Replies

1. 
   JohnSprung | Apr 23, 2003 01:13am | #1

   Traditional plain old-fashioned "natural" portland cement and lime stucco can be applied smooth, just like plaster.  A lot depends on your climate.  The vast majority of residential buildings here in Southern CA are stucco, but in places where it freezes there may be issues I wouldn't know about.

   -- J.S.

1. 
   CDN_Builder | Apr 23, 2003 01:24am | #2

   Could us an exterior type backer, 1/4" cement board....perhaps.

2. 
   cz | Apr 23, 2003 01:27am | #3

   Sorry, forgot to mention that we're waterfront on the Chesapeake Bay in Maryland.

1. 
   KenRubin | Apr 23, 2003 05:02am | #4

   Don't know what your substrate material is, under the vinyl...... If OSB or plywood or ???   Anyway, the suggestion for a cement board (Durock or similar) as a substrate would be good.  You could then have a Portland Cement stucco siding applied..  Same with the wooden dormers...  In any event, you would need to make certain that you have a water / moisture barrier between the substrate and whatever you decide to use as an exterior siding.

   Good luck.... Ken in Savannah

1. 
   cz | Apr 23, 2003 05:28pm | #5

   Thanks, Ken. I appreciate the help. I think it's just wood under the siding. It's a little brick house built in 1963.

1. 
   BillHartmann | Apr 23, 2003 06:07pm | #6

   Look at the fiber cement products (Hardy, Certainteed). In addition to the more common lap siding, they make sheet products (4x8, 4x9) that come in untextured and several textured styles. Even if you use someting else on the side walls that would be the perfect material for the dormers.

2. 
   cz | Apr 25, 2003 01:36am | #11

   How do you deal with the seams when using the 4' x 8' panels on a larger area?

3. 
   KenRubin | Apr 25, 2003 06:30am | #13

   Use a special tape and sealer (specs provided by panel manufacturer)... Will never show if applied correctly and will not crack !!! I've inspected many homes with this mix and they are dry and look good.....  It also comes down to how the windows are installed.... The backer rod and caulk used between dis similar surfaces.

   As for using screws to attach foam.... No,,,, there are specific attachment hardware for foam... Each mfg  Dryvit, Sto, etc recommends something specific..

   Ken in Savannah

2. 
   SRDC | Apr 23, 2003 08:20pm | #7

   I agree with Bill about exploring some of the cement based products. It can be a lesser expensive installation and a nice looking durable product. Hardi not only makes nice siding materials, but they also make 4x8 panel products which come in a sanded finish to simulate stucco.

   If you really want stucco I would recommend a 5/8" - 7/8" sanded finish stucco. I would not recommend any EIFS product because of your salt environment. EIFS products can be used in that environment but only if installed by someone who really knows what they are doing. Not just any stucco contractor can install that material. It is prone to leaks if not installed by someone who has extensive experience can be a disaster, and a maintenance nightmare. I think you guys doing residential work in the NC area of the country know what I mean.

   Make sure your stucco is seperated at any edge with proper bead work. This has become a common failing over the years with stucco. Stucco is just like any other building material, it has a different expansion/ contraction rate than most adjacent materials so cracks will develop where it meets windows, doors, corners, etc. If the bead work made for each specific joint is not used the caulk used to seal the joint will just move with the material it best adheres to and not do you any good. Also remember to put stucco over flashing and not flashing over stucco. Keep in mind the stuff is cement based and readily soaks up a certain amount of water.

   Use a paperbacked metal lath. You might be able to find a vinyl lath if you look around enough. The stuff came out several years ago so it should be available. In your area you should be able to find it. Compare the cost of the metal and the vinyl lath to see if there is nay cost savings. If you sub out the work ask the sub if he would recommend the vinyl lath and then most importantly if its more economical ask if he will warranty the vinyl lath. Metal lath is a fine product, but you know that vinyl will never rust. Make sure that in the salt environment that you are using vinyl corner bead, expansion joints, etc. Generally the metal lath in the field is not affected by salt intrusion because it has a considerable amount of stucco to protect it, but corners and joints are highly susceptable to salt intrusion. Those areas have the least amount of stucco (in some cases none) to protect them so they rust either from direct exposure or from water absorption by the stucco. I have seen several cases where the metal bead work had to replaced with a vinyl product.

1. 
   JohnSprung | Apr 23, 2003 09:15pm | #8

   Galvanized steel chicken wire in old stucco seems to be holding up extremely well, looks like new when I demo it, even though it's been there since 1926.

   -- J.S.

1. 
   DaveRicheson | Apr 23, 2003 09:29pm | #9

   USG used to make cement board based synthetic stuco product. It used Durock as the base with a f/g mesh tape on the joints and then a full f/g mesh over the field covered with a polymer based finish like the EIFS products. I don't know if they still make it, but when I looked at it several years ago, it looked like an upgrade from the EIFS, but not as far up the chain as real stuco.

   Have you any experience or knowledge of it?

   Dave

2. 
   SRDC | Apr 29, 2003 09:04pm | #14

   I can believe it. They don't make building materials like they used to. Greater production demands and the desire to reduce production costs has really made a huge difference in the quality of materials you get now.

   The permeability of that stucco probably had a little bit to do with it as well. Stucco used to be made with only 2 parts sand instead of the 3 parts that is typically used today. Depending on the stucco contractor 3 parts sand may have been used but the portland was increased by 1 part. Plaster used to be the same way, just 2 parts lime instead of the 3 sometimes even 4 you find today. It was a harder finished material, overall better quality and much more durable than what you find today.

2. 
   cz | Apr 25, 2003 01:33am | #10

   Thanks for the info. What happens if I want to use the 4' x 8' panels on a larger space? How do you piece them together without a seam showing?

3. 
   fdampier5 | Apr 25, 2003 05:41am | #12

   I have a similar situation, I'm building a timberframe/stone house but the dormers (all 7 of them)  should be stucco.  (stone just won't look right that high up)  What I intend to use is dryvit.  a stucco like product that is applied over foam.  Since the skill used to apply stucco is nothing that happens overnight, I intend to cut foam panels to fit , Put the foam in place to check for fit.. then set it down and apply the dryvit and then using screws put the "stucco" back up.. (it will be easy to touch up the screws)

      

1. 
   DaveRicheson | Apr 30, 2003 01:39am | #15

   I ahve worked on a couple of building that used the Dryvit system. It could only be purchased and installed by certified Dryvit contractors. Has that changed?

   The panels were spot glued to the CMU walls in my two projects. There was a f/g mesh tape applied to the seams and a bed coat of the polymer/sand applied over that. Next came a f/g mesh that covered the entire field and another coat of polymer applied. The final finished color coat was applied then with what ever texture was speced.

   I don't think you would want to run a screw threw it after working that hard to get it finished. Another warning to heed on the stuff is that it is almost impossible to get a patch or repair to blend in to the original finish. We had to exercise extreme care to avoid damaging any of it, or face the possibility of having to refinish an entire wall. Don't get near the stuff untill it is fully cured, 24 hr in 70 degree weather and much longer as you go down to the don't apply temp. of about 40.

   After saying all that, I am wondering why I am using it on my new home :-)

   Dave

1. 
   fdampier5 | Apr 30, 2003 01:55am | #16

   I seem to be able to get stuff that isn't available for the average do-it- yourselfer.  For example I have wirsbo heat tubing installed by,  ...me!

     Buying a five gallon bucket to try seems reasonable to me.  If it doesn't work, no big loss. I'm reluctant to do real stucco myself,  That is a skill that requires too much talent for me to attempt..

1. 
   DaveRicheson | Apr 30, 2003 03:58am | #17

   Let me know how you trail run turns out. I know I can do finish the stuff. I got a few lessons and a little practice on those two projects. I just can't buy it.

   Dave

1. 
   fdampier5 | Apr 30, 2003 05:54pm | #18

   Unfortunetly, I won't be gettin to that part of the job untill later this summer..  hopefully by then I figure out how to post pictures.

2. 
   DaveRicheson | Apr 30, 2003 06:54pm | #19

   No sweat, I won't be getting to that part of my house for many more months. Likewise on the picture posting thing.

   Dave