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Indoor/Outdoor Hot Tub Wiring

willflysatellitesforfood | Posted in Construction Techniques on October 6, 2007 07:46am

Hi

I haven’t sought advice in awhile, but am getting to the point of having to rough in our new hot tub and I was hoping someone could sanity-check my desired approach…

Remodeling our house and am adding a new packaged Sundance spa.  The wrinkle is we’re putting it into what used to be a guest bedroom.  Basically, it’s within the roofline of our house, but 1 of the exterior walls has been opened up so that it’s essentially a “walk-out” room.  Protection from the rain, intimacy, closer to the beer fridge, etc…

Am hoping to take advantage of a freed-up run of 6/3 romex that used to feed an electric range.  (new kitchen layout will be gas cooktop with electric oven that only requires a 30A circuit).  Hoping to arm wrestle the romex within the framing to a dedicated spa disconnect switch located within the spa room.  Jumpering the switch to the spa motor/pump housing would be through the moisture-tight plastic flex conduit (ideally), or type MC metal flex (secondarily).  The terminal board for the spa innards is housed within a case-grounded box located inside the side access panel…

Planning to protect the circuit with a 50A breaker at the main panel…

??’s:

1.  Does the supply circuit need to be GFCI-protected?  I haven’t seen a GFCI panel breaker larger than 20A before.  If so, this sounds REAL $$$…

2.  Anyone have simple interpretation of NEC article 680 regarding cutoff switch location?!?  Near as I can tell, if the switch is within the room, but can be located at least 5′ away from the water (and at a normal switch height off of the floor), I should be OK…

3.  Romex to the cutoff OK, provided it remains completely within the framing?  I don’t know why this wouldn’t be acceptable…

4.  1″ plastic flex conduit with 6 gauge B/R/G THHN wires from cutoff to terminal board?  Popping the spa case reveals only 3 connection lugs available (2 hots and a grounding lug)…

Am also planning to put 2 exterior lights in the room (both enclosed, plastic, exterior/wet location rated, attached permanently to the wall), and a GFCI-protected receptacle (at least 5′ away from the water as well).  Any thoughts/concerns regarding these?  As I understand it, the lights have to be on a GFCI-protected circuit as well…

I just spent the last half hour drilling through the NFPA on-line version of article 680, and am intending to visit the bldg officials office early next week.  Was hoping for a little validation from some of you with similar experience or insight…

Thanks in advance for the help!

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  1. edlee | Oct 06, 2007 03:43pm | #1

    Geez, Willy, you don't ask much do you?  :-)   680 is one of the more complicated articles, with a lot of room for confusion.

     

    Anyway, here are a few points:

    Rx in framing indoors is good : 680.21(4).  50a GFCI protection is needed only at the tub, you don't need it on the entire branch circuit. The disconnect location sounds good, needs to be in line of sight from the pump equipment :680.12,  and minimum 5' away.

    Is this tub cosidered to be indoors or outdoors, 'cuz the rules are slightly different.  Outdoors, the convenience receptacle needs to be between 10' and 20' away:  680.22(3) via 680.42.   Indoors it's minimum 5'.

    The lighting clearances are covered in 680.22 (B)  and I leave it to you to figure out based on your own specific circumstances......it's pretty straightforward text. If I'm not right there looking at the the site with a tape measure in my hand, it's hard to figure.

    The glaring potential problem I see is with your original circuit: 3-wire plus ground, or 2-wire plus ground?  I've hooked up a fair number of tub packages and never have seen one that doesn't require an insulated (copper) neutral in addition to the ground.  It's not clear to me what you have, but you need to get that one right! 

     

    Ed



    Edited 10/6/2007 8:47 am ET by edlee

    1. User avater
      BillHartmann | Oct 06, 2007 03:55pm | #2

      "50a GFCI protection is needed only at the tub, you don't need it on the entire branch circuit. The disconnect location sounds good, needs to be in line of sight from the pump equipment :"One clarifaction.You need GFCI protection SOMEPLACE. It can be at the main panel. And you can use a simple disconnect in the room, such as an AC disconnect.But there are packaged kits used for outdoor tubs. It consists of a panel with the 2 pole 50 amp breaker. So that is typically used for the both the GFCI protection at the tub and for a disconnect..
      .
      A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

  2. renosteinke | Oct 06, 2007 11:42pm | #3

    Read the NEC all you want ... it won't tell you how to do the job. It's not an instruction manual. Competency in the trade is presumed BEFORE you read the code.

    Nix on the romex. You will need to run an insulated ground wire, the same size as the current carrying wires, from the panel that supplies the power. This means Romex is not a suitable wiring method.

    Your disconnect needs to be at least 5 ft. away from the tub ... and be "readily accessible."

    1. edlee | Oct 07, 2007 12:27am | #4

      Nix on the romex. You will need to run an insulated ground wire, the same size as the current carrying wires, from the panel that supplies the power. This means Romex is not a suitable wiring method.

      Romex is good from the main panel to his tub disconnect, as long as the tub disconnect is on the wall of the house or adjacent structure. It is run in the interior of the house and is an acceptable Chapter 3 wiring method with a covered ground wire.  680.21(4)

      And that's what OP said he was doing.

      Did you read his post carefully?

       

      Ed

       

       

      Edited 10/6/2007 5:31 pm ET by edlee

      1. renosteinke | Oct 07, 2007 06:54am | #5

        I stand corrected ... as far as the NEC is concerned. This is still an area that is commonly modified by local amendment ... so the OP really needs to be very clear with the AHJ on this point.

        1. User avater
          willflysatellitesforfood | Oct 07, 2007 10:10am | #6

          Gentlemen...

          Thanks a bunch for the comments - I really do appreciate it...

          Picked up a spa disconnect today - good old Home Depot - 'bout $80 which includes the exterior rated housing and 50A gfci trip switch.  Box will be mounted on the wall across from the corner that the tub will be mounted.  Clear view, obvious and easy access to switch, approx 6-1/2' from the closest edge of the water level...

          Existing 6/3 that I intend to use is type NMB, and consists of 3 insulated conductors AND an uninsulated ground - all 4 sheathed within plastic.  Cross-section is just about that of a 25 cent piece...

          Again, thanks everybody for the info - I especially appreciate the specific code section references...

          Jim

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