If I was a carpenter….treads & risers
Customer wants carpeted steps turned into oak.
Current steps and risers are 36″ wide 2x with two stringers only. So we are going to put 3/4″ oak risers in front of the 2x riser and 1″ oak treads on top of the 2x treads.
Since the top and bottom riser heights have already been screwed up by flooring changes on both floors, the changed heights after the oak installation isn’t really an issue (it almost corrects the situtation! , but not quite 🙂
So I am NOT asking about riser/step dimensions.
I am asking about nailing schedules. The 2x treads (with the nosing removed) will be glued and nailed to the stringers & risers. The risers are nailed to the stringers.
So how many nails do I put into the 3/4″ oak riser? What kind of nail?
How many nails into the 1″ oak tread? What kind of nail?
Thanks,
Rich Beckman
If I was a carpenter, I’d know how to do this!
Replies
Rich - Is it possible to get to the bottom of the existing stairs to put some screws in from the back?
If not, I'd probably be looking at 6 or 8 nails on each riser (you said into stringers only?), not as sure about the threads. I'd be a little concerned with nailing both edges and having the boards split because they couldn't shrink.
I'd actually prefer to screw them and plug the holes. Probably at least 6-8 per thread here too.
Never worked on one just like this so take it for what it's worth.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Rich,
I think you should primarily depend on adhesive to keep the treads and risers in place. As long as you do this, I don't think you'll have any problem using about (8) 15-gauge nails per tread or riser.
I've installed hardwood stairs a number of times this way, and I haven't had any problems so far. I used this same approach at my own house, so I see the results every day, and they have stayed completely tight after about three years so far.
Richard,
Lately I've been in the square drive "trim screw" mode.McFeely's took me for $18 a box of a hundred SS trim screws for my stair treads and risers to my porch steps. Ouch!
For interior work it should be a third of that...I love those screws!
I glued everything up too with PL Premium.
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You can save yourself a bundle if you use oak plywood for your risers v.s standard 1x stock. A 4x8 sheet will yeild 12 "good" 1x8 risers at 36" wide and aprox. 3 off grain risers since the grade will be rotated by 90deg. A 4x8 sheet will be $40.00 at Hdepot. Add up the cost of the 1x8 oak stock and everthing will be crystal.
I build stairs on a regular basis and this has saved me more than I can count. If the stairs are open, the ends can be covered with whatever returns you like to hide the plywood edge. If the stairs run between walls, better still.
Since you are scabbing over 2x material, apply an adhesive (polyurethane is common)and nail the treads (16guage finish nailer min.) along the stringers approx. every two/three inches(3 to 4 nails) and every four inches along the top of the risers. If you can nail/screw the bottoms of the risers to the backs of the treads do it.
Lou,I respectfully disagree. I don't like the look of the rotary sliced veneer- you can spot it from a 1x riser from 50' away.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon, your eyes are better than mine. But I understand. I'm just trying to pass on a technic that works well for the most part. Nine in ten customers would never know the differance.
Nine in ten customers would never know the differance.
You're probably right there. I do think it makes a difference if you have a carpet runner or if the risers are fully exposed.
BTW- what part of Chicago are you in? I spent the first 22 years of my life in Geneva.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Geneva! Why on God green earth would you ever leave there. Nice place!
I reside in Chicago's Northside, not far from Cubs Park(3-4miles west). But before you say anything I'm a Sox Fan.
Rich,
I would use 2-1/2" 15 ga. nails with liberal amounts of PL premium, or if the budget allows, trim head screws and plugs.
I would start at the bottom and screw the second riser to the first tread with pocket screws. Are you using a scotia molding?
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
wow ...
this crowd likes to use alot of fasteners!
me ... I'd figures on lotsa big/fat lines of PL premium ...
and as few nails as possible.
at most ... 4 15g's per riser ...
2 15g's per tread.
we're starting at the bottom and trapping the tread with the next riser right?
fit it tight .... let physics do it's job.
more nails = more squeeks.
more glue = gooder.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Rich,
I just got done installing a very similar set up with solid oak treads... Here goes.. As previously mentioned I would use plenty of construction adheasive.. I use 4 standard trim nails in each stringer on each tread.. Here's the kicker.. Start at the bottom of the stairs and after you nail one tread then nail through the riser on the upper step into the lower tread. Be sure not to nail too shallow as you don't want a nail to show through the top of the tread.. It's kinda hard to explain in written form but I hope you get the idea.. Not a single call back by that method.
Oh, you can use plywood for oak end caps if you wanted to using bullnose wrap but I would advise against using them for the entire tread.
Also, the local code in my area only allow for a 3/8th variance from the between all treads.. Something to think about
I sent PETA steaks for Christmas.
Edited 5/12/2006 10:37 pm ET by kcbuilder
Edited 5/12/2006 10:40 pm ET by kcbuilder
Not nail.
Glue (PL), counterbore (small dia.), trim head screw, plug.
If you attach each riser to the tread below it first, and dado the bottom of each tread above, you can have a very strong assembly where the lack of a center stringer won't much matter.
Thanks for all the posts!And everyone actually addressed the questions I asked!!!!!I'm going with adhesive and trim screws for the treads. Thinking nine screws, 3 at sides and 3 in the middle, but at the same time seems like overkill. Maybe only two in the middle?I'll probably just nail the risers with 6d finish. Four or five accross the top.Risers going on before the treads, so the tread is locking in the riser.Several have mentioned screwing the upper riser to the back of the tread. So this would be done prior to the installation? (There is no access after installation).Today I managed to cut the side trim pieces (stringers?) without ruining them! 14' long x 10" wide (ok, laminated) oak, not in my budget to eat that. So far, so good.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Rich
I'm with Buck on the amount of fasteners, let the PL do the job. With all the nails some are recomending I dont know what you need all the adhesive for!
Doug
Rich,Start at the bottom tread, install the second riser, and reach down over the second riser into the space that will be hollow once the stairs are installed. Install pocket screws (holes predrilled) going through the riser into the tread.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
"Start at the bottom tread, install the second riser, and reach down over the second riser into the space that will be hollow once the stairs are installed."The oak risers and treads are going on top of the existing 2x risers and treads, so there is no access behind the second riser.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
You don't need no stinkin' nail holes in your expensive oak treads.
Smear that PL on the backside and hold it down with a pair of concrete blocks 'till it sets up.
Rich,I completely missed that the existing risers/treads were staying. I would be concerned about the potential for more squeaks down the road because you have two plies to worry about, but I'm sure you've considered that.You could still pocket screw the second riser to the first tread before assembly. Then move up the the third riser to the second tread, etc.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Before you begin, I would make sure what you do is within the limits of your local codes. I have personally tripped and fallen on stairs that have unequal treads at the top and/or bottom. The mind measures the riser height and tread width in the first two steps and then turns on the auto-pilot for the rest. If that last riser is not the same...
The requirements of stair construction are very carefully addressed in all building codes that I have used. Even if that inspector will never know about this project, remember that the codes were written for a specific purpose, just like highway signage.