I’m getting ready to do a major renovation to my 2 story home, to include replacing the current 4:12 roof with a 12:12 roof. I also want to raise the second floor ceiling height from 8 ft to 9 ft. I don’t know whether I will have the framer stick build the roof or use trusses (crane access is a problem). When we remove the current stick built roof rafters, can I add a 12 inch ladder design to the top plate to raise the ceiling height, or must I tear down all the exterior walls and replace them with 9 Ft studs? Has anyone ever done this before?
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Replies
Around here you can't do the ladder extensions to walls. It can only be done when there is no liveor dead load on it. Which rules your situation out.
You may want to ask your local building inspector and see if you can add plates instead. Not as cost effective but better than reframing entire exterior walls.
I only golf on days that end with a "Y".
Thanks for the advise - I'll check with the local inspector. Jimmy
There a few ways you can do it without tearing your walls down. A few ways is to put a 3-1/2" x 11-7/8" LVL around the whole perimeter or you cut pockets in your top plates and sister 2x4's along side them extending up 1'and put 11-7/8" LVL's in between. I did one last year with LVL's.
It all depends on what the code will be and obviously you don't have an Architect so you'll have to go with what the town will let you do.
If you have any problems you can keep all your outside walls at 8' and put kneewalls up on the inside walls at 9'and nail the ceiling joists at the rafters at 9' with a little clip in the ceiling which in some rooms you can make it a tray ceiling if you want.Joe Carola
Edited 5/28/2006 9:58 pm ET by Framer
Joe,
Thanks for the advise. I thought about sistering 9 foot studs to the existing 8 footers and adding a new top plate, but didn't think about using the LVL. I'll check with the inspector first. Also, I agree with keeping the current 8 foot walls and putting a tray at 9 feet would be easier, but we'd like to avoid that if possible. Jimmy
I think Simpson has some special hardware for extending walls and eliminating the hinge action there. I like the LVL continuous header best tho.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
What a great idea!
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"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Edited 5/29/2006 12:18 am by Huck
Huck,Don't laugh at this but now I'm playing with SketchUp and the colors....;-)Joe Carola
Great idea and a good drawing.
I thought about sistering studs as well but ruled that one out because of having to probably redo all the electrical in the walls in question. Who knows the electric may need an update anyway.
I only golf on days that end with a "Y".
Edited 5/29/2006 8:20 am ET by Stilletto
Framer: How would you rough in your electrical in this situation? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I just really have no idea.
Build a 2x wall in front of the lvl for utilities and insulation.
"How would you rough in your electrical in this situation?"I didn't take that as being sarcastic. That's a very good question and is something that has to be addressed. In his case he would have to cut the sheetrock out wherever necessary to move any wires or plumbing need be. The last job I did this on the walls were already gutted so it was easy for everyone.Ripping down all of the trim, sheetrock, insulation, plumbing, ducts, walls, sheathing, siding, windows just to increase 1' to me is not even an option unless someone has money to burn. He has some options and it’s up to his building department or Architect, if he has one for that matter.
Joe Carola
How would you get the wire through the LVL? Drill through it? Run surface mounted cable? Run a utility chase? None of the above?
I guess they would drill threw the center of top plates and threw the center of the lvl.Joe Carola
Thats what chases are framed for. Not all that pleasing to the eye but sometimes you have to dance with who ya brung.
Even framing a chase into a closet where it can't be seen is an option. We all know that if the chases were framed that the mechanical, plumbing and electrical guys would still cut the LVL and tell you thats where it had to go.I only golf on days that end with a "Y".
to allow for electrical space, you could frame witha single LVL and then block to th einside with ripped stud blocks stacked above the existing.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
JIMMY -
Locally in NY, the deal is the same, no ladders. BI's don't even want to talk about intermittent 9' studs - Redo the walls. (We didn't try the idea of putting lvls on top though).
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
I' surprised that no one has mentioned that JLC had an article in 2005 about this very subject.
IIRC they used LVL's on top of the top plate.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon,
Hey thanks. I should've looked at your reply before sending my last response. I save interesting articles from JLC and I found the one you're talking about. I need to read it closely, but at first glance it's exactly what I need to do to raise the ceiling height on the second floor - and the builder (David Morgan) used the LVL method. And he used cripple walls on non-leadbearing partictions.
I wonder if there were any comments after the article ran that disputed the method?
Jimmy
Everyone makes good points. Framer's point is well taken - it's a lot of work and cost for the benefit. The house is only 22 years old and is on the lake front - great views and fishing! All the fixed glass windows and 4 sliders facing the lake have lost their thermal seals and will be replaced with double-hungs and french doors. I'm bumping out the living room and putting in a cathedral ceiling back to a center stone faced chinmey and putting an addition on the rear. I'm replacing all the wood siding with hardplank. Inside, every room except the hall bath and one wall will be changed, therefore I'm gutting the entire inside on the second floor already and will expose nearly all the studs on the inside, therefore making electrical runs easier. Also, nearly all the electrical to the second floor comes up from the lower level. I could remove the current top plate, remove the wiring, sister a 9 foot stud on every 8 footer and add new top plates, but I think the least expensive option and the easiest is to follow Huck's drawing. Jimmy
Jimmy,
Here's another option for you they we are going to use on a shop to raise the plate height from 9'6 to 11'6.
It is currently 2x4 exterior wall and we are going to let in at every 4' o.c or less, depending on window and door openings, a 4x4 up to the new stud height a then frame between each and run a continuos double top plate.
The 4x4's eliminate the hinge effect. You could use 4x6 post if you have 2x6 walls. We're dropping 40' attic trusses on top of that to basically give him a second floor for his shop.
But again you should check your local building dept.
Howie
Howie,
Thanks. I assume your building dept appoved your method?
Jimmy
Yes, we're in a heavy snow load and seismic zone and we will have a lot of hardware and holddowns to add, but I was just giving you the basics of how we were extending our top plates.
Everything we do here has to be engineered so the county here will put their stamp of approval on it if the engineer has his signature on it.
Howie
Thanks Howie.
If you use trusses, I don't see why you couldn't build an extra foot of ceiling into the trusses.
You could do what Framer (Joe) illustrated with the trusses too; his idea sounds like the best solution.
Keep us posted on what your plan of attack turns out to be.
That's a great idea - I'll check with the truss maker! Thanks, Jimmy
I raised a ceiling in this house without adding on to walls or replacing rafters or roof. I added rafter ties and then cut off the ceiling joists to form the sides of a tray.
It may not work for you, but I thought I'd post a pic.
Edit to add: I was working with an 8 in 12 roof, with a 4 in 12, I would want a room at least 16' across or the tray would be too skinny or too shallow to look good IMO.
Edited 5/29/2006 2:43 pm ET by basswood
Thanks for the picture. This forum is great - I'm getting exactly what I need.
Jimmy
I did exactly what you are asking about with my garage. My garage was built with 7'6" high walls. I was doing a ton of repair to the roof anyway, so I tore it all off and raised it 11.5".
Attached is how I did it - this was BI approved in Seismic SoCal, BTW.
I was limited by not being able to remove the stucco on the exterior, otherwise I would have run strap up both sides every other stud, instead I used the 1/2" rod. If I did it again, I would have removed the top 2x4 and run new wood along the very top, then fastened down from the top.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Here's a smaller version of that file.zak
"so it goes"
thanks
Paul,
Thanks. I see that the key factor is the 3/4" plywood shear sheathing on the inside wall from floor to ceiling, which is impractical inside a house. My house currently has lap and gap wood siding, and I'm hoping that it's attached directly to the 2X6 stud walls. Many houses built 20+ years ago in my area (rural Missouri) where put up on the cheap and there was no sheathing. So when I pull off the siding and repalce it with hardiplank, if there's no sheathing I'll do what you did on the exterior. If not, I'm checking out strong-tie straps.
BTW, what software are you using to draw the sections?
Jimmy