Hi,
I have been waiting 6mts now for the company I hired to finish my ceiling.
Background info: Had a new roof put on in Sept./2008
new engineered trusses, strapping, and drywall installed. The man hired to do the job was not a qualified plasterer. Found that out after the fact.
To make a long story short… I was in to talk to the manager the other day about the ceiling and he told me not to expect “perfection” because there were issues with the roof way back.. hmmm That is total bull
.
&
#160;
I have pictures of the roof going up from start to finish. The drywall sheets look like they were installed properly. Seams look ok. I told the manager the plastering was substandard. That’s where the problem origionated. I have had pros look at the ceiling 2 mts ago. They said the problem could be solved by doing a complete skim coat over the entire ceiling.
Now this company has had 4 attempts at perfecting the ceiling. There was some improvement but you can still see what I’d call ripples in the ceiling.. shadows. The ceiling should look smooth after having a primer coat and 2 coats of ceiling white applied. I just don’t think they feathered out the seams well enough. For heavens sake the manager admitted that the men were up doing the work in insufficient light.. making excuses for the poor workmenship and then saying how he was sending the men back up to paint the ceiling one last time.
I went up on Wednesday to have a look at the finished ceiling. I don’t think I should have to pay them 100% of their asking price for a job that they were contracted out to do that is not up to snuff. I am not trying to be difficult. Remember this was a brand new ceiling. So why the poor plastering job?????????? No way they can blame it on the roof. I”ve seen better in the restroom of the chicken diner!
Now I have to get back to the manager and decide how I’m going to settle my account with the company. If that’s the best job they can do where does that leave me? They are trying to squirm there way out of this by saying the roof is at fault for the imperfect paint/plastering job.
I am sure it’s the plastering job that’s at fault and it doesn’ matter how many more coats of paint you apply that’s not going to get rid of the “shadows”. Companies usually subcontract out.. but to hire a roofer to do your plastering.. after letting him go they hired other men to try and fix his mess…. Funny how they haven’t revealed who these men are and whether or not they have the proper credentials. I have told them in writing that I wanted a professional plasterer to correct the faults with the newly plastered/painted ceiling.
Wanda
Replies
Are you talking about drywall finishing or a plaster veneer?
If what you are calling ripples or shadows are waves caused by the trusses or sloppy strapping it is not a very easy fix. Are you talking about your whole house?
A lousy finishing job would be when you see the seams or butts. If the ceiling is wavy it indicates the strapping was not leveled up properly or maybe spaced to far apart.
If you've had a pro evaluate the job as a poor one you have a good reason to hold money, I guess.
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
hi ruffmike,
The 3 bedrooms, bathroom and hall ceilings were fine. It's only the livingroom ceiling that needed fixing. So how can it be problems with the roof if that's the case. The main ceiling in the livingroom is long .. 16 feet wide and 25 ft long (rectangular)
When I am talking about "plastering" I'm actually referring to a drywall finishing.
The pro we had evaluate this ceiling a few mts back said the butt joints were fine. It was the seams that were visable. He recommended a skim coat. (of the entire ceiling) Figured that would take care of the problem.
Before installing sheets of drywall (gypsum board) isn't it best to use a level to check to see that the ceiling is flat before proceeding with the taping and mudding? I'm pretty sure the strapping was spaced evenly. I will have to go back to my pics.
Wanda
Wanda,
Do you have pictures of what it looks like now? That might help us see what you're talking about. Vince Carbone
Riverside Builders
Franklin,NY
In reality what Sphere is saying is probably the correct way to go.
Sometimes you can only get so much out of someone, and you get stuck at a stalemate.
I would say get a pro drywaller and have him skim out the living room. Out here that might cost a thousand bucks. It is the room you spend the most time in, you should be happy with it or it will bug you forever.
Then the problem becomes comparing the repaired ceiling to the other rooms, which may then not fit the standard
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
In the last pic, you can see that the framin' switches direction.
I wonder if they turned the board there also.There's only so much a finisher can do with a bad hang or frame job.More pics would be helpful.On a service call a customer complained about a humped joint on the M brm ceiling. What he showed me was actually a shadow in the center of the board, two feet from either joint.I tried to tell him this, but he insisted that I "fix" it.
So, I laid a thin 12" wide stripe of mud where he wanted it, the painter came and repainted it, and we never heard any more about it.
Hard work is damn near as overrated as monogamy.
- Huey Long
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a big crown where the trusses change direction.
Zano's right also. The man doing the strapping should have straightened it out, although it sounds like the same crew did the whole job. Personally I would have used RC1 channel and shims.
Like we used to say to generals that complained about wavy walls
"Sheetrock don't lie".
If we'd see a glaring hump we would mention it, but otherwise we were blowin' and goin' pieceworkin' m***** f*****s. ; ^ ) Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
This is not exactly on the subject you are talking about but ---
I'd never use plastic as a vapor barrier in a ceiling. If the roof leaks (or should I say when the roof leaks) you want to know it. I pulled down a ceiling once to find a swamp up there. All kinds of stuff growing, insulation totally soaked. Must have been several gallons of water from a number of rain storms up there for months. The only reason I found out is because of a hole in the plastic made by a screw that missed it's mark maybe 15 feet from where the leak was. If it weren't for that screw hole or if the leak had been smaller I wouldn't have found out until I had major structural damage.
I think the plastic is required by code in Canada
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Is it just me, or do these truss centers look mighty wide - like 32" oc?
I am looking at the first photo and comparing what I assume is a 4" octagonal electrical box to the truss / strapping spacing.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I feel your pain. But unfortunately you may crossed the dreaded line and are now a "CFH", Customer From Hell. And they crossed your line and are the CFH , but Contractor From Hell.
The more they do, the more they can't help but feel it won't be good enough, and you expect to find more to not be satisfied with..one feeds the other to a no-win situation for both of you.
Hate to say it, but either try to live with it, or get someone else..life is short..you are just inviting more stress. They obviously can't appease you, you need some one who can and start the process over.
Not assigning blame or fault here, just calling it as I see it. There is process that has been discussed here called "D-Mix" and an advanced search using that word will provide the particulars, but the deal is a like a skim coat of sorts that is rolled on and then back trowelled..it hides a multitude of sins, easily.
But given your location in the NE , I understand skimming is common, so maybe that route is your best bet..get a new crew that does that, and only that..back charge the CFH, and relax.
This could drag on forever, them screwing up one thing after another, move on, lick your wounds and get satisfaction.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Another thing I've seen is when the first coat of latex primer makes contact with a decent finish job the thicker mud shrinks some. We have found we have to get it finished to a certain quality point, prime, then touch up with bare light bulbs and prime again - for a good slick finish. (off subject sorry) I don't like to see plastic under the drywall. About the only places (other than bathrooms) I have seen moisture/mildew problems have been with plastic under drywall around here in Illinois and other guys confirm it. This is logical when you see how quickly and easily a drop of water forms on the stuff laying on the ground, etc. I like to see R board under there - vapor barrier & insulation, covers all the wood, never be sorry if you ask me. It would be hard to get R board to form a drop of water on the surface. It disperses the cold/heat from either side unlike plastic.
I've walked away from jobs when the framin' was covered by plastic or paper. If I can't glue my board, then we're talkin' Mo Money and no guarantee.
Hard work is damn near as overrated as monogamy.
- Huey Long
The window is too near the ceiling thus every little imperfection will show. It's called "photographing"..the difference between the joint compound and the drywall. You should have skimmed the entire ceiling, then use a good PVA primer and 3 coats of good paint.
Trusses even with strapping is not straight and the framer should have checked for the level of the ceiling, not the drywaller.
Without seeing the finished ceiling it is hard to say if the taping was lousy. Sometimes a nice looking ceiling looks not so nice when the sun enters thru lots of windows.Happened to me, I hired a taping crew,was satisfied with their work. After painting ,drywall primer 2 coats and one coat of finish I did not like the looks of the ceiling. Walls were fine,coated the ceiling again. Still looked like shadows when the sun was shining thru. This was a large addition and the one room that I had a problem was an open office.The rest of the addition and the main house that was rocked looked perfect.I waited til blinds were installed on the 10 windows,this took care of the problem.I used the same brand primer and paint ,American Pride on the entire house and chalk this one up to ,WTF.
mike
Hi Mike,
Luckily for me I was able to get in touch with a professional DW on Sat. He is going to write up an estimate and get back to me. I've decided to settle my account with the company. I will not be payng them for that ceiling job.
After taking an 8' level to the ceiling and testing out various areas I'ts a no brainer. The job is full of deficiencies. when you put the level up to the ceiling you can see as much as a 1/4" gap in some areas.
This DW would not settle for a job like that. The drywall is coming down and I will hire this man to do the work. As soon as I hear back from the company I will give this guy the go ahead to start the ceiling. Should be done in a week. I've also hired him to drywall the hall. My god! after 6mts. it has all come down to this. I knew way back I should have asked them to take down the drywall. It isn't easy to fix a f... up plastering job. I can't imagine why a company would hire a roofer to do plastering.
Wanda
After taking an 8' level to the ceiling and testing out various areas I'ts a no brainer. The job is full of deficiencies. when you put the level up to the ceiling you can see as much as a 1/4" gap in some areas.
The trusses being up and down is not the sheetrockers fault. Since someone decided to put strapping on, they didn't shim the up and down trusses.
Who do you think is responsible for shimming/straightening out the ceiling? It's not the sheetrockers job. If the sheetrocker saw that the trusses were up and down they could've said something before they went any further. This way the carpenters could've come back and fixed the ceiling.
Joe Carola
Edited 3/9/2009 3:26 pm ET by Framer
Joe, she's had a couple other threads this winter on this. Same company on the whole job, roof, ceiling, and some doors and trim. The owner had the roofer doing this job. The crown was hung up-side down, with gaps big enough to stick a pencil into, and they butchered a lot of other stuff.
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Sheetrockers get paid to do just that...sheetrock. They are not framers, painters or trim carpenters. Finishers get paid to finish. They can only do so much to a bad hanging job (who can only do so much with a bad framing job).
How much attention did you pay to the framing? Did you take an 8' level to the strapping too?
I'm not taking any sides here, but it doesn't seem like you are giving this guy a chance to correct his work. Many states have construction defect laws that require the HO to allow the contractor to make a good faith effort to repair. You cannot just get someone else in to do the work.
I have no dog in this fight, just trying to educate you that you can't just inspect the finish and wonder where it went wrong. If you were going to be that particular, inspection of the previous stages would have been prudent.
Hello Mike,
The Roofer did the entire job. from start to finish .. he put up the roof, installed the insulation and vapour barrier, nailed up the strapping, hung the drywall and taped and mudded the ceiling plus primed the ceiling. This was all done by the same guy.
The DW got back to me this evening and after seeing the pics I send him and evaluating the ceiling in person on Sat. His diagnosis... Way too much PLASTER! He did mention the strapping. But after seeing the pics of strapping he's convinced that the plastering job is at fault. Now when he takes down the drywall he wiill check to see that the strapping is level before he proceeds.
I do realize that drywallers are not responsible for improperly installed strapping nor are finishers responsible for incorrectly installed drywall . You have to have a solid fondation to begin with. Painters can't be held accountable for imperfect plastering ..
The man responsible for this disaster was given AMPLE time to fix his errors.
A good job starts from the bottom up!
Wanda
Is that a single truss going one way with truss hanging off the with hangers going the opposite way And is that where the bad spot is?Joe Carola
You guys are starting to see it all too, eh? She got taken by a hack outfit, no doubt.She may be a bit particular, but her red light only came on when these guys started screwing her.but she's smart enough to still have the money in her own pocket
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Yes,
I still have my money in my back pocket! They were only given a small 10% deposit back in July 2008 before they began work in Sept/ 2008
Piffin They were going to begin work on the roof last July but due to the weather and the fact that they were waiting on trusses. Things got behind schedule and the roof didn't get put on till Sept 1st/2nd. Ever since then we have been waiting for the interior work (drywalling/painting) to get done. Yes, it has taken them this long... Time is ticking. I have flooring picked out and ready to be installed. These guys are holdling me up. I have been nothing but patient. Look where it has gotten me so far.
Make a long story short.... I got the call from the company today. They gave me an estimate of $750 That's the amt. I can take off the final bill for the ceiling. Labour taxes in. Now the guy I had go up to give me an estimate said he would charge anywhere from $1500-$1700 to do the job. Quite the discrepancy hey!
Company .... $286.68 for materials tax included. $450.00 Labour = $900 That seems like they are nickel and diming me.
My guy will phone back tonight with a written estimate and I told the company to write up an estimate. We will have to carefully go over the 2 estimates to see why there is such a discrepancy between the 2 estimatees.
Wanda
Hi guys,
Thanks Piffin for taking the time to search through those posts.
I have a couple of ?'s for you concerning the roof.
#1. Can you tell from looking at the pics that the trusses are up and down and should have been shimmed? (Joe Carole mentioned that in his post # 117517.14)
#2. Who is responsible for inspecting the progression of the work the customer or the contractor? Should I have had an inspector come in to inspect the roof before letting the roofer install the sheetrock and insulation/vapour barrier? I remember asking the had guy this ? and he assured me it wasn't necessary and he had checked the roof and it was fine.
Now how would you define microlam?
Should I be concerned not only about the strapping but also the trusses?
Wanda
Hi,
Here are a few pics I managed to dig up from my collection. PIctures of the new roof before any insulation was installed.
Wanda
Wanda,
I just noticed in this picture that you don't have a double truss that holds up the perpendicular trusses. You have a single truss with a 2x6 bottom chord and what may be 2-2x6's nailed to the truss with the perpendicular trusses hanging off those. You can also see how that truss with the 2x's nailed to it goes uphill with the strapping.Joe Carola
OK, I see more here in these photos.in this one
http://forums.taunton.com/n/docs/docDownload.aspx?guid=0FA183CD-2BDA-4FF6-AFC1-7D2CB5ACD452&webtag=tp-breaktimeyou can see the answer to Joe's question. There is a tripled truss to hang the alternating direction ones off of. That is good. I think he was concerned that they may have shorted you a bit and hung off a single.But this photo also shows a major sopurce of your problem near the FP there. See how they broke all the joints of the strapping on the same truss? and how short those are there. It is a basic principle that carpenters learn right off the bat is to change location of those joints so stress is spread across a larger area. By conentrating the joints, they concentrate the stresses and amplify problems.In other words, they caused this finishing to be bad by doing amateur carpentry there. On the opposite side of the trippled truss, they could have run beyond with strapping also to spread loads and stressesSo far, I can't see much more of the nails in strapping except that most of it does appear gun nailed rather than roofing nails, but still only one nail per connection ....still downloading last three photos....The only other Q open in my mind is what kind of nails were used for the hangers to secure the alt direction trusses to the tripled. If you have that opened up again, the hardware is stamped right on it which nails are required. Somebody on site might be able to identify which were used. sometimes hacks use roofing nails for that too since they are easy to get in.
But think about it, roofing nails designed to resist some minor wind load s in less than a square foot area used to hold hundreds of pounds of loads....not good. I am suspecting this because the guy was a roofer first. He had roof nails in his pouch handy. He used them to nail up some of the strapping....He was ignorant which way to hang crown molding. He was ignorant how to place strapping. So he may very well be ignorant what nails to use in the truss hangers. you may be able to help educate a hard working ignoramus and better his life.
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I haven't seen anything one way or the other to make me have an opinion on the trusses. The guy might have been a perfectly adequate roof and framing contractor.I would be very concerned about taking a good look at the strapping when this SR is replaced. Id it is as appears, the strapping is hung with only a handful of roofing nails and while it is unlikely to fall down on your head to hurt you, it will also not be likely to hang tight forever, so as some of it comes loose while other spots hang tight, more and more waviness will appear. There is also not enough strapping, so the SR will sag between the ones that are spaced too far apart.I hang it nor more than 16" OC and nail with two 8d ring shank nails at each connection. Could be two 6d at each in some cases, but not for you.Reason I call your nailing roofing nails is the large heads showing in your recent photos of plastic and FG insulation before SR went up. At least half the nails were those large headed nails and in only one place did I see a pair of nails.Inspections?IMO Both. The HO needs to protect himself.
The contractor needs to protect his reputation
The public official needs to look out for genral safety and values of housing ( tax base)
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Hi Framer,
The area near /just in front of the fireplace is the worst. The area near the Large window happens to be the best. With all that light shining through that part of the ceiling is perfect. It's just before you gett o the fire place where the rest of the job deteriorates.. as you look down towards the backwall.
wanda
This is where I was talking about in my last post. You can see where the double truss and the other trusses that go perpendicular are higher. You can see your strapping going up hill where it nails to the bottom of the double truss. Maybe my eyes are wrong and it's hard to tell from the picture.Joe Carola
Yowsah!I was just counting bottom surfaces and didn't notice that trick. I saw the sloppy strapping and tilting uphill and wondered why that truss might be seated higher and all, but had myself thinking it was a tripled truss.
This company better be ready to show the truss plant design engineering to show that scab job is kosher, That one might be moving from excessive load under varying snow loads all winter and causing her troubles.
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http://forums.taunton.com/n/docs/docDownload.aspx?guid=3399AE16-44CB-4492-AE39-4F1E8EBA90C3&webtag=tp-breaktimeWait up - this one makes it appear there is a sister truss behind that one. and higher seated. I can't tell for sure.
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Hi Guys,
Now I wish I had of read your posts before speaking with him over the phone. But now after reading your posts he's basically saying the same things you are. There is a problem over that fire place. You're probably right he skimped on nails"nails". I think he's going to run the drywall in the other direction. Pretty sure he mentioned that the joints weren't staggered.
I have printed out the last 8 posts and I have sent my guy the same 8 pictures I posted here on the form today. I'll go over that with him. Just wait till the drywall comes down. What mistakes are hiding beneath all that strapping and insulation????? Did I mention that this guy is a general contractor who works commercial and residential. (new home construction, harwood/ceramics/plastering/painting Int. finishing/windows/doors dectks drywall and siding)
My brain can't take in anymore. I've taken in enough info for one night :)
Wanda
wanda I remember your saga from two earlier threads going on thru the winter now. Didn't you originally want to be moved in by Thanksgiving?It will help bring the other guys up to speed if we can link to all those photos already brought into this. You were treated wrong in this job. Normally I'd say live with it, but after seeing what I see in these recent photos, I can say that the sheetrock should have never been hung to begin with. They did a terrible job with the strapping and that is likely to contribute to the ceiling continuing to get worse as time goes by.First, the strapping is a system to even things out to make SR smoother. It should be installed at 16" OC to properly support the SR. yous is in some places and not in others. Not by a long shot. It was sloppily laid out too, The framing changes,( which is probably what the guy meant about roof problems) but the strapping could have been done for consistency to deal with that problem. That is a main reason for using strapping, but they botched it up, just like the crown, the wall paper and everything else they touched there. I also see that the strapping is nailed up with only one nail in each connection to the joists above, and that many of those nails appear to be only roofing nails. I would not expect that nailing schedule to hold the weight of the sheetrock up there tight for a lifetime because it is the wrong nails for the job and only half enough of them. Not only was there a problem with using a semi-skilled person for the finishing, but the framing to back it up was poor too. even a top notch finisher would have a hard time getting that job right, given the hidden lack of quality there.I'll see if I can search up the other threads and photos already posted here.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
One GC I worked for told me that he put mini-blinds or shades in all his houses - saved a lot of call backs.
Hard work is damn near as overrated as monogamy.
- Huey Long
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=112678.1&maxT=14
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=115464.1&search=y
http://forums.taunton.com/n/docs/docDownload.aspx?guid=558044E1-D6D3-4742-86A8-FC2EA10B3205&webtag=tp-breaktime
so here are the links for the other guys to catch up on things if they aren't familiar with the history of the job. tho you synopsized it well enough in the first post here. I think the third link is the latest photo of the work as they were trying to patch it the second time, before they skim coated.
BTW, Somebody owes me a drink for the time I spent in Prospero Purgatory pounding the streets and ducking copper pipes threads to get them to give up the info! LOL
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Joe, I think I see a part of the problem there. After missing that one call, I kept studying the last photo I relinked. Trying to see what it was that I knew was wrong there...
see that one truss sprayed red and marked TG-4 two ply?
it is one ply where it sits and has a 2x6 bottom chord and gabled end web pattern. The other red I see is one the one I mentioned that seems stitched to the one the alt direction trusses hang onto.
So it appears to me that the two red marked ones with 2x6 bottom chord were intended in the design to be a twin to hold the attached trusses. The guy got things out of order or ignored the design plan and then when he discovered his error, he decided to make up for it bu sistering another 2x6 to the back side of the bottom chord.
So the alt trusses hang from the wrong truss and the design was ignored and then not fixed properly. The two that are tied together, probably move differently under load so the whole structural frame is sighing up and down there and giving the sheetrock a challenge.
Structurally, it would probably never fail catastrophically, but because they did such a sloppy job with the strapping, they are amplifying things instead of spreading it out to be un-noticeable.
I'm sure glad I'm not the "contractor" on this one! I'd have to wait for whatever the judge let me have for pay, or I'd have to start by getting an engineering repair order from the truss plant.
I wonder what Boss Hog would have to add in this thread. He is probably itching to get back to work and turn his mind back to trusses again.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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calling your attention to the last 7-8 posts in this thread and photos of the trusses and comments from Joe and myself. See what you think.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I think this not was meant for someone else.
No - for you. Discussion about trusses in previous few posts.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
This is gonna be interesting, if there are two of us with almost identical screen names...
Every day I get up and look through the Forbes list of the richest people in America. If I'm not there, I go to work [Robert Orben]
Yes, I guess so.
Could you maybe fill out your profile? That way when one of us posts people can click on the name and figure out which one of us it is.
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I just checked, and I had completed it.
I just checked, and I had completed it.
This is all your profile says.
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Joe Carola
Edited 3/11/2009 9:39 am ET by Framer
Framer is right. If you clock on my name above this post, you'll see my picture and some info. If you click on your own name it will bring up your profile. Right under the word "Welcome" there's a link that says "Change profile".That's what I was asking that you fill in, so people can tell us apart.
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian [Robert Orben]
done. I didn't know there were two different profiles.
Hello,
Latest update.. The guy from the company phoned this morning. Wanted to know the name of the guy (contractor) who did up the estimate for me.
He didn't stay on the phone for long. Said he'd get back to me maybe Friday. I've made it clear to him that I want this bill settled as soon as possible. I feel he's just wasting more time. stall tactic. What's the hold up?????
Should I be concerned about the trusses? Bit too late now isn't it to take a roof off. (say there was a major problem) I will get the contractor to crawl into the attic and check things out. He can fix up the strapping.
I need this out of my life!
Wanda
Edited 3/11/2009 2:05 pm by Wanda200
Should I be concerned about the trusses? Bit too late now isn't it to take a roof off. (say there was a major problem) I will get the contractor to crawl into the attic and check things out. He can fix up the strapping.
It's not to late at all.Wasn't there a framing inspection? Once the sheetrock is off call the inspector and have him look at it to tell you if they are alright. Show him the set of plans. If there is a problem I wouldn't say the roof has to come off.
There are ways to fix it from inside by adding/bolting....or whatever the truss designer might have to say. Did an Architect draw the plans? If so call him and ask him to come out and look.
You can't just cover it back up again if there is something that needs to be fixed at that section we're talking about.
Joe Carola
How serious of a problem it is would depend on the review by a truss engineer. There are ways to beef up a truss system from under the roof once in place, but would have to be specified by said engineer. Looks like Ron is giving some professional curtosy to the guys on the ground who designed it by staying out of the way.But one thing to keep in mind is that the engineer who designed the trusses and who looks at them, will be viewing with load bearing in mind - whether it will fail structurally or not.He may or may not be considering the way these move in cold. There is a phenomenon called truss lift, and your alternating pattern may make that more of a problem. The situation you are dealing with re keeping a flat ceiling will still have to be smoothed with proper strapping after you are assured that the truss system is sound.
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If there are in fact structural problems, it's sure better to deal with them now rather than after you're living in the place. If the drywall is gonna come back down, I'd suggest calling the truss company and asking them to come out for a look. (Don't have the framer call - Do it yourself) If there are in fact any problems they should be able to spot them with no trouble.
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Hi guys,
This has certainly been a renovation from hell. The saga continues.... went up today to meet with my new contractor only to discover other "deficiencies". A potential fire hazard!
I have yet to pay my bill. the men I hired to redo the ceiling began tearing down the drywall today in the main room. wow! Now it appears the fireplace wasn't secured. They didn't install any brackets and the only thing supporting the elbow (metal tubing was a small chain attached to a screw.... ) My new contractor told me the support wasn't adequate. He now has to install a proper bracket. (this is slowing down the work) When we took a closer inspection we could see the insulation (pink fiberglass) hanging down and there was one area with no insulation and no drywall. That helps explain why the fireplace wasn't giving off enough heat. But it's the debris around the base of the shield that's got me riled up. bits of broken drywall and wood. Talk about a fire hazzard! No doubt that came from the old roof when it was taken down. I wonder if the flasing is up to code..hmmmmmmm
Anyways a picture is worth a thousand words. I will post a few pictures of the fireplace when I get them downloaded. That way you'll be able to see what I'm talking about. Make a short story long.. I'm lucky this was discovered now. Had I decided not to take down the drywall and start over I would have never discovered this "fire hazard". My contractor also pointed out that the hole cut around the metal tubing wasn't up to code. There was no 2 inch gap all the way around the metal tubing. This information was clearly written on the metal elbow. Very shoddy work.
So now the contractor has to examine the roof from outside. He will also crawl into the attic to check things out. Hope I'm not in for anymore surprises.
I found out why the plastering wasn't up to scratch in some areas. If you look closely at the picture you will see that that metal hangers on the truss are hanging slightly below the chord of the other truss. Plus there is a piece of strapping perpendicular from the middle of the fireplace that wasn't nailed in place. The end of the strapping was just hanging down resting on top of the brick fireplace. Hard to see that from looking at the picture. Is it that time consuming to scew a nail into a piece of strapping. Those guys took short cuts! They also skimped on their nails. Only one nail attaching the end of the strapping to the joists. You guys were right about that.
Wanda
Wanda, the amount that is hanging down, should not affect the drywall as it was attached to strapping.
Did you have the trusses inspected while the drywall was down?
What effected the drywall was the way the strapping all ended on one truss instead of radomly ending. By doing it this way you cause any imperfection in the height of the trusses to potentially cause it to telegraph in the drywall.
Edited 3/23/2009 8:50 pm ET by frammer52
Hi Framer,
Yup, the joints needed to be staggered.So the guy who installed the strapping did a shoddy job. Nothing that can't be fixed though.
Framer maybe you can tell me how you would fix a chimney problem. According to code There needs to be a 2" clearing all the way around the chimney pipe. Notice the guy didn't cut out a circle he cut a square opening. How can this be fixed without damaging the shingles? reciprocating saw?
Here are some pics of behind the fireplace. You will see lots of debris that was just left around the metal shield.. if that's what it's called. On the left hand side you will notice that there should have been a sheet of drywall installed over the insulation. The only thing supporting the metal tubing is a small chain just screwed to a piece of wood.
Wanda
You need to hire a person that installs these fireplaces. Is that an insert?
I know you need a thinble or something like that to go through a roof or wall.
ps. The original framer is Joe, this is the other Frammer, Dave. Just do you don't mix us up>G<
Me thinks you have a big mess! I have installed hundreds of roofs with trusses and they always required bracing, which I haven't seen.
Have you had the truss installation inspected yet?
I meant to tell you, I was of the opionin that you were the customer from ..... that we all despise, and after seeing your pictures, I have changed my mind. This contrator was into shortcuts and not into building you a good livable space! I am sorry you have to go through this.
If you are happy with the drywall guy you hired, it might be in your interest to ask him for references of a general contractor to hire, an d pay for on an hourly basis to inspect , and then correct the defiecencies!
Hello Framer52,
Didn't realize there were 2 Framers.. thanks for letting me know :)
The guy I have now is a general contractor. Residential and commercial who has been in business for 15 yrs. He was the person who pointed out the deficiencies with the chimney. He recommended we get the mason in to have a look. Unfortunately, the mason is in Labrador city right now. But he knows his brother so he'll see what he can do.
Problem is the trusses were never inspected before the drywall went up. ( I trusted the company to take care of all that) I did give the contractor a copy of the truss plans. I will have to call him later this evening and see what's up.
We called the company and had the foreman go up to have a look. He didn't seem too apologetic. Looked it over and just said the best I can do is see if I can come up with a "shield" for you at no cost. I"m sure our contractor pointed out all the deficiencies to him. The man just doesn't give a damn. They have a responsibility to make sure things are up to code.
I am going to have to go to the Better Business Bureau. I don't want this happening to some other homeowner. This company should not be in business.
Wanda
shield" for you at no cost. >>>>>>>.
Not familiar with this term, are you?
Wanda,
How did all this pass inspections?
Joe Carola
Hi guys,
Yes, I'm wondering that myself.. how did it pass inspection???? That is the ? of the day.
Dave, you were wondering about the bracing.. What type of bracing are you referring to?
How are the trusses attached/secured to the roof? what type of fasteners are used?
I asked the new contractor about the trusses. Mentioned the 2 ply possibly being out of position. He said the trusses look ok. I also gave him the architecual drawings from the truss company. He said he'd check for any problems. He will go up on the roof and take a look in the attic. A mason will come in to have a look at the chimney.
Need you guys to take a look at these pictures and tell me if the gaps in the sheathing are normal.
Wanda
Hi again,
It appears that the chord on one of the trusses is damaged. Probably not enough to compromise it though(you can see that pic in the previous post.
Unfortunately, I can't find the picture I was searching for . Oh well, these will have to do.
As far as inspections go.. I was just assuming the company would take care of all that. They would carry out the necessary inspections. Not so in my case.
Wanda
Call the inspector and tell him to come out and inspect everything since this must have been closed up without inspections.
Whoever you got to do the now work has to stop right now and let the inspector go in there. They can't continue until you have your trusses inspected also. Wasn't the permit hanging in your window?
Joe Carola
The damaged truss looks to me like it needs some attention. But it's hard to tell for sure because there's a shadow halfway over the damaged area. I'd suggest calling the truss manufacturer to ask them to take a look. Their butt is on the line too.
Corduroy pillows are making headlines.
Wanda200 look at the tag on your pipe for the chimney. See if it has a mfg name on it. It was probaly Selkirk if you go to their web site. http://www.selkirkcanada.com .
They should be able to help wit you chimney.Also as others have said those trusses
are not braced.
HI guys,
Hate to ask a stupid ? but what exactly do you mean not braced? What seems to be out of place? I need to know more so when I go to the truss company I don't sound like an ignoramous.
Wanda
Hi,
Just finished reading an article online about truss erecting and bracing.
Here's what I discovered.
Trusses have very little strength laterally
Temporary truss bracing is required until trusses are all secured.
Top chords are susceptible to lateral buckling
Possibility that all webs could buckle in the same direction, so permanent cross braces should be added to the longitudinal stiffeners at each end of the building.
Similar permanent longitudinal stiffeners and cross-bracing are required for tention web members (8ft) and longer. In case of stress reversal(wind uplift)
Now the trusses are attached to the ext walls using framing anchors or bolt thru truss.
The article also mentioned a knee brace .. is that temporary or does it have to stay in place.
I also read that webs provide bracing as does roof sheathing.
Wanda
"Temporary truss bracing is required until trusses are all secured."
True - But since there's plywood on your roof you're OK.
"Top chords are susceptible to lateral buckling"
Only until the plywood is fastened down.
"...webs could buckle in the same direction..."
Given the fact that you're trusses aren't terribly tall, it's entirely possible that they just don't need any web braces. But there's no way to tell without reviewing the design of each truss.
IIRC you said you got drawings of the individual trusses? If so, is it in PDF format so you could post them here?
I'd be happy to look them over for ya.
"permanent longitudinal stiffeners and cross-bracing are required for tention web members (8ft) and longer. In case of stress reversal(wind uplift)"
I don't know where that came from - I've never seen that language in the 20+ years I've been doing trusses.
In my experience, web braces typically aren't a huge concern except in extreme cases. And your trusses are not anything really out of the ordinary.
BTW - It's important to keep in mind that web bracing and erection bracing are completely different and unrelated things.
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hello BossHog,
I only have a photocopy of the plans which I gave to my contractor. I'll be talking to him over the weekend so I will ask him about the bracing just to make sure things are ok.
Wanda
Gees my heart goes out for you. sounds like the idiot you did my concrete floors, I think he dragged his dead mother out of the grave to trowel. I should have jackhammered the whole thing.
Where in Canada are you?
Is there a public stoning for the original contractor planned? I have some nice sharp one's I can give you.
Wanda,
Why do you keep avoiding my questions about getting a building inspector in there?
Are you going to let this contractor do whatever he wants and close up your house and trust that everything is fixed and gets done right and come back here and complain if it isn't done right?
Do you even care about getting permits and inspections, or are you trying to avoid this and do it illegally?
How could you not care about this getting inspected and everything getting done right THIS time?
Are you going to say that this new contractor is getting the permits and the inspections? If so, the permits should be in your window already. Are they? If not, tell the contractor to get the Monday. If it is up to the contractor, why did you do that and not get them yourself so that YOU know that you will get the proper inspections and the inspector will tell you what's wrong with your house.
Trying to guide you in the right direction and don't seem to want to listen and protect yourself, why is that?
Joe Carola
The trusses should have 2x4's from the gable back to the first truss.Also 2x4's along
the bottom. Your truss company usually provides drawings for this. I would go to your local lumber yard and see if they can have their truss mfg inspect these trusses for
you. Also did the info I gave you about the pipe help?
Hi Wanda,I'm late to this thread. I remember when you first posted last winter.I'm no truss guy so I won't comment on any of that. The one thing that nobody has mentioned is that there is not one shim anywhere in that field of strapping. When I strap a ceiling it is with the intent of making it flat, and that usually involves a big bundle of shims to achieve that. I work almost exclusively on very old, very crooked houses, so it's admittedly a different thing. Maybe with new construction and trusses one expects the 2x4 strapping to pull things into line on its own.One thing I've done on newer construction is strap with resilient metal channel instead of lumber. Resilient channel will give a little and even out the irregularities if they aren't too great. See the attached pictures.The opening around the metal flue in the plywood might be able to be cut away from below with a multimaster. Otherwise, peeling the roof around it to fix from above is not that big of a job.Those gaps in the sheathing look pretty normal from here. You actually want a small gap to allow for expansion of the plywood without buckling.Steve
Edited 3/27/2009 11:06 am by mmoogie
Hi Mgard,
I checked out the link you gave me. I think It's best to hear what the mason has to say about that "weird" fireplace.
Wanda
The chimney should probably be supported where it goes through the roof sheathing, and by braces if it goes above a certain height (check the manufacturer's instructions). Do you have a pic of the chimney above the roof? At the ceiling plane there's sometimes an insulation shield that's required to keep the ceiling insulation from leaning against the pipe. You don't have a ceiling there, but you might want to rock around the pipe (with 2" clearance), install the proper ceiling fitting, and insulate it. Otherwise it looks like you'll have cold air behind that brick facade.I'm not an expert, just someone who read all the manuals when we put one in :).
Wanda, Wanda, Wanda....My Dear Sister Wanda....heavy sigh....Mixed review here, but I don't see any reason to pay this original contractor unless a judge tells you that you have to.Where to begin...I guess first to put your mind at ease - that nothing that can't be corrected, but the more I see from your photos, the more I see wrong, so you really need the services of a home inspector even if you pay him yourself. Based on what has unfolded here in your winter saga and the pictures posted, I have little doubt that there is more wrong that I haven't seen.gaps in the sheathing - there should be gaps of about 1/8" to 3/16" but never more than 1/4" shingle manufacturers equire that any gap of 3/8" or greater must be patched with metal well nailed at edges. I cannot tell from your photos for sure, but it does appear than one of the gaps is on the order of a half inch or so.The chimney flue - several things. The support is not a chain but a support strap. In some cases, this is enough. iN others it is woefully inadequate. Does the installation allow the pipe to swing side to side? or does it support the pipe and not allow movement?As the chimney flue passes through the ceiling plane, many jurisdictions require a firestop spacer. Some do not.
Here is the theory behind it - if a fire starts in the firebox area in the lower 8' behind the brick wall, the way you now have things configured, that fire can easily spread intot he rest of the attic space and have the entire roof on fire before a sleeping person in the next room is aware of any trouble. so a firestop of sheetrock or metal or a combination is used to prevent air flow up from this chase into the attic at the same plane as the ceiling sheetrock.The BRICK WALL - I only now see what sort of wall that is - a single wythe unsupported veneer. a true brick wall would have a minimum of two wythes ( layers) of brick making it at least 8" deep. What I see is 4" deep making it a veneer only. A good kick could knock it over. A minor earthquake could knock it over. A high heat source could crack the mortar and cause it to fall over. It has NO lateral strength at all. It is a pile of bricks balanced with gravity in line holding them inplace. The correct way to build this fireplace chase is to frame a wall with 2x4s and sheathing, then lay up the brick in front of it, attaching the brick veneer with masonry ties to the structural support wall behind it. I find myself wondering if there is a foundation system under this pile of bricks capable of supporting the weight of it. If not, the floor will sag, then the wall will lean, and eventually fall. Will it fall on somebody? or just make a big noise and pile of dust? You need a PE engineer or a capable experienced inspector to see what the extent of your worries is in this regard.back to t he chimney flue - none of that plastic should be vaguel;y able to cantact the piupe. The FG insulation should be 2" back from it as well. That is the purpose of a shield.A good roofer can remove the jack flashing and cut the roof sheathing back a bit further to maintain that 2" space up there and re-install the jack with little trouble. Most of the time, that would be the least of your troubles, but since you will be renting this place, you have little control over how safely residents use the fireplace. Most inexperineced users will overfire it, IMO.Unless there was a lot of kindling on the firebox, that debris was normal and no concern, other than for cleanliness. What I saw was all masonry debris, not combustibles, and not a danger.Truss bracing - I do see bracing there, but I do have the concerns I expressed earlier and that you can only determine with a visit from the truss maker.Roof edge trim - has got to be some of the sloppiest I have ever seen, but it it is covered with AL or Vinyl, I suppose it is adequate, or will be. But as shown in the photos, I could do better when I was 16 YO.I feel for yah - sorry I just now saw this thread come up again. my radar must have been tingling - I was thinking about your case a few days ago.
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Hello everyone,
Where do I begin...
Let's just say you guys are right. I got on the phone first thing this morning. Called the electrician, mason and contractor. Then I phoned the truss company.
I went over the architectual plans with the man over the phone. At first he was telling me that everything looked ok. But I stressed to him I needed someone from the company to come in and inspect the roof. He went on to tell me that they usually don't carry out inspections. Not in that municipality. Imagine that! Anyways I told him I had some concerns concerning the trusses and I had some pictures (same ones I posted on the forum) I could send him via email. So he gave me his email and agreed to take a look at them. He'd give me a call back.
I'm just after getting off the phone with the man from the truss company and he said he would be in touch with The company that was reponsible for installing the roof. There is a problem with the roof. Some truss or girder I believe he called it seems to be missing. He's going to go up first thing tomorrow and inspect the roof. The ceiling(s) might have to come down. He assured me I would not be reponsible for those costs. The company who hired the roofer will cover those costs. But apparently everything else seems fine. He said the pictures were fantastic!
So Joe I followed your advice. The roof will be inspected. All other renos have come to a halt till the trusses are checked out. My god for all I knowo the shingles might have to be torn off the roof.
Carry on Roofing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 7mts and counting. The roof was installed Sept. 3rd 2008 I was hoping to have all the interior work (trim, flooring and painting/drywalling) complete by May. I'll be lucky if I can go up for the May 24th weekend.
The mason returns on Sat. and will meet with the new contractor and myself to go over the concerns I have with the fireplac.The mason is a qualified wet/dry mason. Very well known in the area. Don't worry Piffen The mason willl check things out. I've always said that fireplace needed support why else would it be sagging on one side. I remember going over all that with 2 masons a year ago. But I never realized that the"fireplace" if you can call it that had only a facade (veneer brick) in front of it. It's not actually sealed in on all 4 sides like most chimeys. That has been unsupported for over 30 yrs. The Cabin/bungalow was built in the early 70's. It was obviously pieced together.. add ons over the yrs. (extra room)
The most shocking thing about all this is the fact that inspections are not mandatory. Even building permits are a joke! At least in this municipality. I think the regulations/buiding codes are more strict in the US.
I'll be sure to keep you up-to-date. Can't wait to hear back from the truss company tomorrow after they complete their inspection.
wanda
inspections by officials are variable in both countries, being a local concern more than national.I have only worked in areas where authorities performed inspections and enforced codes for maybe 20% of my working life. And I generally do work that goes beyond code requirements, which are mere minimum guidlines, not the gold standard.Wish you the best.BTW, I was under the impression the former contractor had built that brick veneer wall. Sagging on one side? Sounds like no foundation for it there.
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The truss company is correct that they don't typically conduct "inspections" of finished installations. But I frequently am asked to go look at roof trusses that have been installed when there are questions about something. It might be better if you don't call it an "inspection" - That may put them more at ease.They will be very concerned about their long term liability. But if the framer was their customer (the one who cut the check) they may only be willing to tell HIM what's wrong, not you. Guess you'll have to see.
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Hi guys,
Here's the latest. I made several phone calls this morning. I was talking to the guy from the truss company again and he is going to have his structural engineer meet with the carpenter this afternoon to discuss the issues with the roof. THE GIRDER IS OUR OF POSITION IT IS NOT WHERE IT SHOULD BE!
You've all seen the pictures .... How would you rectify the situation. How do you go about fixing this problem. I want to know whether or not the best solution is to take down the roof. I don't want a patch it job. I don't want a compromise.
They will put in writing what needs to be done and how they are going to fix it and they will also guarantee the work.
I have a meeting set up with the head of the company to go over all the problems.
They appear to be eager to fix this problem asap. They will get back to me before noon tomorrow.
Wanda
That girder out of position is probably what I was seeing with the red paint and markings labeling one of the more unique trusses with a 2x6 bottom chord as one of two or two of three or whatever.Just go with what their engineer says and follow up to make sure it is done the way he says. There are a lot of potential ways to fix this and he will see more on site and know more about the situation than anybody here can say based on the photos. He will know his own product and will have the liability on it.Don't go thumping him with that fact though. Just ask questions and take notes and photos. he'll get the hint, and already he sounds far more professional than the hack would did this work.
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Hi Piffin,
I have one ? for you.... this guy says he doesn't have to go up because he can clearly see by the photos what the problem is.
I really think he should go up and have a look. I wouldn't be surprised if he discovered other things that the pic can't possibly show.
For instance how about the anchors used to fasten the hangers to the trusses..hmmmm
Wanda
That one may be outside of what he feels is his extent of liability so wants to keep hands off.Things like that are where I recommended it would be best to hire a local experienced home inspector to see how all the various systems tie together.Say your town again? Maybe somebody here at BT is close.
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I don't really know what to say at this point. I don't know what they mean when they say that "the girder is out of position". I didn't see anything obvious from looking at your pictures. I would still suggest pushing for a site visit if there are questions about what's been done. But you don't really have any leverage to force them to do so. I'm still up for reviewing anything about the trusses you can get in PDF format. If you ask the truss company for truss drawings and a layout in that format they may be willing to email them to ya. I can give you an email address if you don't want to post them here. .You mentioned truss anchors in a post to Piffin. In many places they simply aren't required. The only thing they do is hold the roof down in hurricanes or tornados. They don't affect the performance of the trusses at all.
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I know they use some different terms in Canada than here, and it got filtered thru the HO, so girder might be different than we would think of, but I'm still believing that it is in reference to what I called out earlier - that one truss appears out of place and should be paired with it's similar other matching truss.There are two with 2x6 bottom chords and a gable wall style webbing labeled to go together as a pair to carry the intersecting trussesI am not going back to download all of these again though to find it.
;)
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I think I know which picture you mean. To me it looks like a girder truss with a 2X8 nailed to the back face of it. But it's hard to tell without more pictures or visiting the jobsite. That's why I keep suggesting a jobsite visit from the truss company - They won't want the liability of knowing that something was done wrong, and will likely make some effort to see that it's corrected.
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Hello BossHog, I have taken pictures of the architectual plans I was given. Now it's only a photocopy. The print is very difficult to make out (miniscule) I took pictures of the photocopy and will post them here. Not sure if you'll find the pics helpful but who knows. So I will post them just in case.
wanda
Hi,
The rest of the pics...
wanda
Edited 3/31/2009 2:53 pm by Wanda200
hello,
not sure if I posted this pic. Page 5 architectual plans
Wanda
O.K. - That helps a lot, and I think I know what happened.
Take a look at this drawing - This is the layout, or plan view of where the trusses go. Note where I've circled the "T4" truss (Blue circle) and the "TG4" girder truss. (Red circle)
View Image
This appears to be a drawing of the "T4" truss. Note the web indicated by the yellow arrow - I'll refer to it later.
View Image
I beieve this truss is "TG4", which is a girder truss. Two of these trusses should have been nailed together to hold up the end of the "T2" trusses. (I didn't post a picture of the "T2", as it's not relavant to the problem)
Note the web indicated by the purple arrow.
View Image
Now take a look at this picture which you posted earlier. I believe the web with the yellow arrow in this picture is from a "T4" truss. That truss should NOT be there.
The purple arrow appears to point to a web from a "TG4" truss. Then there's a 2X8 nailed to the back of the bottom chord, so we can't see much of the truss.
If you look at where I made the red circles, that's a large plate from a "TG4" truss. That's where truss "T4" should be.
View Image
Here's my theory of what happened.
Someone put a "T4" truss wheere the girder "TG4" should have been, and hung all the "T2" truss from it. Once all the bigger trusses were up, they figured out that they had screwed up. Instead of fixing it, they decided to add a "TG4" truss to the "T4" truss and add a 2X8 to the back side of the 2 trusses.
If you're there again, can you tell me if the hangers are nailed to a 2X4 bottom chord? I'm almost sure they are, but would like to double check.
I've seen this happen before, usually with rookie framing crews. unfortunately It won't be easy to correct. They may want to put a beam under it, replace the girder truss, or something like that.
I'd sure like to know what kind of fix they come up with...
Hi BossHog,
I should give you a Huge HUG!
Thank you for pointing out those errors. the red and purple marks really help. Too bad I don't have more pictures of the trusses.
So they have screwed up! Now as soon as I hear back from the truss guy tomorrow I will let you know what he has to say. I'm dying to find out how he's going to solve this problem.
? is should that roof come down????????? They are charging me top $ for that roof. Why should I except an "altered", fixed roof. Hell, I've waited 7 mts now so I really don't care now if it takes them a month to put a new roof on the structure. But reality is they probably will just do a fix it job and charge me the full amt.
Next time I head up to North River I will find out for you whether or not those hangers are nailed to the 2X4 bottom chord.
Thanks again BossHog for taking the time to look over those pics. :) I really appreciate the time you guys have taken to help me with my reno ?'s. Thank god for the internet!
Wanda
Glad I could help. People here on BT have been extraordinarily helpful to me, so I'm happy to make an occasional contribution.Whatever they come up with to rectify the situation will be as good as if it was originally done right - I'm pretty sure of that. Truss engineers tend to be rather conservative. So I don't think you need to worry about how adequate the proposed "fix" will be. I can't say for sure that the repair will be executed adequately - That's up to whomever does it. No way do I think the whole roof should come down. Only the problem at hand needs to be fixed. Taking the whole roof down would only waste tons of time and money.I wouldn't be surprised if they end up saying that they do NOT have a proposed repair ready tomorrow. The more difficult the problem the longer it takes for them to come up with a solution. And engineers tend to work on what's easiest rather than jumping on something that's difficult. But by all means check with them tomorrow - As you know, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
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That is the way I had surmised from seeing the photos earlier.Now I am not even a truss man, and didn't have the paperwork, but iot was so clear from common sense and from all that paint markings on the trusses themselves to make it foolproof, and the guy STILL managed to make himself a fool!Just warms the cockles of your heart, doesn't it?seeing the layout page makes me realize this bad ceiling is only in a small part of this house, and how much load is being transferred to that girder truss, so it is easier to understand why it might have been moving and keeping her ceiling flexing right at that point.
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I kinda figured something was up, but wasn't sure what it was. Maybe the added 2X8 should have been more of a red flag.But again - That's why I like to see things first hand. Had I been on the job for more than 30 seconds I would have known right away what was going on. I don't like to make assumptions.
ERROR 406: file corrupt: config.earth --- reboot universe? (Y/N)
Hello BossHog,
Heard from my contractor tonight. so while I had him on the phone I asked him you ? concerning the hangers. YES, they are nailed on.
He agrees with your accessment.
Wanda
I wasn't asking if the hangers were nailed on - I was asking if they were nailed onto a 2X4 bottom chord of a truss. I'm pretty sure that's the case, but wanted to double check..BTW - The contractor you talked to - Is he a new one, or the one who originally framed the house?
The liberty of speaking and writing guards our other liberties. [Thomas Jefferson]
Instead of tearing the roof down the engineer may be able to suggest putting a double LVL in place of.The 2x8's using simpsonstrong drive screws for lvls
HI,
sorry for the confusion. yes they are nailed t the bottom 2X4 chord of the truss.
Wanda
Hi BossHog,
The new guy (contractor) who is going to go ahead and "fix" the roof had nothing to do with framing the old roof.
Wanda
Any word from the truss place yet?
Leaders are like eagles - they don't flock. You find them one at a time
Hello guys,
Nothing new to report. They are still working on a "fix". No solution has been reached yet as to how they will fix the roof. I stressed that time is of the essense. I lost last summer in my cabin/bungalow I am not losing this summer.
I just got back from the supermarket. The contractor left a message so I have to give him a call. He was supposed to have met with one of the managers of the company.
As soon as I hear anything new I will be sure to post it here on the forum.
At least I have a clear understanding now of what was done wrong. Thanks to you men here at the forum. You're right the guys who worked on this roof were amateurs. (polite word for idiots)
I am not finished with this company yet.... I will set up a meeting after this truss thing is figured out and I am going to go in with my documentation and pictures. I all ready stressed to the man on the phone today that everything the men have done they have had to redo. This is a mulit million dollar company we're talking about. They have over 75 contractors working for them. I got the worst or the worst.... Talk about unlucky.
I must remain calm.. Eventually this will get sorted.
Wanda
I kinda figured it would take time for them to come up with something - This isn't an easy thing to fix.If the roof wasn't already on the house it wouldn't be a huge deal. They're probably looking at adding beams and stuff like that. I wouldn't be surprised if you got a call asking if you would accept the option of putting a beam under the ends of the supported trusses. (Then the girder would be unnecessary)They may come back and tell you that they can't fix it in place, and the girder needs to be replaced. That would mean ripping off a section of roof.At least now you're on the right track.
Health care costs are outrageous. I went in for surgery and there was a two-pint minimum.
Hi guys,
I will be meeting with my contractor tomorrow. He was in touch with the company. Tomorrow he will carry out his inspection of the attic. He said he'd try and go over everything. Since this job has been a complete disaster from the beginning he wants to be sure everything is now up to code. God help us if he finds any more problems.
The trim will be taken off the windows. Extension Jams will be removed and the installation of the window inspected. He has to make sure that the proper screws were used to install the windows.
'Considering that the man who put up the strapping did such a miserable job.. forgot to stagger the joints. I"m not too sure if the sheathing on the roof was installed properly. Judging by those photos I posted they look like big gaps between the sheathing in the hallway and bedrooms. 1/2" in some cases.
I was talking to a carpenter yesterday and he said the men usually install the sheathing as tight as they possibly can. "as tight as you can get them." Otherwise you might end up with a leaky roof leading to mold problems. He also said with gaps that size the man obviously was in a rush.. didn't take the time to do it properly.
Nothing that was ever done was done correctly. I wonder what other mishaps are going to be discoverd tomorrow afternoon.
I will be taking up my big flashlight so he can have a good look at the roof from inside the attic.
For all I know the shingles haven't been installed correctly. I think the trim below the soffit needs replacement. Have a look at the pic and tell me what you think.
What does a contractor usually look for when he carries out an Inspection? I need a checklist of things to look for. Just to make sure no stone goes unturned.
Wanda
Some of the things I would look at are.
1. No drip edge on the roof.
2. Is there ice and water under the first course of shingles.
3. Are the the truses proaperley secured to the building.
4. Are the trusses in their proper places.
5. Roof shething is it properly spaced with clips?
6. Are all valleys flashed with ice and water?
These are a few of my items I can come up with a lot more but I will give some one else a chance to chime in.
Actually you want a slim gap between plywood sheets. The H- clips are just the right amt, shy of 1/8th inch.I got a bad cold and headache so am not thinking any further than that tonight, sorry.Wow, I just told a woman I have a headache tonight...don't THAT feel weird!;)
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Hi Piffin,
I met with my contractor today to inspect the roof. Now I have more issues with the roof.
He had a peek at the inside of the roof via the opening in the closet. He didn't crawl up into the attic. Now I know what H clips look like. I'm getting a real education when it comes to building a house. The gaps seemed ok. but he couldn't get in to check the rest of the roof. He'll know more next week when he begins his work. Right now things are at a standstill.
My contractor and I are having a meeting with the guy from the company on Tuesday morning. I'll phone tomorrow to arrange the appointment for 9:00am. So I will have him check over things on the jobsite. He better be prepared to climb up on that roof.
I have a few new pics to downlaod and then I will post them. Hoping you can help explain a few things.
I have a major issue with the chimney flashing. My contractor said it was a mess. I had him take my camera onto the roof and take pics for me.
P.S How's the headache. :) Thought that was an excuse only women used to avoid their husbands. LOL
Wanda
For starters there is no drip edge on the roof in that photo. The trim is an eysore, but I'm assuming it's all supposed to get wrapped in vinyl and aluminum. Can't tell from the photo whether that old trim below the soffit will wind up buried in the soffit wrap or not. Looks like not.If the plywood is 1/2 inch it should have clips between sheets in the space between the rafters. I believe 5/8 inch is OK w/o clips, but I usualy use them on 5/8 too.Flashing and waterproofing details are critical.Steve
I saw that too, and the fascia looks like T&G? I sure hope its getting wrapped.
But I had always used a 2x4 subfascia and a 1x6 fascia, the soffit goes in the sub, OR the wrap hangs 1/2 down and catches the soffit.
I think she got ####ed without being kissed.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
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Hi Sphere,
"I think she got ####ed without being kissed" LOL can I use that quote when I go up to talk to the guy from the company about the shoddy workmenship!
Is that typical to use T/Groove for fascia? is it code? Another example of shoddy work.
Beneath the soffit in the front of the house there is a strip of vinly guess I'd call that J trim. The contractor pulled that out only to discover the BARE WOOD behind it. No he said with wind rain water could be driven in not to mention small rodents being able to get in. Now what covering should they have put over that before nailing on the vinly siding?
I'll have pictures posted as soon as I get the time to download them.
Now I must get my paperwork together for my meeting on Tuesday. Oh what a fun day I'm going to have. This job has been a f.. up from the very beginning. So many deficiencies. They just F.. up and then come back to repair the shoddy work. Costing me time and money. Not to mention undue stress. My god we're heading into the 8th month. Next week is only a 4 day work week.
Wanda
Hi Moogie,
Guess what? There is a drip edge on the roof. But you'd never guess how they attached it to the roof.
They nailed through the shingles to attach the drip edge!!!!!!!!!!! So they have nails all around the perimeter. OMG!
Wanda
"They nailed through the shingles to attach the drip edge!!!!!!!"Sheesh! I thought this was such a mess because they used a roofer to do all the carpentry and sheetrock work also, but that makes it sound like they didn't even have a skilled roofer on your job! I'm looking forward to the pictures you have yet
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Hi,
OMG! I feel like blasting the balls off a few roosters!
Yes they nailed down through the shingles to attach the drip edge all the way around the roof. I told you they were Neanderthals.
I have a few others I can post but you can have a look at these and see what you think
Good evening,
I'm here watching Hockey Night in Canada trying to forget about my renovation job from hell.
Here are the rest of the pictures that were taken of the roof today.
And here we were badmouthing roofers.
In deference to the trade, these guys weren't roofers.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I'm going to start some commentary here, but have to remind you that it is best to resize your photos for posting here. I normally do not even try to open one over 200kb size. I feel addicted to your situation and bound to see it thru so I am trying to down load, but this will take me a good half hour with the size of these just to see the pictures.Lucky for you, there is a good movie on meanwhile....I can't recall how that chimney flue approaches the sheathing plane, but there really should be more of an effort to get it out of the valley. No roofer will ever warrantee a roof that has a penetration in the valley. There was a design goof in that detail - not that this hack outfit would have followed the plans anyways. And if a man has to use roofing cement like that, it is prima facie evidence that he has no skills to be turned loose on unwary customers. I am choosing my words carefully, being willing to repeat them in any court of law where this outfit might be arrogant enough to try and collect any money from you for this junk, BTW.No nails need ever be exposed on a roof surface except the last two in a ridge cap. And those are high up where little water ever runs over them, but they get some caulk to seal too. These exposed near bottom with volumns of water running over them and no sealant will have water seepage inside of two years wetting the wood and leading to rot.I almost think the gutter installers did the metal work after roof was on but it is all botched up with that caulk there instead of proper install and lapping of joints. Gutter lip should be UNDER the drip edge. The drip edge used is the cheapest type possible.The top shingle exposure is uneven - from zero at one end to a couple inches at another. I don't know how it is possible to get that far off parallel in such a short roof.I wonder if there is ANYTHING this outfit did right....Oh Yes, the shingle layer did start at the bottom and lay to the top - at least he got that much right.
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It looks like the valley has the shingles underlapped, or maybe it's an illusion.
I am not sure what you mean by underlapped.It is a woven valley, and the flue was set after the roof shingles were laid, with only about 2" up under a flap of shingle exposure, then lots of block gumbo.Gauranteed to leak within a year or two.I have no idea if there is underlayment or I&W lining the valley either.
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Maybe it's just me, but I'm not really seeing any drip-edge either. Wouldn't be the first roof that was ever laid without it, but still...
I see L-style in a couple, but one shot looks like none at all where I can't be sure.But it is laughable for th gutter to be over instead of under it.
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It looks like the shingles are layed so that the flow of water will go under some of the shingles. They look like they are improperly woven to me.
I don't see that. I think what you are seeing is the crotchlines in some of the shingles.
But either of us could be wrong on that.
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hello Piffin,
I"m under the impression that my roof is under warrantee. You're telling me that no roofer would ever warrantee a roof like mine (one that has a penetration in the valley) My god!
Why wasn't I told this by the company engineer before the roof went up?
This picture might help you recall how that chimney flue approaches the sheathing plane.
What size pictures are best to post on the forum? 640X800
Wanda
"the company engineer before the roof went up? "He had no idea where the roofer would put the flue or that he would do such a sloppy job.you've told us that the roofer did all this work, but what I see is that the flue was put thru the roof after the shingles were laid, so maybe they somebody else doing that - a metal jockey who know nothing about roofing.I recall that behind brick now. I believe they could have gotten that pipe elbowed further away from the valley, but I'd have to be there to be sure. That is something I'd have the new guy study out if you have to rebuild that area of roof to deal with the truss problem.If you look at the vent showing on a couple pictures in this same section of roof closer to the ridge, you will see how a flashing boot should be worked into the shingles. This one mostly just lays on top of them with a bunch off goop. so it is poorly done even for a clear section of roof, but a valley carries a high volumn of water and is a location where more ice backup occours.the type of warantee you have is what we call a tail light warrantee - good until my taillights get around that next bend in the road. If they were to do anything at all for you when it starts leaking, it would only be to spread some more black glop around up there. The only way plastic roofing cement does any good is when used like a glue, between two pieces of material, not gobbed on top. remember the kids in kindergarten? Some would use the paste to glue paper together by spreading it first, then stick the paper together - the right way. Others would just smear it on top of the seam where it would not do any good, then cry when the project fell apart on the home home to show Mommy.
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Yes on picture size - that was good
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I wonder (I've followed this thread, but it's been a while since I read the beginning, so I've forgotten lots) if any of these contractors were qualified in what they were doing. In other words, it almost seems as if they had...words fail me...totally unexperienced people doing this--or had plumbers doing the roofing, roofers doing the drywall, etc. I think many do-it-yourselfers could have done better!
Another thought that entered my little brain is--what have these clowns done (and are still doing) to other poor, unsuspecting homeowners!
If my memory is right - she contracted with a large contractor with in house engineering and design service to handle this, but they normally do larger jobs and commercial. And this place is a bit out in the boonies, so they handed it off to a guy who was basically only a "roofer". Whether hourly or as a sub, I don't know. But it looks from photos as tho he was not even a roofer - only a shingle layer at best. And I don't know what other people were brought in on this as subs like electrical and insulation, etc. I don't know what kind of supervision and inspection the company did over him, but it is clear that it was totally inadequate. They failed to serve their customer - Wanda. The company reps had to have been aware of at least some of this - I recall her quoting the super as having said that there had been "a problem" at the chimney area. Well DHUH! Yeah, they caused the problem by using the trusses wrong. There was also the problem of the flue location but they should have found a fix instead of just goobering it up. That is the job of a GC.Some of the problems could have been budget driven and I don't know what the original negotiations and scope was either. sometimes a customers lack of reality in expecting too much for a budget job drives quality down for some contractors, but this is beyond the ...whatever...there is no excuse for most of this junk.
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Hello guys,
I have a meeting with one of the men from the company tomorrow morning. Plus the mason will be going up to check out the fireplace situation. Perhaps that flue can be moved away from the valley. I also have my new contractor coming up to meet with the company man.
Most important thing on tomorrow's agenda... A written contract! I want it in writing what they intend to do to fix this problem (regarding the misplaced trusses) How long it's going to take.. and when they will be finished up. Plus it appears now that I have other issues with the roof.
Depending on how the meeting goes I will phone The head of the organization (company) I was told he's on vacation for the next 2 weeks so they passed me on to their In sales guy. This is one of the largest buildling companies in my province. Trying to figure out the chain of command is like solving a jigsaw puzzle. At this point in time I don't have any reason to trust them. Can you believe they actually told me the other day on the phone that I didn't need a contract! How stupid do they think I am.
I must find out the names of the men who did the work. All I know is a general contractor was hired (sub-contracted out by the company) to do the roof. Written in big bold lettering on this man's truck it says General contractor specializing in windows, doors ,roofs, and eavestrough. .
Right now I am concerned about the windows. Have they been installed properly. My contractor went up last Sat to take a look but he only took off the trim and poked at the insulation and only from the inside. Kind of hard to find problems when the entire thing is covered over. Don't want to really haul out a window. So who knows maybe there is no proper flashing around the windows. I'm not a window expert.
I'm of the opinion to ask them to take the entire roof down and have my contractor put up a new roof.. So many things have gone wrong.. God knows what else is wrong with that roof.
Or do I settle for a "compromise".. have them fix up their mistakes Like I've been doing since day 1... replace the shingles, flashings, chimney elbow, and drip edge. I don't even know if they have proper flashing beneath the woven valley. I'm not even certain whether those shingles in that area are installed properly.
Just got off the phone with the contractor.. he said I don't have a drip edge on the roof.
So I guess what I have there is a fascia flashing?????? He realizes the flashing is a mess.
Wanda
"Can you believe they actually told me the other day on the phone that I didn't need a contract!"Don't you already have a contract?I would need a lawyer versed in Canadian law to say whether you want another one or not. I can say what is wrong with the work as I see from pjhotos.If on site I could say what I would do to fix it.but I can't begin to say what is the stance to take in this given Canadian law and not knowing what your legal position is at this time.negotiating?
Taht could take another whole thread.But to get where you want to go, you have to know where that is, and the most reasonable way to get there.
They are already a step ahead of you on that if they are sending a SALES guy and not a structural engineer to state unequivocally how the roof structure can be fixed. They want the lowest cost solution and are sending smiling Joe out to sell you that. You want to see Sam the Engineer's solid plans to fix.I can't advise how to negotiate things if they will not provide an engineer's plan for the fix. If their answer is "Trust us" to do the right thing, they already proved that they are incapable of deserving that. All i could do is laugh, let them leave and tell my new contractor to get an engineer and propose a fix. Whatever it takes to make things right gets subtracted from what you owe the "company"
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Hi Wanda,
I have not reread the whole thread so forgive me for repeating what may have been said before.
You must give the original contractor full and fair,documented if necessary, opportunity to rectify the mistakes made.
Failure to provide this opportunity could cause you to have to pay twice.
As obviously incompetent as these hacks are to the pros here any opportunity as to whether a structural repair can be effected without removing the roof must be given.
Piffen is certainly correct about the salesman. If they do not want to send an expert in roof trusses then they are wasting everyone's time.
You are most certainly entitled to give them the boot when it is provable that they are incompetent or have chosen to withdraw in writing.
It is so important that you document and take notes. It is surprising how many incompetent contractors still get paid despite their crappy work.
The other thing is that you cannot impede the original contractor in any way, by bad behavior or otherwise, professionalism is your best defense here.
Even the length of time they have screwed you around may not work for you if no written timelines were established from the the outset.
Be careful and patient, it could still be a long haul.
You have my deepest sympathy as no one deserves to be served as badly as you have been.
Cheers s.
FYI a verbal contract is binding in Saskatchewan. The fellows how poured my slab for raidient floor didn't know what a trowel was for. $ 12,000 lesson, I am still cleaning up!
Did you get a lawyer yet?
Best keep a note pad with dates and lisence #s also.
Hi guys,
Now that the problem with the roof has been taken care of I have another problem to deal with.
Remember I said I was also meeting with the mason on Tuesday. Well after having a lengthy 1 hour discussion with him it was advised that I remove the fireplace and mantel. He was shocked to discover that it wasn't properly supported from underneath. Apparently all that weight is just resting on the floor joists. He said whoever put in that fireplace should be shot!
This man is a certified WETT inspector & Technician. So he knows what he's talking about. I checked out the references he gave me and was shown pictures of his work (his working portfolio)
Now remember I did have an CHMC home inspector carry out a 3 hour inspection of this home way back. So I have to wonder why this problem wasn't discovered. I actually had 2 other masons up to talk about my fireplace a year ago because I wasn't getting much heat. plus I noticed that the floor was sloped beneath the hearth and there was a small crack in the tile on top of the hearth. Well now I know don't I. Bit too late.
Before the drywall and plastering can go ahead I have to have the large fireplace removed from the main room. That was the Mason's recommendation. For now I am left without a fireplace. OMG! He said it would cost around $8000-9000 for a new one. The cheaper option would be a heat efficient wood burning stove. Now I've got to hold off on the flooring. A decision has to be made. I could just have the new flooroing I have installed and worry about putting in a new fireplace and chimney next year. But that would be doing things #### backwards!
Sure hope I don't run into any other surprises.
Wanda
I thought that might be the case when I saw the face was only a 4" veneer with no frame - and you mentioned sloped floor under it.You will just have to decide if you want a masonry FP, a metal zero clearance with faux face, or a wood stove setup.I'd go with the later myself. but you can still get into 5-6K with the unit, the chimney and the surrond.
Nine grand ain't a bad price for a true masonry fireplace though.
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Hi guys,
I was up to check on things today. The men were busy stripping off all the shingles. It appears that the company didn't even bother to use building paper beneath the shingles. I know if you don't use some sort of building paper/tar paper beneath the shingles condensation is likely to accur. They also discovered that insufficient flashing was used on the roof (valley section). The plywood sheathing/roof decking wasn't secured sufficiently in some areas.
Remember the pics I posted showing gaps in the roof.... My contractor had to purchase and install a sheet of plywood to cover the gap that was right in the middle of the roof. I'd say that gap was 1" minimum! I could probably slip my hand through it.
One other thing they skimped on.. They used 2 1/2" nails instead of 3 1/2" nails to fasten the (T2)trusses to the TG4 girder. Get this they only used 2 nails per hanger. My contractor told me he uses (7) 3 1/2" nails on each side of the hanger.I"m guessing that's called the flange. He nails in through the sides of the hinge into the truss on both sides.
Wonder what else my contractor will discover when he goes to replace the trim around all the windows tomorrow. (some of the vinyl has to removed in order for him to replace the trim) There is probably no soffit trim to be found anywhere on the house. I know the front doesn't have any. Maybe he'll discover that the roof trusses aren't toenailed on properly. God only knows. I asked him to check that out. If they used the wrong size nails for everything else I'm willing to bet the guy used the wrong size nails when he toenailed on the trusses to the exterior walls. Since this is a renovation they are not required by law to use brackets to attach trusses. :( But in new contruction they are.
The contractor has taken pictures of all the "deficiencies". Everything has been documented. Shouldn't take anymore than 2 weeks to complete all the work.
Wanda
Glad you found someone who sounds competent!
Hello,
Just curious but what size sheathing do you use when it comes to roofs? 1/8" or 1/4" ?
Do you use tar paper/roofing felt?
Found out this evening that there were certain areas where the sheathing wasn't nailed down sufficiently. They had actually missed the trusses and drove the nails into thin air! So that slowed down my contractor.
I really should refuse to pay anything for this disgusting/ slob job! Talk about cheating the customer. I am so grateful to this forum. Imagine had I not posted my concerns here at breaktime. Thanks to all the experts here on the forum I've been saved from a really crappy reno. The contractor would have gotten away with fraud.
Wanda
Roof sheathing depends on live load requirements and layout of the trusses.You have snow loads to deal with, so with trusses at 24" OC, you should have 5/8" sheathing. If trusses laid out at 16" OC, then 1/2" would suffice.Always use underlayment. Tarpaper or one of the newer synthetics. Also, there should be a product called ice and water shield 6' up from the eave, and in the valleys.
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Hi Scroug,
I am happy to report that things are progressing nicely. The work will begin as soon as possible. Just waiting for the weather to improve.
The man from the company met with me and my contractor on Tuesday to go over everything. He told my contractor to do whatever he had to do to rectify the situation. So I am pleased about that. Only a section of the roof has to come down where they have to put up the new Truss girder. The ceiling in the main room is going to be redone. I'll finally have a perfect ceiling! All the trim around the outside of the windows is going to be replaced due to the sloppy caulking job. The roof will be reshingled and any unforseen problems with regards to flashing or incorrectly staggered sheathing will also be fixed.
They have shown that they want to get this work done as quickly as possible. They even agreed to take out all the furniture that was in the livingroom and place it in storage for me while the roof is being worked on.
My contractor is writing up a contract and will get back to me tomorrow. The man from the company told him to put in writing everything that needs to be done.
Finally I can see light at the end of the tunnel.
I have documented this project from the beginning and have been taking notes of all phone calls made. I have my pictures of all the work that was ever done since Sept.2008 Believe me I have been very patient with this company. Now I'm finally seeing action. :)
Wanda
Edited 4/8/2009 7:23 pm by Wanda200
Thats good to here keep them to their word by having them sign. A list of work to be done by your contractor and also the contract for how this going to be paid for.Good luck.
Here's where a messed up job was luckily so messed up that it affected the appearance--otherwise the truss situation (among other bad things) would never have been noticed until something bad happened (like after the roof caves in and the insurance guys are wondering how it happened!).
It is just lucky that the celing was botched up enough for Wanda to see it and that she wasn't willing to be satisfied with a bandaid approach!
Taunton should do an article in FHB about this whole thing, including the fixes. Could be quite instructional! (They should also give you and the others who gave such good advice some sort of certificate of appreciation, at least, or a free subscription! I just shudder to think of what could have happened if you all hadn't been on the ball and followed up with questions to find out what was really going on under the botched mud job.)
Also a good thing that several posters here (you being one of the major helpers) kept with Wanda, prompting her to supply more information, giving her good advice and so on. You all deserve lots of the proverbial Milkbones! Yay team!
I think a couple of good lesson can be pointed out for lurkers and others doing something like thisCheck and double check references and ask a lot of questionsTake a lot of pictures and do other documentation in process.Find a knowledgeable, objective third party as advisor or inspector.Keep as much money as possible in your pocket until you are satisfied.FWIW, I don't think the roof would have fallen in, but it would have always moved seasonally with being overloaded at that point for the way it was built. So she could have been one of those people trying to reconcile herself to having it retaped and mudded and painted every year or two and never happy with the result..Unfortunately, this is still going to be a little like having been burglarized when even after the thief is in prison and the goods recovered, the feeling of having been violated and the loss of time and privacy is still a lost part of her life. Once finished, she will have to finally find a place in her mind to say - "Time to move on."
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Hi,
Here are some more pictures of the roof. Showing the front of the bungalow.
There is no way to tell how those trusses are fastened to the ext. walls.
Wanda
Yes, I'm wondering that myself.. how did it pass inspection???? That is the ? of the day.
Wanda,
The answer of the day is call the inspector yourself and get him out there immediately!!!
Is there a permit for this job, yes or no? If not call the inspector now and have him look at this. You have nothing to hide, right? There should've been a permit. It should've been in your window, was it??
Your new contractor should not be doing anything until you have an inspector and truss rep out there to look at this.
It's YOUR job now to get an inspector out there. You kidding yourself if you come back and tell me that it's the new contractors job. If so, where the permit and tell him you want to see it in your window right now like it supposed to be. You tell him you want to be there when it gets inspected. This new contractor can't close anything up anyway before it gets inspected.
Are you going to call the inspector, yes or no?
Joe Carola
From the pictures I can't really tell what's going on. The trusses could be completely adequate, or there could be serious problems with them. I did see a couple of things that I would like to look at more closely if I could. Withuot reviewing the layout, knowing the loading, and climbing around in the attic there's no way to know fer sure.
I love being labeled the ditz - That was how I got the guys. [Jessica Simpson]
Piffen, my hats off to you, you are quite the detective, I had to go over those pics a couple times to see what you are refering to.
I think you are exactly right, one of the 2 ply trusses is out of position.
Seems to me that Wanda should get the truss company to engineer a proper fix and deduct the cost of that from final payment as well, dont you?
Well, it is really the contractors job to make it right, but they have pissed on her all winter over this already. What is a "reasonable time" to show good faith? I can't make that decision on this deal.and it was Joe who zeroed in on the problem with the instinct of a homing pigeon.
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Edited 3/10/2009 11:48 pm ET by Piffin
Shouldn't there be bracing up in the trusses also? Vince Carbone
Riverside Builders
Franklin,NY
I'm not much of a truss man and don't have the truss engineer's plans,so I don't know. I figured Boss could fill in some generalities and confirm whether my thoughts were right. I'm quite sure I am, but you never know.I think I see the bottom chord on the gable end truss is 2x4 as are all the others there, but the 2x6 on a couple and the red paint and marking drew my eye in.LOL, she said the contractor told her there was a "problem" at the chimney area. He just didn't tell her that he caused the problem
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey Ron, Piffins calling you. Piffin, Boss Hog is another guy.
Oh my goodness, a faux Boss!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
He's been around for a LONG time, and only has one post. So hopefully it won't cause much confusion...
Money goes where it is wanted and stays where it is well treated. This annoys government to no end [Walter Wriston]