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Indecisive clients

PGOttawa | Posted in Business on September 19, 2010 05:11am

Well it has finally happened….the nut house has let a couple lunatics lose and I signed them…. How can the location of a wall switch on a 16″ wall become a 20 min meeting?? or weather or not a pair of interior doors should be 44 or 42″ in a 8′ wall (that took 2 weeks). I’ve never met two people incapable of deciding ANYTHING!! Here’s a classic, soffit security lighting…middle, front or back of the 16″ overhang ??? Worlds are colliding, economies collasping, galaxies are shrinking if the wrong decision is made !!!

Seriously, what to do with people like this ?? We can’t just go ahead and do things normally business as usual because they will ultimately want it another way. So we ask the question and it turns into a nightmare of confused dazed looks and a million ideas….

I give them all the headstart I can manage on future issues and it’s still never near enough…

Funny thing, buddy makes a living (and a freaking good one) as a Business Strategy consultant. In other words helping businesses make decisions on their businesses…..The world is nuts…..

Positive side, they keep going on about how happy they are with everything aand how they are looking forward to working with me in the future on a ton of other work, over 250k my estimate. I want nothing more to do with them starting yesterday!!

There, I feel much better….thanks for listening.

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  1. davidmeiland | Sep 19, 2010 11:47pm | #1

    If you stop asking them what they want

    and start deciding yourself, you are opening yourself up to problems later if they don't like what you did, and that can come at the very end, when it's hard to move a switch or enlarge a door.

    I would flat-out tell them that the decisions have to come quicker and that there's no way you can spend the time they have taken so far for these small decisions. Find a way to phrase it nicely, or maybe not, but get to the point. You need to take charge of the job.

    On small stuff like a switch location, I might have Sparky nail the box up where I think it should go, and then point it out to them as part of a walk-through. If your judgement is good you can get many small things done this way. I would be getting their decisions in writing (even if just your own meeting notes) for the big stuff.

    We've all been there... pressed into service as marital counselors. My rate for that is about triple my rate for building.

    1. calvin | Sep 20, 2010 07:18am | #2

      I'm in agreement

      tempered of course with the way the story was told in the original post.

      Given the number of years in my business I can sympathize, what with all the decisions, misunderstandings and hand holding I've been a part of.  But decisions have to be made and how it's done reflects directly on the way your operation is percieved in the end.

      Job notes are made a necessity with situations like this.  Moreso, dated addendums to working drawings where it can be pointed out after the fact that in reality, a certain decision was made and all parties were in agreement (at least at that time............).

      Copies of emails also can play a part in an amicable result.

      Changes cost money, and is what dated and signed change orders are for.  Sure saves time in arguments on misunderstandings.  Sort of.

      It's a bitch when you are speaking english and the customer hears it as some form of swahili.  It's all part of the job and it is too bad the original poster has it coming in such volume.

    2. DanH | Sep 20, 2010 07:27am | #3

      With things like a switch location normally Sparky puts it where he normally would and never asks anyone.  My impression is that the OP is pushing too many decisions off on the customer.  Customers hire a contractor for his knowledge and judgment, and he should give them what they're paying for.

      Certainly some customers like to be involved in the decisions, but that doesn't sound like the case here.

      1. calvin | Sep 20, 2010 09:09am | #4

        Dan

        Custom remodeling is just that.  It's not "you want a kitchen makeover, here's what you get".

        Switch location isn't just where the electrician usually puts it.  It is a convenience for the homeowner to turn on/off a light, set the mood and easily do this from locations that make sense-often to just them.  Door swing, width of trim and points of entry/exit are some more things that might deviate from "normal".

        To do things without asking their preference is something that shouldn't be the usual procedure.  Remodeling a remodel b/4 it's finished is just a plain waste of time and material.

      2. davidmeiland | Sep 20, 2010 05:41pm | #5

        Absolutely true

        Customers hire a contractor for his knowledge and judgment

        If you hired me for a project, I would spend some time in the early going figuring out what mattered to you. If things like switch locations were not a big deal to you, soon you would find Sparky putting them where 95% of other people wanted them, out of habit. OTOH, if switch locations were critical to you, we'd walk thru with a sharpie marker and every single one would get laid out with you there.

        It's all about figuring out exactly what the customer wants, and running it accordingly. I have one customer whose greatest desire is that we keep a copiously clean jobsite. Switch locations and hundreds of other small things can be done as we see fit as long as we don't disturb the owner's wah. I have another customer who would like to go over every single switch location and anything else that could affect ergonomics. Most everyone else is somewhere in between, and then there are a few who are both and all else.

        1. calvin | Sep 20, 2010 07:32pm | #6

          Hey,

          When you want to step back from the day to day operation of your company and put up a good paying position to run it..............

          I'd be happy to apply for the job.

          Of course, I might be dead by then.  Or you might not like my work habits, I tend to get too involved in a job.  And I'm sure there might be a slew of other things that would negate the opportunity.  But what the heck, our customer dedication seems to run in the same ditch.

          1. davidmeiland | Sep 20, 2010 08:12pm | #7

            How serious

            are you about the good paying part of it? 

          2. calvin | Sep 20, 2010 08:51pm | #9

            Somewhere around 22 or so yrs ago.........

            I talked with the premier high end builder about a job heading up their newly formed remodeling operation and after all the job descriptioin responsibilities we got down to the dollars.  I broached the issue, asking what that job was worth provided his opinion of me was what he expected when he called me.  14-17 / hr plus the benefits package.  I didn't want to insult him, but candidly remarked that 17 was intriguing, but..............  

             At the time I think I was charging myself out at maybe 25 and thinking that was going to be a cut in pay with almost all the same responsibility.  Well, at the time-my business accumen wasn't much of a forte'.  I saw myself losing hourly for doing the same job  that I already was doing-except the paying part of it.  This was a work and supervisory position along with running all the remodels from start to finish.  All material ordering, sub scheduling and direction.  I declined at the time and maybe it was a mistake.  The company is still the premier high end operation in the area.  Their work is wonderful.

            But, the freedom and continued success I've achieved is also a valuable thing.  Now that I've finally acquired some business savy and know the difference in a wage and cost-only wish I had figured that out way sooner. 

            So yeah, what I bring to the table is worth the money.

            But don't worry, I'm not picking up and moving across the country.  Eventho I might relish the thought about learning from you about the building craft and that real passion I think I have for photography.

      3. PGOttawa | Sep 20, 2010 08:24pm | #8

        DanH, I wish that were the case, I'm 46 and have been getting it done since I was 17. I've never seen anything like these two. My partner just shakes his head and laughs to himself. Seriously,  when money is not a deterant, and schedule is not a concern, all I can really do is wait, invoice additional costs and hope to get it over with asap.

        1. DanH | Sep 20, 2010 09:13pm | #10

          Yeah, outfit I'm working for now is working under contract of another very large Company That Shall Not Be Named.  We're overseeing a project that's partly done by us and partly done by guys in India (who are probably making about $5 an hour). 

          The CTSNBN has the responsibility to do some testing and also obtain a "publisher ID" (think of it as a certificate of occupancy for software) so we could publish the resulting software.  All summer long we've repeatedly asked them "Are you getting that publisher ID?", and they said they were on it. 

          Well, guess what?  Ten days ago got down to the deadline (when the CTSNBN wanted to announce the product), working our butts off to get it done in time -- and no publisher ID.  They still don't have it, and it's not even clear how hard (if at all) they're working on getting it.

          (Of course, we get paid either way, but still it kinda frosts ya.)

        2. User avater
          NYCJames | Sep 22, 2010 12:26am | #11

          I'd be nervous anyway.

          Sounds like you are doing all you can do, but still you've got the feeling this can get out of hand.

          I have had experiences like this and I hate it because I just keep waiting for reality to sink in and when it does they react. The upshot is that the project or future project is downsized or they become tired of project and fly away slowing the approvals down but expecting you to get it back on schedule and maybe money becomes an issue - they begin to talk about the money they have spent with you and lean on the personal relationship that they percieve you have built them whilst you've been holding thier hand.  

          All I can say is you never seen the likes of this before, your spider sense is tingling, trust your gut, expect the unexpected.

          It is hard to complain because they pay, I think they tend to distract and absorb your mental focus and your time. I have lost with clients like these more because they distract from other clients and oppurtunities. And sometimes they are just crazy and they snap on you and you do lose a payment or fall from (thier) grace. 

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