I installed the metal screeds. They were a pain to install. Getting the height where I wanted it and all but I think they should work fine. I picked up the plastic chairs at White Cap. I heard about visqueen here and put it in. First time for me. I spent WAY to much time doing this but I like the work and getting it the way I like it.
I found labor at the church my younger daughter attends. The youth ministry is strong and they are getting money together for a missions trip to Peru. So three to five teenage young men are showing up tomorrow to get the concrete to the side yard in wheelbarrows. It should be interesting.
I used a concrete screw in the wall to hang the conduit and notched the form on the other side. To get the conduit straight i sat a straight x on it. Almost all of the chairs had to go down. On the ones that were real high I slit an X under them and took out dirt. The final height was by pounding them down into the base material.
Edited 10/19/2007 11:28 pm ET by popawheelie
Replies
Congrats. Get the cheerleader girls over there to watch and the young guys will get that concrete moved in record time.
After fussing with those chairs and rails, I'll bet you figured out why concrete guys just use a few sticks and wood for the rail.
jim
fka (formerly known as) blue
Ya, it was a pain but I wanted to try it. Next time i'll use the stakes and a 2x or a 1x.
I can see these guys trying this years down the line because they saw it at this pour. Impressionable minds.
I had a talk with the youth pastor today. He's a good guy but doesn't have a clue. I made sure he knew that at least three of the boys should show up early for a few pointers. He was ready to have them show up when the truck arrived. After getting a little forceful with him, he suggested doing it with redi-mix concrete by hand. I tried to convey how much 3.5 yards were. I told him it how many cubic feet it was. I'm still not sure if he got it. He'll see tomorrow. It should be fine.
you know as soon as the concrete hit them chairs they are going to be gone.
.
Know BOB, Know Peace
I'll know tomorrow. I'm going to be on the pour and make sure that the concrete doesn't "hit" the chairs. I have ramps over the forms in four places so the boys will place the concrete in between the screeds. Then I can push the concrete around the chairs with my rake or my shovel. Once they have some concrete around them they should be fine. I'm not leaving the pour until it is done. If they fill up a contractor size wheelbarrel a 1/2 to 3/4 full, how many wheelbarrel loads will it take for 3.3 yards?
Edited 10/19/2007 11:48 pm ET by popawheelie
Edited 10/20/2007 12:14 am ET by popawheelie
89 cubic feet, 1 to 2 cubic feet per trip is all they'll be able to handle. So 45 to 90 loads.
I am with BB - very carefully place the first two shovelfulls of crete on each side of each chair and up into it before flooding the area with crete
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Probably a little late with this but...you can wire tie those chairs to the 4X4...if you have time.
Check the pressure in the wheel barrow tires too. Otherwise that four tons or so of concrete is going to wear out those boys' legs before it all gets inside the form.
He should let a little air out of the tires. Boys legs will be too tired to be chasing his daughter later in the day .
;-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
He should put extra air in the tires, so the boys are still able to run away when the pastor is after them. LOLMartin
I offer this with some caution because it may be too late to change strategy... but are all those wheelbarrow loads really a good idea? Can all that mixing and transporting keep ahead of that much concrete beginning to set up? Wouldn't a truck and a pump make life a lot easier and eliminate the risk of cold joints?
He should put extra air in the tires, so the boys are still able to run away when the pastor is after them. LOL
If he gets it just right, the daughter will be safe and the boys will be nodding off after the burgers and before the pastor starts up with his tired old "message of salvation" for teens. ;-)
---A survivor of numerous such sermons by ministers of various denominations, during my youth.
So. How'd it go?
can't you rent a concrete buggy for the day. $110. and your'll do 4 yards in about 8-10 trips. You can teach one of those kids how to use it in about 5 minutes. If you can get it back in 4 hours or less it'll be cheaper. Nothing makes a wheelbarrow's tires leak faster than multiple loads of concrete.
It went o.k. the boys showed up a little late with no wheelbarrows they said they would bring. No phone call, nothing. So I was literally running from house to house asking neighbors I've never met to borrow their wheelbarrow. I did get one contractor wheelbarrow for an old timer down the road. I sent a couple of them off to get some form the Habitat site.
The truck was a small batch plant on wheels. I've never used one of those. i forgot to tell him I wanted 3/8" rock but I worked with the 3/4". Trying to find a truck on saderday and schedual the kids was to much so I just forgot.
Teenagers and inexperienced people just have a way of making things harder than they need to be. Instead of starting out with some time to explain things I was behind from the get go. Running around like a chicken with it's head cut off while they were standing around. We ended up with three wheelbarrows and that was plenty.
The boy with me on screed had tattoos and an attitude. He said he had experience with construction. I didn't yell at him but I did raise my voice most of the time I talked to him. He kept arguing with me about where we needed mud. If I didn't need him he would have been gone. I apologized for raising my voice with him but I'd do it the same way again. People like him is why I like to work alone if I can. He was the one who was supposed to bring the wheelbarrows too. Ya, I do get worked up when the work needs to be done right now but that's the way it is some times.
I got behind on the final finish so I just concentrated on the walkway that will show. The rest of it will be inside the shed. The brick wall north of the slab heated it up and it went off to fast for me to steel trowel it the way I like it. The screed wasn't as even as I would have liked because of the kid on the other end of the board and all the distractions.
I sure miss our church in Kansas. It was a big Mennonite church out in the country. I would have had as many good workers as I wanted for next to nothing. they sure know how to work. Once in a while I would catch one of them just beaming while they were working. They just loved to work.
welcome to my world.Know BOB, Know Peace
Have you heard of the Bob religion? I heard some of it on the radio a few years back Funny stuff.
Jalapeno brothers and sister, I am BOB, pastor of truth for the Church of the Holy cow in downtown Robertdale Al. or to those close to me that will be BOBdale. The truth shall set you free. The goodness within will clean your soul, welcome..Know BOB, Know Peace
Here is a radio station you might likehttp://www.thecoast.com/bobinfo/pictures.shtml^^^^^^
busier than a pair of jumper cables at a redneck funeral
You sure you aint Jose Jalepeno . . . on a stick?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1-g05pcccUReal trucks dont have sparkplugs
That post of yours on the day's efforts should be reprinted for all volunteer organizations and DIYers.
Having worked under similar crunch time situations with clueless volunteers, I'd say that you did very well if you only raised your voice with one of them. I'd also say that you picked the best one to clamp down on. And I'm sure they all learned something valuable about what it's like to work for a living,
Edit: I'll admit to canning a couple of younger volunteers under similar circumstances. Everyone who volunteers should understand that when crunch time comes, you gotta shut up and put out.
Edited 10/20/2007 7:37 pm ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
>> It went o.k.
Glad to hear it. Indeed, good help is so very hard to find.
Any pics of the finished product?
"good help is so very hard to find."Especially when you look for it in church instead of where the qualified help hangs out.Pop - excuse my cynicism - and I am Mennonite too - but the church is a place to worship and to help people where they are at - not a place to find workers to come to where you are at.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I need more time to network and find out where the qualified work is. The one qualified guy I talked to I didn't like.
You are right. If I hire teens to do mens work I get just that.
I can be very skeptical as well. We've been looking for a church to call home for a couple of months now. We just went to one this morning, it won't do. We tried to attend the one Mennonite church in town but the doors were locked.
We just got a few more names of churches to check out this morning.
Edited 10/21/2007 2:48 pm ET by popawheelie
Edited 10/21/2007 5:01 pm ET by popawheelie
the secert to good help "Mexicians".Know BOB, Know Peace
So -
You be recommending the Catholic Church recruitment center, eh?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
My older daughter is taking Spanish and wants to attend a Spanish speaking church.
Think of the possibilities? Not those. Work possibilities!
if you can be fluent in spanish today, you can write your own ticket..Know BOB, Know Peace
Especially when you look for it in church instead of where the qualified help hangs out.
Well maybe they dont have a Home Depot in their town!
Doug
The thing I learn about concrete. if you want a house to look like a $200k house, you got to spend $200k. and concrete finishing is not craftmanship. it one step above shoveling dirt and picking up dead animals in the road. Finisher does not care about quality. No body going to tear out a slab so pour it wet, get my money, I wont never be back.people like trim worker are craftman, because if it doesn't look good, they redo it. concrete doesn't get redone..Know BOB, Know Peace
Maybe where you live. I have an extremely good finisher, he has a great crew and they do very clean work, including all of the prep, the mixes they use, etc.
David, I suspect he's building in a town that doesn't have ANY decent concrete work.
The stuff I see here in Austin WOULD BE TORN OUT and the crews would never get a second chance if they tried to finish it like that back in MI.
There is an explantion for it though. The Metro area, specifically north detroit was dominated by Italian concrete and masons who later on became the dominant builders in the area. They scrutinize the concrete work and they don't pay for concrete that isn't finished correctly.
So, for the most part, concrete looks pretty darn good in the Metro Detroit burbs. Around here, it looks like I finished it. It's bad....finished wet, poorly jointed, unevenly jointed, slabs are too big resulting in haphazard cracking, etc.
The ironic thing is that concrete can be such an important statement here....lasting forever instead of getting all chipped up from freeze/thaw cycles.
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
your comments on concrete finishers not being craftsman is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
You're new here, aren't you?
And you don't live near where he works. The finishers HE works with, he probably describes well.
Brownie has been assigned labor you wouldn't accept.
But to support your point, some of the best finishers I've used were lawyers during a slow spell (for them). Really - they put themsleves thru law school doing finishing jobs for the contractor around the campus.
Said it paid more most of the time.
In California!
I guess a lot of people wonder why I critice concrete finisher, concrete drivers and dump truck drivers. Has anybody relies I have to deal with these people six days a week 14 hours a day for 23 years.Most of the crews are African American, that show up late, hour late, no tools no PPE, and then they cuss , holler at the customer, and grab their nuts every three minute. You can say nothing to them because everything racial, they have six grade education and out of ten, nine been in prison, none can pass a drug test and will rip you off.You ask one to do better and you hear "It government work" or " you don't pay me enough" Every one of them as altitudes . You say well you just have a bad crew. we all talking about 500-1000 different people in 23 years.The Mexican crews are really putting the African American on unemployment.we had one black finisher in a Mexican crew that thought he was better and he was going to be boss. Hour later he got escorted to the gate by MP with m16. He though he was better.All I ever ask anybody was "Do your fricken job" just do what we pay you to do. that's all no extra just what the spec says. and there is nothing in the spec that says 8 inch slumps but that another story.Know BOB, Know Peace
Edited 10/23/2007 12:23 pm by brownbagg
Proof what a law degree will do for you!
BOB has a law degree.Know BOB, Know Peace
I guess getting a law degree and fiddling with concrete bring you in touch with your new clients.Know BOB, Know Peace
Brownbagg, I think I would go out of my mind if I had to work with people like that all the time.
It's probably unfair to paint the picture about African Americans as you have, but the facts speak for themselves. You obviously are dealing with the bottom of the barrel of your local African American population.
It means nothing but here is another set of facts. They came from the Detroit News online edition. I don't have the exact numbers, but I'll summarize.
The local Detroit leaders were complaining that there was a significant amount of construction inside the citly limits of Detroit, but the numbers represented by African Americans is significantly lower than what the population would seem to dictate. Detroit is 90% black but there were less than 10% black construction workforce. Hispanics had significantly higher numbers of workers (30% I think). Whites comprised the largest number of workers.
What does this all mean? I ran EOE ads continuously this spring looking for help and advertising that the jobs were inside the city limits on the east side. I did get some black applicants and they had the same scrutiny (not much) as anyone and I offered one day tryouts to everyone and anyone that remotely sounded like they might work out. Basically, I'm telling your that I don't discriminate...but I don't have any black workers either.
I can only guess why they don't apply. It's my theory that many have been raised in families on welfare and they didn't understand that working was a necessary evil to survive. As the population ages, they pass the same work habits on to the next generation. Basically, even if the able bodied men didn't receive welfare, they somehow manage to hook up with a mom, or a girlfriend or a gramma that is receiveing state income and everyone learns to survive off that amount, plus whatever monies they can hustle doing small side jobs and whatnot.
I've wondered myself how the hispanics can figure out how to travel 1000 miles or more to find the suburban construction jobs, but the young black unemployed (40% of young black men in Detroit) can't travel 10 miles to find that same work. There is an underlying reason and the only reason I can think of is that the hispanics do not receive a subsidy if they don't work. They either find work, or they starve. That is a heck of a motivator.
It's hard to talk about this topic without sounding like a racist. fka (formerly known as) blue
Jim, while I was reading your comments and brownbaggs too, I was remembering my years in Florida and the blacks I worked with there, and thoughts kept occouring to me of things to write in colusion.Your last line really struck home, because I had also been thinking, "how can I write that without sounding racist and having a third of the Breaktimers call me out about it?"For about a year and a half I worked on a crew that was at least half black guys. One was the oldest and extremely hard working. He'd broken a hip once walking off a roof, and parts of his hands were pink from having been burned with hot asphalt more than once. He ended up being my partner when we went out on our own.
But he worried about the younger black generation that were just getting into the work force back then.Two other black guys were 5-10 years younger than him and regular everyday guys who showed up and put in a day, but they didn't have the drive he did and never took on extra work.Then the two youngest black workers there were both on work release from the road gang. one had simply made a mistake and was rehabilitating and working out well with a good attitude to the job. His only problem was that he always had a funeral to attend on either friday or monday. Gosh, he had a lot of dead relatives! His buddy from the gang was way too cute and smart for his own good. He was in for rape and claimed he would do it again when he got out. More than once I wanted to throw him off the roof and into the tar kettle. If he is dead now, the planet is better off without him.There was another black guy who came and went off that crew every couple of months. Willy could lay them shingles faster than anybody else - and straight too. But he spent too much time at the dog races to ever get ahead. He was a character for sure, always a joke, but don't loan him any money. I guess he was older than he looked, cause he showed a scar in his calf from a round he caught in Korea.As I think back on all those guys, there was a definite progression of declining qualities as workers from the oldest to the youngest. I can't necessarily say if it was more 'cause it was in that local black community or if it was more generational. Probably both.While I'm remembering that crew, there were some characters with white skin too. old Jim was slow but steady. I think his IQ was about 85 but he showed up every day and kept the same pace shingling winter, summer, spring, and fall. Lived with his wife in a shanty right on the border of the black neighborhood where property values were low. He didn't believe in banks and kept his paychecks in his wallet - never cashing one until he needed money, and then cashed it at the corner grocery store. He didn't drive. Paid another guy five bucks a week to pick him up and ride to work with. I think he had his house paid for, didn't drink or smoke, and had as many as twenty paychecks in his billfold at a time.The boss's brother was a parolee. He was rumored to have killed a man in a bar fight and his brother got him out early. I found this out the day AFTER I got into a fist fight with him. He was alright normally, but he would easily fit a movie role for typical redneck with big tires on truck, flat-top haircut, tatoos about Mom and Marines on arms, beer cans in back of truck, and macho role playing.I was the crew hippy he like d to pick on. Thus the fight. We got along fine after that!The old guy who drove Jim to work was about fifty YO but he looked like seventy from too many years roofing. Memories of him are what made my mind up I was not going to be a roofer all my life. He was always in pain. I guess I didn't get out soon enough.There was a big guy - I don't remember his name. He mostly drove the truck and stocked roofs, took trash to the dump, cleaned up the ground. God, he was big. Tooo big to get down and shingle. He set up the flat roof with materials for BUR. He was so big that one day, I made a smattazz comment that pissed him off while I was up on the ridge of the roof and he threw a concrete block at me - from all the way out at the curb! it sailed right over too, never touching the roof until on the other side bouncing down. Boss man gave him hell for that one. I went hunting with him sometimes. Man, could his wife cook! But I don';t know if she couldn't do laundry or if she had a hard time prying his beer money away so she could go to the laundrymat.Lord, that was a different time and place!
But I bet as a crew, we could lay more shingles bare fisted than pnuematic crews can now day in day out!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
LOL, I was thinking the same thing as I wrote that. Knew somebody would supply the quip!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!