  How have you dealt with it?

 

 

 

 

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  1. jimblodgett | Jan 18, 2004 06:50am | #1

    I think the most important thing is to listen to your heart.  If you're happy working with your tools and your helper, and make "good money", like you say, I can't imagine why you'd be concerned with what Michael Gerber, or anyone else, says you "should" do.

    They say "...a real business..." and "...get serious about your business..." and all kinds of stuff that implies you aren't every bit as serious and professional about running your business as they think you might be.  Screw 'em.  They can go run their business any way they want.  You got yours to run, and all Michael Gerber really cares about is wether more folks buy his books - THAT'S the business he's in.

    This is not a practice life.

    1. User avater
      JeffBuck | Jan 18, 2004 07:00am | #2

      I'm with U on that one Jim  ...

      I'm as polished a sales guy as there is .... could pratically be that guy up there in the fancy suits spouting all the BS ... I've been thru enough of those seminars ...

      But I came back to remodeling bacause working hands on is what I want to do ...

      If I wanted a "real busniess" ... I'd still be selling for someone else.

      What fun is the selling end of this work if I can't create in wood what I just created in their minds?

      At the moment ... I'm see a real potential to the "one man and a helper" that everyone in the know says is no mans land ... a set up that just doesn't work.

      But .. I think I could make it work for me .... just takes the right "other guy" .. who I think I've found.

      All this talk of having the biz run without you . .... creating something of value you can sell ...

      well ... my Dad made a decent living working for the railroad for some 40 odd yrs ....

      and he didn't have anything to sell when he left!

      I'm pretty sure HE had a real job?

      And ... just what's so wrong with making a job for yourself ... as opposed to making a business?

      I'm starting to think the "business" men don't understand the "artists".

      JeffBuck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

           Artistry in Carpentry                

    2. andybuildz | Jan 18, 2004 07:42am | #3

      Jimmy

              well said bro!

      Life's about what makes you feel good about yourself.

      I personally have always felt that I'd rather make less working for "myself" than more working for someone else.....although its never gone that way. I've always done pretty well. Its all in your attitude. Totally!

       Course you need to know what your doing in this biz but it's also about attitude....about your craft, about your clients, about the world you live in.

      All these supposid self help books are simply another persons opinion...and you're right....thats how "they" make their money. And thats not putting them down because I read and listen to all I can. I take bits and pieces that work for "me" and twist it to fit my personality (scarey huh...lol?) and my lifestyle and beliefs.

      Catch ya at Mikes this summer hopefully.

      Be well

              andy.....

      PS: not to get off the subject (yeh sure) but watch the "Starz" channel on cable if you get it on the left coast. I just finished watching Spike Lee's, "25th Hour". As much as I'm not a huge fan of Spike Lee, I thought this movie was amazing...story line, direction, cinematography...etc etc...It'll be on this month a buncha more times they said. Great flick

      My life is my practice!

      http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

    3. PeteKoski | Jan 18, 2004 11:08pm | #9

      Great advice.  My problem is my heart bounces more than a racquetball in play AND I enjoy both Sales/Management and the Trade equally.

      I'm thinking it is time just to look at it practically and look at the numbers because retirement is not long from now and I dont want to be destitute.  I have maybe 20 years to get where I need to be. 

      We'll see 

       

       

  2. User avater
    DaveMason2 | Jan 18, 2004 09:56am | #4

     Heck Pete, you sound just like me. I'll go 2 or 3 yrs working for myself then go work for somebody else for a year or two only to realize that I was happier working for myself.

      I'm just now in the process of getting my lic. and ins. reinstated so that I can once again start three jobs at once, hire some guys and then have half of them not show up,get calls from customers on Fri. night or Sun. morning, make $5000 one week, $400 the next week and nothing the week after that.

     I think this time though I'll keep things down to one 3 man crew with me helping or hurting :-) when I can. I myself don't mind being the salesman/ manager/expediter. Like you said though , I don't make as much money as I could pushin a crew, but it's what I want to do and it makes me happy.

                                                                           Dave

       

  3. Brudoggie | Jan 18, 2004 07:36pm | #5

    Pete,

     In my short time on my own.( 3 yrs.) I've been, a one man show, a two man crew with a laborer, a one man show working alongside a sub, a two man crew with a more capable partner, and back to a one man show.

     I find my life is simpler, when I'm not worried if my employee is going to be in each day. It is nice to have help at times, sometimes not. Working alongside a sub has worked out very well, but these guys are old friends,and great carpenters. In that situation, I really don't need to be there, but I enjoy building what I sell.

     Financially, it seems that I do the best, with an employee. But I'm not sold on the fact that the difference is worth all the trouble that being a boss can be. When I'm working solo. The projects are usually more complex, such as high end custom trim, or some other unique project , that not everyone can do. On these jobs, I can charge more, and therefore improve my margin. This brings my income inline, with both having an employee, or working with subs.

     Money is all relative, to how each of us live. I don't need a heck of a lot, but by selling enough to stay busy, I do well. Atleast by my standards, which is all that really matters.

     My main sub bid a large custom lake home last winter, while helping me build a home. He got the job, and was the low bidder. The other bidders, including my former boss, were upset, by how much they were underbid. Lots of talk in a small town, such as "he doesn't know how to run a business..." I asked my sub simply if he was making the profit he needed on the house. His response was "Yes".  His needs are less than the others, due to a lifestyle differences, and a more efficient business. Now, he's building a very nice,unique home, at a decent profit, and the others are scrambling to find work. Point is, only you can know what works for you. And doing things in an enjoyable manner is great for your peace of mind.

    Keep on track with what works for you. If time causes the need for a change, deal with it then. Life is short. LIVE GOOD!!!

     Brudoggie

    1. john | Jan 18, 2004 08:50pm | #6

      You make some good points, Brudoggie, but I've got to ask about this

      The other bidders, including my former boss, were upset, by how much they were underbid. Lots of talk in a small town,

      How did the other bidders know how much they were underbid by, or whether they were underbid at all? Did the HO tell everybody? Bit naughty?

      John

      1. Schelling | Jan 18, 2004 10:14pm | #8

        If we are bidding on a major project, we make it a point to ask the owner for the results of the bidding. How else are we going to know what others are charging? It is the least that the owner can do to compensate us for all the work we have put in. In any public project, we and all the other bidders would receive this information without asking for it.

      2. Brudoggie | Jan 19, 2004 08:49pm | #16

        John,

         I'm not sure of the complete details of the bid disclosure, as I wasn't part of this deal. I'm assuming the other bidders simply asked the architect in charge of the design and bidding process, for the results. As others have said, this is common practice in certain situations.

         Or..... we live in a very small town, and this is a very expensive project..... it's amazing how information travels around here at times. I always seem to find out how high my bid was, without even asking anyone :)

         Brudoggie

    2. User avater
      jonblakemore | Jan 19, 2004 07:04pm | #15

      Brudoggie,

      "The other bidders, including my former boss, were upset, by how much they were underbid. Lots of talk in a small town, such as "he doesn't know how to run a business...""

      Just out of curiousity, did your friend pay for taxes and insurance on this job?  If he did then I'm in complete agreement with you.  Good for him. 

      Jon Blakemore

      1. Brudoggie | Jan 19, 2004 09:12pm | #17

        Jon,

         My sub usually builds homes with 1 or 2 other one-man operations. All of them are licensed and insured. He just hires them as subs, similiar to how he works for me. This project, being much larger than usual, he is operating differently. The other guys are full payroll employees of his, for the duration. Much better from the IRS point of view. Also he is able to have comp. coverage with employees. Much safer, than having a bunch of sole proprietors running around the job.

         I think some of my conservative nature may have rubbed off on him. It seems like it would take alot of effort to cheat the system, for a minimal return. I've always believed in running as clean as possible. I sleep very well at night, and breeze through audits. Sure, it may cost me a bit more financially, but my soul stays intact. There is more than enough risk in this business, without creating more for yourself. I decided at the outset that I would only operate in a straight forward way. If I find that I can't compete, by doing this, I will go back to being someone elses employee. So far, I've stayed busy year round. Doing nice quality jobs. I rarely have to competitively bid. Get my price, and am booked out nearly a year ahead. All my work comes from refferals from former customers, or repeat customers. To date, the only advertising that I've done, is the lettering on my truck. Don't wan't to seem like I'm blowing my own horn, so if this comes off that way, that is not my intention. Point is, if you offer quality work, deal fairly with all aspects of the business, including the feds and insurance companies, the good jobs will probably find you. Don't waste time competing with the half #$%es out there. Shoot high and aim straight!!!

        Brudoggie

        Edited 1/19/2004 1:39:06 PM ET by BRUDOGGIE

  4. MojoMan | Jan 18, 2004 09:55pm | #7

    I go through the "identity thing" every now and then also. This is a good time to do it with year-end summaries for tax time. Just turning 50 doesn't help, either. It also tends to happen when I'm very cold or very hot and everything is going wrong. I live in a world of yuppies where everyone makes way more than me. They work in clean air-conditioned places, don't get dirty and their fingers don't crack in the cold. Somebody else pays their health insurance and they have 401K's. They don't have to make quarterly income tax payments and their liabilty insurance doesn't double every year.

    My wife and I juggle two businesses and all sorts of side jobs to stay afloat. It wasn't supposed to turn out this way, but maybe I'm just unfit to be an employee. I'm not much of a boss, either. I've hired helpers, but I'm happiest when I'm working alone on an interesting project, and it doesn't take all that much to interest me.

    I've been very slow to come around on this, but my current focus is to make some money. I'm not talking about making a killing, just a fair profit for the work I do. There's a good piece in the new JLC about this. Many of us are slowly going broke and don't realize it. We work too hard, take risks and suffer the loss of many things others take for granted. Maybe we can pay the mortgage and put food on the table, but how many of us can can pay for decent life insurance, health insurance, dental insurance, retirement savings, college education for the kids, etc., etc. on income from being a contractor, carpenter, or whatever? We compete with low bidders with no licenses, insurance or skills. We drag each other down. Talk to your plumber. Is there any reason they should get twice as much per hour as an independent carpenter, or are they just smarter?

    Please pardon the rant. My New Years resolution is to do my taxes, figure out what it really costs to stay in business, decide how many hours I can realistically work in a year, decide what I want for "take-home" pay for the year and calculate my new hourly rate and try to stick to it. Wish me luck!

    Al Mollitor, Sharon MA

    1. PeteKoski | Jan 18, 2004 11:11pm | #10

      "I've been very slow to come around on this, but my current focus is to make some money"

      Amen...that is right where I am 

       

       

      1. PeteKoski | Jan 19, 2004 12:06am | #11

        I think the impetus that gets me to hiring more people and "growing" is when clients start screaming for me to get to their jobs.  When I get enuff of that in my ear I feel the need for relief.  Voila!  Why dont I hire someone?

        So I do and things slow down after the critical rush and now I have one extra guy.  Problem is it is hard for me to let a good man go <no problem losing the goofballs>.  Now I am carrying too many people and the checking acct. is flushing.

        Just kind of hard to say no.  How does everyone else handle this? 

         

         

      2. skipj | Jan 19, 2004 04:41am | #12

        Hey All,

        Years ago I met a guy who had a cabinet shop that specialized in commercial chain stores (Kinko's, Subway, like that), everything he produced was corporate spec laminated modular stuff. He built the stuff and then warehoused it. A new franchisee would call, and out the door it went.

        His background was in fine cabinet making, he said, then he whipped out an old portfolio and showed me photos of stuff that puts Louis the 14th antiques to shame. I mean exotic wood inlays, curved hardwood faces, trick hidden doors, the works.

        When I picked my jaw up off the floor, I asked him "Don't you miss doing this kind of work?". He answered my stupid question, "Turns out, making money is boring."

        He continued, "I struggled for years doing fine cabinetry; now I have a nice house, that boat I always wanted, we vacation every year, and a woodshop in my garage".

        I learned a great deal from that short conversation.

        skipj

        1. User avater
          Dinosaur | Jan 19, 2004 06:44am | #13

          So does that mean I need to learn to put up (ugh!) vinyl siding?

          I have been saying for years: if I was here for the money, I wouldn't be here.

          I'd be back in town making a 6-digit salary in an A/C'd office. But I'd still have to wade through the city rat-race twice a day--and after twenty-five years up in the hills, I don't think I want to do that anymore. Nor do I want to put my kid through that, even though I want him to be able to deal with it if he chooses to do so on his own. That latter desire will be better served by teaching him to be adaptable and self-reliant.

          When what I'm doing isn't working anymore--by my definition of 'working'--then I'll do something else. But it won't be vinyl siding....

          Dinosaur

          'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

          1. skipj | Jan 21, 2004 05:10am | #18

            I don't disagree with you. This guy had achieved what worked for him. Mass production in his business/fine furniture in his woodshop. It seems that you have a deal that you're happy with, and I say "Great!".

            skipj

  5. ravenwind | Jan 19, 2004 07:42am | #14

          I've workedfor myself for the last twenty years and many of them by myself and the ocasional helper , and as i gained experance the jobs have gotten better and so has the money.and some jobs were big enough to hire several people 3 to 4  but about 4 years ago i had enough work out there to keep 3 guys working for a couple of years  and i was making really good money and i know customers liked our work as i didnt advertise and it was repeat work and referals .

          Whats my point ? all i did was get jobs , order materials, run to lumber yards to get stuff and when i got back to work site somone would say we need more stuff so back id go to the store and what really bothered me most was i never picked up a tool durring most of the time , oh sure I  always had 1000 bucks in my pocket that i could spend on whatever i wanted and i bought plenty of tools and trailers and stuff  but I wasnt making anything but money and i like making stuff. so I stopped and started working by my self for awhile  and it felt better. 

          Now I work with my friend Steve and we split it down the middle and its not bad  there are two carpenters that know what there doing we do nice work , we both have a little background in cabinet and furniture making hes better at some things like layout , building walls decks building and im better at design,  and figuring whats wrong with that wall , door, window, sink,  light and how to fix it. we share expenses and profit and we still take home a pritty good paycheck.  I was good at running a small crew and still doing good work  but i didnt like it and after all i do this because i like it or i wouldnt do it . there ary so many other things out there i could do and did .                     Dogboy 



    Edited 1/19/2004 7:56:50 AM ET by dogboy

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