Replies

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Mar 04, 2004 03:45am | #1

   3/4 is pretty light .. if you have two stringers... your span is about 28"..

   can you use 2x10's ?

   Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   mike4244 | Mar 04, 2004 03:50am | #2

   Usually 5/4 yellow pine is used for treads in economical stair construction. If you have three stringers then 3/4" plywood would be strong enough.Risers are often left open on basement stairs. If you want risers , pine, poplar even plywood will suffice.

   mike

3. 
   sungod | Mar 04, 2004 03:54am | #3

   Three 2X4's threads, no risers with 1X1 cleats holding them against an uncut stringer.

1. 
   Sphere | Mar 04, 2004 03:59am | #4

   1x1 cleats? ya tryin to kill him?

   picture this, cleat blows down, center stinger is a fulcrum other end of 2x4 comes up...bloody nose and shinbone..if he's lucky.

   forget cheap..cut the damn stringers and get 5/4 SYP tread stock.

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   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

2. 
   Fingrs | Mar 07, 2004 07:38am | #16

   Hello, Sungod (interesting "Handle")

   I've investigated the cleat solution as compared to a cut carriage and find that the cleat approach is recommended for temporary use only, as the cleats have a tendency to work loose over time.   

   Inasmuch as a cleat failure could have injurious and disasterous results for either me or my family (and yes, I have experienced this), I am going to stick with a cut carriage approach as the safer one, and take my thread back to the question of tread thickness and material, which I think has been answered by more knowledgeable folks.   

   See y'all.

4. 
   UncleDunc | Mar 04, 2004 04:09am | #5

   Around here you can buy 1-1/4" x 12" bullnose particle board tread stock in 12 foot lengths.

5. 
   DanH | Mar 04, 2004 04:16am | #6

   Actually, I would consider using two layers of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood, glued together. Stronger than any other option, and less apt to warp or split.

   I agree that cleats on the stringers is the way to go (stronger and easier than cut stringers), but use at least 2x2 stock (in fact, no reason to not use 2x4) or metal angle cleats. We did our deck steps with metal angle cleats held in place with lag bolts, and a little Liquid Nails spread around to keep the lags from "walking" out. Been solid for 15 years so far.

1. 
   Sphere | Mar 04, 2004 04:42am | #7

   A tread on a cleat is not necessarily stronger than a tread on a stringer..notching a stringer is very easy with stair gages or a sq. , 2' level and 2 c-clamps..I have seen MANY, MANY cleated stairs failing..not constucted like yours..but nailed. I would try to not even give someone the idea..they may decide bolts and glue is overkill and just go with nails..my shins can verify my findings. Stairs are one place to not skimp, ya never know when Uncle Bob decides to store his chest freezer in the basement, and the stairs fold up on him and whoever is helping move the thing..seen it.

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   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

1. 
   DanH | Mar 04, 2004 05:32am | #10

   When you cut stringers, you cut away 3/4 of the strength. Plus, getting stringers cut so that the treads are level and evenly spaced can be a challenge, while with cleats you can always remove them and reinstall if it doesn't work out the first time.

   I've seen many, many stairs (especially basement) with cut stringers where the steps were irregular and/or wobbly, and with unpleasant bounce in the stringers as well.

1. 
   Fingrs | Mar 04, 2004 07:29am | #11

   Lots of good stuff here, folks...I thank you.  2X10s may be the best option for treads, and I can always plane them down to 1 1/4".  3/4" plywood for risers seems prudent, if only to add rigidity to the structure.  So's you know, the current stairs are 4/4 stringers with 1X pine treads and risers.  Some of the treads are pressure treated, which I'd prefer not to have on the interior.  Whatever I do will probably be an improvement. 

1. 
   Piffin | Mar 04, 2004 07:38am | #12

   It's a wonder those sringers are still there and not kindling!

   Why the objection to pressure treated? Got any kids that like to eat the floor materials? 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   rasconc | Mar 04, 2004 08:21am | #13

   This is really for the other guys but is there not a recent super plywood for subfloors that is close to or over an inch?  Found it, Plytanium, at bottom of post.

   I built my basement stairs with two 2x12 yellow pine stringers with treads of same material.  I used engineered (Timberstrand) 2x4 cleats screwed (ran out of 2" Piffin screws and had to use galvanized 3", subfloor adhesive, and a few nails thrown in for good measure.  Used 5/8 osb for risers to close it off and make a slight nosing.  I think you could roll a safe down it. 

   I know that it has been practice to cut stringers forever but unless using three or vertical support midway it sure does look weak when you cut out almost two thirds of the chord.

   http://www.gp.com/build/product.aspx?pname=Plytanium%e2%84%a2+Sturd-I-Floor%c2%ae&pid=1743&hierarchy=

   Edited 3/4/2004 12:23:39 AM ET by RASCONC

6. 
   Piffin | Mar 04, 2004 05:04am | #8

   Not sure what you mean about avoiding the cost of solid material. Have you actually priced sheet good lately?

   I can get southern Yellow pine 5/4 treads fairly decently but not as cheap as 2x10 material. I definitely would not use plywood.

   We use plywood for the temporary construction treads simply because by that time, we usually have a suppply of scraps laying around from prior construction phases. They are pretty well trashed by time the job is in trim phase.

   But think about it. The ply only has the strength in one axis, so a 3/4" ply only has the axis strength of maybe 1/2" or 9/16" solid.

   One way to increas strength is to use risers too, even though a lot of cellar stairs skip that as a trim detail un-needed. That vertical leg under the tread ewdge serrves to hold it up in truss fasshion. That is why a locked, housed set of steps is so strong with no center stringer.

   Only 30" ehayah!

    

    

   Welcome to the
   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   Fingrs | Mar 04, 2004 04:20pm | #15

   Thanks for the response.  30" is at the wide part...Fortunately I have bulkhead stairs directly to the outside that I use for the heavy stuff, although my wife informs me that if I die the Unisaw and 15" planer are going to be sold with the house...

7. 
   VaTom | Mar 04, 2004 05:13am | #9

   I once constructed stairs using 4/4 hickory stringers with 4/4 treads dovetailed into them for that width.  The bounce was more than I liked so I added a stiffener under each tread.  Third owners since us are still enjoying them.  You said shop?  Showcase!

   PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

8. 
   ravenwind | Mar 04, 2004 08:56am | #14

      I did this to my stairs a few years ago using 2x10  planks I had hanging aroung the yard and they make a nice solid set of steps  , and it didnt cost that much to begin with as I bought 20 ft planks and They only cost about  22.00 still at the lumber yard /    Two stringers , risers 3/4 in pine and 2x10 treads make a ruggid set of steps that I could carry a boiler up or down if I needed .

                                              spend the extra money , you'll never regret it

                                                                                Dogboy 

9. 
   MarkH | Mar 07, 2004 04:38pm | #17

   My basement stairs are rough cut 2x8. Very solid but steep and uneven though. They are so tricky to navigate that I have gone down nose first and feet first a couple times. The feet first one actually hurt the most.

1. 
   Fingrs | Mar 07, 2004 06:08pm | #18

   It's amazing how even the slightest unevenness can cause tripping...especially when carrying something that impedes vision, such as a laundry basket.  While I don't expect my new stairs to be fine woodworking from a material standpoint, they will be properly measured, cut and constructed.  Take care. 

1. 
   DanH | Mar 07, 2004 06:17pm | #19

   [QUOTE]

   It's amazing how even the slightest unevenness can cause tripping...especially when carrying something that impedes vision, such as a laundry basket. While I don't expect my new stairs to be fine woodworking from a material standpoint, they will be properly measured, cut and constructed. Take care.

   This is one reason why 2x10 for treads is a bad idea. Especially outside, but even inside a 2x10 will almost always warp, producing an uneven step. Better to use 2 2x6s, or rip the 2x10 in half. (Or use doubled, glued 3/4" plywood.)

   This of course is also why the code says all risers must be identical.

1. 
   Fingrs | Mar 07, 2004 06:25pm | #20

   Dan-what do you think about milling 2x10 stock to 5/4?  Would warping be as much of a problem?  The treads are 30" long and will have two stringers at the ends.  Also, I could reinforce the treads with stiffeners between the risers. 

1. 
   UncleDunc | Mar 07, 2004 07:00pm | #21

   I don't think a 2x10 is wide enough. It could end up being as little as 9-1/4", and a stair tread, including nosing, should be closer to 12". There's a reason commercial tread stock is a foot wide.

2. 
   Fingrs | Mar 07, 2004 11:12pm | #22

   Good point.  At this stage I'm more worried about thickness than width and I appreciate your feedback.

3. 
   DanH | Mar 07, 2004 11:35pm | #23

   5/4" is too flimsy for steps, unless there's a center stringer. A riser will support the front edge, but the back edge will be "soft".

4. 
   UncleDunc | Mar 08, 2004 01:54am | #24

   Or you can cut the risers to hang down below the treads and dado the back edge of the treads into the risers. Maximum rigidity.