My wife and I suffered some serious sticker shock recently over the cost of remodeling our kitchen. We’re having a hard time justifying $25,000 in cabinets alone – never mind the appliances.
I was wondering if anyone out there has experience with Ikea’s kitchen cabinet products. I have moderate carpentry skills, and think I could probably assemble and install them with few problems. I couldn’t really tell from their kitchen brochure, but are they particle board covered in veneer? Are they just bolted together, or is gluing involved? Do you think advanced assembly techniques (glue and clamps, for example) could be used to create a stronger case from their parts? If quality or ruggedness is a little suspect, do you think some simple reinforcement techniques on drawer corners and stiles (for door hinges) could have any real impact on how long the cabinets last? If the drawer glides seem cheap, could they be replaced with higher quality slides?
I’m basically wondering if the Ikea cabinets, with some slightly enhanced construction techniques, could be a good starting point for a decent quality kitchen, or am I going to be cursing myself in 5 years? All opinions welcome!
Thanks.
Replies
There were some comments here at Breaktime that were positive. The Ikea cabinets appear to be a good value for the money and there are many options.
Their web site is not the best but it's a start.
Another consideration is having access to a Ikea store within driving distance. Although they will arrange for shipping, the cost is very high.
I visited the Ikea store in northern Va. to answer some of the same questions you are asking.
The majority of their cabinetry components are clad.
Many are not even real wood veneer.
They are really big on plastic/vinyl type cladding.
They do have cabinetry doors that are real wood, as well as furniture/cabinets that are made with either solid wood or wood veneer.
Many of their furniture drawer slides seem rickety as would be expected from stuff in their price range, although their higher-end kitchen base cabinet drawers had heavier duty extension slides that felt solid and are rated for heavy weights.
I recommend you request a kitchen catalog if the current one still available. (I filled out a request at the web site before the 2003 issues were published.)
One neat idea I saw in a magazine was using Ikea cabinet wood/glass doors on non-Ikea cabinets that were 'homemade'.
Looked very nice.
Their approach was it was easier to buy the doors then trying to make them.
We used some Ikea cabinets for a rental kitchen that had to come together fast. They are particle board and veneer and are screwed together. The drawers are stapled together and use cheap hardware. Assembly required some re-drilling and fine tuning with a mallet.
I think Ikeas are fine for rentals or a quick budget remodel for resale. They're fast and cheap and do look pretty good with the doors closed. (They're recognizably Ikea but some people even like that). And they'll probably last 5-10 years before they start to fall apart. For my own kitchen I ordered custom boxes from a local cabinet shop and installed them myself. Ordered doors and drawer fronts seperately and built the drawer boxes just so I could say I did. Saved lots of money, got better quality and looks, and it was about as much trouble as installing the Ikeas (except I had to buy a special jig for mounting those euro-hinges). By the time you reinforced a bunch of Ikea cabinets, you would probably end up spending as much for an inferior product.
I installed my second IKEA kitchen this past year, and continue to be a fan. My previous kitchen remodel was 8+ years ago. We like the contemporary look, and SieMatic is way out of our price range.
In the time that elapsed since our last IKEA purchase, the hardware actually got better and faster to install. Drawer slides are Blum, and are easily adjustable. Their accessories for cabinet inserts are extensive and cheap. As for exteriors, it varies: some doors are solid beech frames (or oak) with veneer panels; other doors are painted (we didn't opt for these because of the risk of chipping). You have to get to a store to see the stuff in person to see if it works for you. I'd do it again!
Are they strong enough? Mine are supporting granite countertops!
JoeRat
Ok... here's my outlook on IKEA cabinets....don't
Iv'e been a cabinet maker for 20+ years and have done European(frameless) style, along with framed cabinets and furniture. I am very familiar with the style, the manufacturing process, and the quality of their product. In fact, I have a set of rustic pine bedroom suite in one of our bedrooms. Could buy the materials for the cost of an amoire. Paid $160.00 for a 6' amoire.
The previous posters are right, the drawers are cheap, along with their hinges. I have seem too many defects in their products. The finish of their pieces is nice, but very inconsistant from box to box. The method for leveling cabinets stinks. I have used leg levelers, toes built into the individual boxes, and independent toe kick. I have found that individual toe kicks that are leveled first and then boxes set on top is the best way(my opinion) The assembly is poor at best(my opinion), and installing them is a PITA(I made this personal opinion mild) especially if you don't have ALOT of experience installing frameless cabinets. By the time you buy the cabinets, assemble them, return the broken and/or mismatched parts, addition fillers and toe kick skins,etc, I don't think they are such a good deal. Especially when they don't have everything you need in stock, and you could be waiting quite a while for their next shipment. Who is doing your tile/stone/laminate tops? If not installed right, the nightmare has just begun.
I could keep going on and on, but I think you get my idea. I am not tryng to push custom cabinets. If I thought IKEA's were a good deal, I'd be the first guy to tell you to go for it. Get a few quotes from some local shops and seriously look at the advantages/disadvantages. Also think about the resale market in your area. Some people just don't go for the "IKEA" style
The opinions posted by myself don't reflect the opinions of any or all other posters. It's mine opinion, not theirs. So, go ahead... Bash me.. make my day. :0)
have to agree with you migraine, ive built and installed cabinets for 15 years, everything from mills pride(what a joke they are) to high end factory cabinets like merrilat and wood crest.
ikea is on the same quality level as mills pride, fine if you're selling a house to somebody you dont like
last ikea i saw had drawer boxes held together with four drywall screws, drawer front heldon with just the handle screws, carcases with afew dowels and twist cam type connectors.
the hanging system is mediocre and each exposed end of upper cabinets has to be covered to hide the track
the base adjustable feet are ok but the toe kick just clips on, no way to join at corners at all
quality control is fair requiring some redrilling of dowel holes and screw holes
for bargain cabinets ihate to say it but mills pride at home depot is slightly but not much better, and another manufacturer of "kit" cabinets is NHB available in Canada at Home Hardware stores might also be available in the usa some where
their quality control at least at their canadian plant is excellent and i believe they have a plant in the us as well
steve
"caulking is not a piece of trim"
My advice: stay away from them! They are really cheaply made, the hardware is junk and the boxes are 1/2" thick particle board witha vinyl layer on it. They fall appart in a couple of years - I took down a couple of Ikea kitchens, and was surprised to see how poorly they aged!
Kroozer
Lots to think about. I appreciate all the input. I'm located in the Boston area, so we've got a 4 or 5 hour drive to get to the closest Ikea. My wife is waking up in cold sweats thinking about the expense of new cabinets, so I think we may need to do the trip just to round out our investigations. If she sees they're low quality, it will let her spend the extra money for good cabinets more easily, and maybe she won't lose so much sleep! Ah, the things we do for love.
Thanks again everyone.
As a alternative why not refinish the ones you have? If they are a good quality cabinet in good condition, and your not gonna change the foot print, why not sand refinish the existings cabs, buy new door and drawer fronts and drawer boxes. It will save you a ton of money if money becomes a issue.
Darkworks: No Guns No Butter squilla and the bling bling.
We've debated refacing the existing cabinets quite a bit. Our current cabinets are actually pretty decent quality, but, sadly, the layout is horrible. The dishwasher, drop-in stove and refrigerator are lined up right in a row - no spaces between them. My wife is practically a gourmet chef, so she's constantly fighting the bad layout. The fridge ends up being in the middle of the wall it's on, so when anyone wants a drink, they get in her way.
I've been entertaining the idea of trying to salvage these existing cabinets and rearrange them in the existing space to make it flow better, but I've got the funny feeling that would be WAY more work then I realize. Anyone have any thoughts on trying to do something like that? Is this just crazy talk?
Do you know of a good source for drawer front and cabinet doors??
Thanks. . .
decorative specialitys
1-800-729-7277
so cal, no cal & kansas I think...
Dude where ya been you get all moved in to your new digs yet?
Darkworks: No Guns No Butter squilla and the bling bling.
Edited 6/30/2003 10:21:51 PM ET by RonT
whats goin on, Ron? I bean so busy- I havn't taken any time to dedicate to setting up the new part of my shop... built a cool lumber rack for it tho...
cool dude, I gots to make somethin like that, one of these days. One of my projects for the coming year is to finish the shop (yea and everything else ive started :>) ) good to hear from ya why dontcha call sniff sniff im sooo lonely...:>)
Darkworks: No Guns No Butter squilla and the bling bling.
re - so we've got a 4 or 5 hour drive to get to the closest Ikea.
------
The one in our area in is farther then that.
But it was worth a visit to help answer many questions we had.
Bottom line is we walked out of the store without spending a penny, not even on any of the knick-knacks.
On the other hand, the loading docks were very busy and the store was jammed full of people.
Remember one thing, the display may look good from the outside,but the inside is what is going to make it last for many years. Plus the quality of the installation is the other main thing to consider.
I hear ya! But what I've been wondering is if we could use the shells of the Ikea cases - all those precut pieces that would take me forever to do (hopefully milled to higher precision than I could ever do in my little basement shop) - but then use high quality construction techniques and substitute high quality hardware (hinges and drawer slides) for what they include. I'd save a ton of labor on making the pieces for the cases, and I could beef up weak corners and joints to keep the cases from racking or pulling apart. You know what I mean? Let Ikea do the hard part - making correctly dimensioned, square piece parts - and I'll do the rest the "right" way, rather than the "easy" way. It seems like it might be a reasonable compromise. It saves me time and money, and might actually make the project a little more fun.
Anyone have thoughts on something like that?
Thats an awfull lot of money for cheap cabs. Just keep looking around. Don't know exactly how many cabs you need but for that bread sounds like an aweful lot.
Here's my take on it.......Ikea and Mills Pride are total crap(specially Mills "Pride"...lol) but if what the surface turns you on and the dish's and plates in em' don't pull the cabs down then rock on my brother. Its more about putting your mind at ease.
We builders get kinda tunnel visioned about quality and rock the boat too hard sometimes.
Yep..Ikea isnt the best stuff on the planet and Mills Pride is a joke yet everything has its place within your life.
Aint gonna fall apart by any means....aint all that serious unless it is to you and it sounds like money is more of an issue. So you got tons of great info here. Yer choice bro........Personally....depending on yer age and your zen of building ideas.......Go with what works for you...weigh it all out.
If you have another seventy five years on this rock and little kids and love your house then try and figure out how to do it a bit at a time.
Be well bro
Namaste
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Thanks migraine. Don't worry - you're getting through to me. 8^) I'm definitely more comfortable with the idea of 3/4" plywood rather than 5/8" particle board.
It's funny you mention the Krieg tool. I stumbled across a website this morning that showed how to do faceframes using it. I'm intrigued by the speed and quality that might be achieved with it. It's making me think maybe I should take a shot at doing this myself after all. Now if I could get a leave of absence from work so I could devote a couple of months to this...
Nice pics, by the way.
Thanks again for all the input everybody. I appreciate the thoughtful comments.
Chris
For 90% of applications, I will take a good quality 5/8 particleboard (and they do come in different grades) over ply any day of the week.
There are many other companies (some advertising in Fine Homebuilding), that will sell box parts (shipped flatpack to assemble at your location); they will also ship drawer boxes and doors, if you want, or you can order them form multiple other sources if you don't like what's on offer. Many 'cabinetmakers' are doing just that; they make their money from designing and installing, and have a bigger company with all the gear make the components. Customers may not even know they don't make the cabs in their shop.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
I don't remember the details, but there was a discussion on buying prebuilt doors and drawer fronts over on Knots a couple months ago.
Several of the posters there had had good luck with a particular company. I think it was one that advertises regularly in Fine Wood Working, but am not totally sure of this.
I know you can buy drawer bodies from Rockler, and have seen other WW catalogs that let you order doors and drawer fronts, but forget which ones.
I'd do a search at knots, and if unsuccessful, ask the question there about buying prebuild fronts.
Hey dude where in SoCal do you live. We have enough of us here to get our own fest going. Joe H, me, Jencar and a few others....
Darkworks: No Guns No Butter squilla and the bling bling.
Near Temecula (Closer to Lake Elsinore, but we never say Lake Elsinore... sort of an image thing). Place called Menifee. Won't be living here much longer, I hope. We have the property up for sale. Any takers??? 5bdrm/3bath 2200sq' plus 1950sq' shop/gameroom on 2 1/2 acres. asking $439,000. (tools/machinery not included)
I'm all for quality custum cabinetry.
But...the one good argument I've heard for going with less expensive kitchen cabinets is that by the time they've worn out, you're tired of the look anyways.
My parents have some incredibly well constructed cabinetry in their newer home that were custom build maybe 12 years ago. Not at thing wrong with them. Except they are ugly and don't match any of the new decor and furniture. As such, they're going to have to replace them at some point.
So, I suppose there's two ways to look at it. Do it right, albeit for more money up front, and choose a more timeless style that you can live with for 20 some years, or decide to go cheap and not be against replacing them in 5-10 years.
As you have noticed from most or the replies. Self assemble cabinets are hated. Mills pride and Ikea are laughed at. Every cabinet I ever saw started life as a flat pack of some type. Last top end kitchen I installed had been made by Woodmode and the best thing about it was the finish. materials for the cabinets were just like Mills pride. When assembled with care, the Mills pride cabinets are fine. If you want just use the boxes and get custom doors. Particle board is fine for the box as long as its protected from water spills. I have had some fantastic results with mills pride. If ikea is that far from you I would think twice before using because I have yet to get everything in one trip to Ikea!! The attached is Mills pride in maple.
It sounds to me that you have seen the advertising, there may be an additional factor of convenience and you have already convinced yourself to go Ikea. I believe this maybe a mistake. There are many quite good non custom cabinet manufacturers out there. I believe it would be in your best interest to investigate further.
You want all wood dovetail drawers, with quality glides and hardware. Plywood not partial board boxes. Superior finishes and detailing. All of these things are available, you want the best you can afford, so always ask what the upgraded elements and details are. Many times these upgrades make and separate a quality product from an also ran, and for relative little additional cost. But it's going to require some leg work and investigation. If you do this, I believe your cost savings, quality and satisfaction will be significantly rewarded.
(this is probabaly a silly question, but have you ever used your Kreg jig to make panel doors for cabinets? It's so much easier then my cheap doweling jig, and I don't have a biscuit joiner. Got all the cabinets built and installed in my kitchen from oak plywood...I want to make the top doors with glass inserts, but I'm a little worried about the strength of the pocket screws)
I'm in Burbank, my shop is in our backyard, and my tools are scattered between my truck, a baker's rack in the den, and the storage shed.
Thanks, Jen
I love my Kreg, just got it a few weeks ago, have no idea on the strength vs. dowels but how about you make up a couple test joints out of each and test them outNever be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
Order your doors from someone else. Unless you want to invest in some other tooling and machines. It's just not worth the time. Call 1-800-729-7277. (Decorative Specialties) They might be able to put you in touch with a company that can order doors for them. There in Irwindale, Ca.
Thanks for the phone #. I called a shop once about making some odd sized cab doors, and was quoted $50 apiece. I already have a router table, and $50 will buy a couple of good bits and some oak 1x3...think it's time to get my feet wet.
Jen
Ikea has been in Canada for about 15 years. When I was young and foolish and believed in all that swedish craftsman sh** I bought a bunch of Ikea stuff and assembled it myself - hoping to save money - desks for the office - dressers for the kids - etc.
Not one piece is still alive. Not one. So far as I recall, the bookcase lasted longest - about 6 years. Meanwhile, the antique dresser I bought at an antique store at the same time - then 75 years old at least and now 90 - is still going strong and will be for another 30 years. Ikea has some neat stuff - but none of it is made of wood (or wood like products).
IMHO Ikea is where young kids with their first apartment and small incomes they hope will increase soon buy fashionable - but disposable - furniture. For 25,000 there has to be a lot of better solutions.
Good luck
Gavin Pitchford
"Sail fast - live slow"
I'm curious. You mention $25K for cabinets, but give no details. Then you jump to buying Ikea cabinets to save money. I know nothing about these, but the concensus here seems to be they're nice looking junk.
I assume this is a bid from a local cabinet shop. What wood were they made of? What was the box structure like. What kind of door fronts? What type of drawer construction? What quality of hardware? How many feet of base and upper cabinets are we talking about? What special features were included?
You may be jumping to the cheap pre-built stuff too soon. Changing door styles, wood used in fronts, drawer pulls, ect. could possibly get you quality cabinets signifigantly cheaper then $25K. Talk to the shop about cheaper options.
I could be wrong, but sounds like you had them quote your dream cabinets, then got sticker shock. Give the shop a chance to walk you through some options. For $15K you get X cabinets with X drawer construction; $25K gets your ideal cabinets; 12K you get....ect.
Also check other local cabinet shops. Maybe they'll be more helpful in walking you through this process.
Of course, maybe you've already done all this.
Sorry - I think something got lost in the translation. We're seeing prices in Home Expo and another kitchen shop of $600 - $800 per linear foot for cabinets. We've got about 30 feet to work with, so we're talking about $24,000 for the really "good" stuff - NOT installed.
We haven't talked to any local cabinet makers yet. I think we assumed a custom job like this, done by someone locally, would be the most expensive of all. From what I've read here, though, it sounds like we were wrong about our assumptions and it could be an encouraging alternative. We're definitely going to look into it.
For what it's worth, we're giving up on the Ikea idea. We only want to do this once, and I have no interest in rehabbing cabinets in 3 to 5 years!
Thanks again everyone for all your input. It has definitely helped.
I just wanted to make sure you were dealing with a craftsman. I've made the same mistake before. Figured the local overhead door supplier would be way more expensive then HD, but called him anyway (money was real tight, but the old fiberglass doors had to go before an appraisal). He said he'd get back to me, but didn't for a couple weeks. Had help available one Saturday, so got the doors at HD. Couple days later the door guy calls, he'd misplaced my #. Turns out he sells a better quality nicer garage door for less money then HD does. His installation cost was competitive too.
HD's door is ok quality, but the 2" of insulation isn't bonded to the metal like the one he sells ect., ect..
Of course, had he called earlier he'd have definately sold a couple doors. . . . but. . . Now I make sure to check the small outfits first. Often they're competitive or cheaper then the big boxes.
Good luck with it. Get a quote from the local guy and let us know which way you end up going.
Surprised Jim B. didn't respond to this one, I think 'cabinets is one' of his specialties.
IMHO, IKEA is pronounced 'icky', can't ever envision buying anything there, even thought he grandkids like the 'playground'.