Replies

1. 
   Soultrain | Aug 30, 2005 08:00pm | #1

   Unless you have a specific place to drain the water, the only thing I can think of would be a big tarp tented in the middle.

   Other than that, you could lower the water level about 25% by draining manageable amounts each day BEFORE the monsoon hits.

   I don't really know what the big deal would be anyway, since the water will be everywhere wether it went into the pool first or not.

    

1. 
   caveman | Aug 30, 2005 08:29pm | #2

   The place to drain excess is not the problem. The issue is this pool is surrounded by a retaining wall that could slow down the drainage, depending on the amount of rain. Yes there is a drainage system in place for that area. It happened once and flooded the area with a couple inches of water.

   I do lower the level when heavy rains are expected and that is what I want to eliminate.

   The big deal is we got hammered last nite with rain...not forecasted either! This AM the water level was abot 1-2" from the top and it was still raining quite heavily. I couldn't go off to work without draining.  Your right that the water is everwhere when it rains, but that statement alone does not address the issues I have to deal with.

   Hence...I need some type of prevention system that I can turn on and off or an automatic system like a sump pump and float.

   edit...the tarp won't work here cuz the wind will only rip it down

   Edited 8/30/2005 1:48 pm ET by caveman

1. 
   bobl | Aug 30, 2005 09:14pm | #3

   I think that it will have to be built specifically for your set up.for example is your pump above the pool so u might have a shunt from the input of the pumphow does the water get to the pump? bottem drain, skimmer type input? 

   bobl          Volo, non valeo

   Baloney detecter

1. 
   caveman | Aug 30, 2005 10:07pm | #6

   The pump is above the pool and uses a skimmer. bottom drain and one sidewall port. It's balanced with 3 returns. I was thinking of using one of the returns at the pump/filter tank fitted with a bypass to dump the excess water. Possibly an electrically controlled valve, activated  by the float and using the pool pump to push the water out.

   I'm not really sure if this idea is feasible or not 

2. 
   jazzdogg | Aug 30, 2005 09:15pm | #4

   "Hence...I need some type of prevention system that I can turn on and off or an automatic system like a sump pump and float."

   Hi Caveman,

   You may have just answered your own question.

   You could install a second skimmer assembly, with its weir throat set higher than the primary, but lower than the coping, and install a float-operated sump pump at its bottom.

   Whenever the water level exceeded the threshhold of the primary skimmer by, say, 3-4 inches, the water would flow into the secondary skimmer, activate the sump pump, and be evacuated, keeping the pool from overflowing onto the pool deck.

   Of course, you could inadvertantly waste a lot of water if you tried to top off your pool and activated the sump pump, but the pool wouldn't overflow onto the deck as long as the sump pump could exhaust the water faster than it could be added to the pool.

   To the casual observer, it would look like just another skimmer and weir assembly.

   Good luck,

    -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

1. 
   caveman | Aug 30, 2005 10:09pm | #8

   Now that's an idea I like!!...I'll have to give it some thought

   Thanx 

3. 
   bobl | Aug 30, 2005 09:58pm | #5

   a thoughtthe problem you have is acommon one for water features, ponds etc.might check some sights for overflow solutions.but like pools, they are usuallu built in rather than added on, but some things they have might help. 

   bobl          Volo, non valeo

   Baloney detecter

1. 
   caveman | Aug 30, 2005 10:11pm | #9

   Didn't think of those water feature deals. Maybe I can find some ideas there as well 

4. 
   CapnMac | Aug 30, 2005 10:29pm | #12

   I need some type of prevention system

   Hmm, was just thinking (yeah, it's a risk, but living dangerous can be fun), what about a simple siphon?

   Pick a level, run pvc pipe up to the pool edge height, then across and down to where ever this will drain.  You could use a T instead of the second elbow, and collect a bit of rainwater to "prime" the siphon, too, one supposes.

   Nice thing about that is no switches, no pumps, no forgetting to turn on or off--just gravity.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

1. 
   caveman | Aug 30, 2005 10:45pm | #14

   >>Nice thing about that is no switches, no pumps, no forgetting to turn on or off--just gravity.<<

   That's what I'm thinking too...

   I'll have to put some real thinking effort into it and try and make it work for this. Sounds like what I want.

   One question though, don't I need some type of check valve in the 'T' to prime?  

1. 
   CapnMac | Aug 31, 2005 01:17am | #16

   Yeah, the T actually needs a big collector to be real effective.

   It occurs just now that an inverted J would work almost as well.  That, or an N loop (stock tank designs coming back to me, here--very much a cope with unattended water volumes).

   For an N, that's a pipe up, then down again (so it fills to pool depth), then legs up to the "full" point.  Looks like a stick-figure N of sorts laid out i nthe plumbign department. 

   A J is a bit simpler, but less foolproof.  Leg goes up inside of pool, up and over, then down to the "full" height.  The water depth has to go up enough for the siphon to start, but will "run" until it hits equalibrium.

   No extra holes in the pool, though, which the decorative fountain overflows usually have designed in from get go.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

2. 
   caveman | Aug 31, 2005 06:53am | #20

   The J or N arrangement sounds pretty good, but wouldn't it be a hassle to try and conceal it as a retrofit?

   The plan I have in mind now...thanks to Phills suggestion, would be a spillway. I would  bore under the concrete decking to tie into the existing skimmer with a 2" pipe. Then trench out about 150' so it exits to daylight in the valley. The only issue I see as a problem is snakes or mice could enter. If I put a grate or screen on the outlet, then that could possibly become blocked from all the insects, hair, leaves etc that the skimmer collects. I'd just have to keep an eye on it and clean if needed. Maybe a flapper would work instead?

   Another thought is this would also help with water level control during the winter from snow melt and rain, but I don't know if it is advisable to keep the level that high for an inground pool. I currently keep the level about 12-16" low during the winter months, but have to drain it when the floats(expansion devices for the fiberglass steps and seat) start pushing up on the cover. Plus, I'm sure the potential exists for freeze up if the overflow is just a small trickle and the drain pipe is not below the frost level. So maybe I'd have to pass on using it during the winter.

   Now that my wheels are turning, I would really like to come up with something that would work year round, but all I can come up with so far is to use the pump and float design. and in addition, I'd have to protect it from freeze up too.

     

3. 
   CapnMac | Aug 31, 2005 06:46pm | #25

   I put a grate or screen on the outlet, then that could possibly become blocked

   Put a trap in the output end--that will cut down on rodents.  If you can, put a grate on the pool side, as that will be easier to clean (or remember to clean).  Ok, so snakes & the like can get to the edge, but that's as far as they can go.  Grate at the end means anything inside piles up inside unable to get out, except back into the pool.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

4. 
   caveman | Aug 31, 2005 11:14pm | #26

   ahh...good point!! Put a grate on the inlet & trap on the outlet 

5. 
   CapnMac | Sep 01, 2005 01:19am | #27

   Put a grate on the inlet & trap on the outlet

   Yeah, cuts down on the number of water moccasins in the stock tank . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

6. 
   caveman | Sep 01, 2005 02:08am | #28

   ROAR... 

7. 
   CapnMac | Sep 01, 2005 06:11pm | #29

   ROAR

   Yeah, well, around here, you get not very far out of town, and "above ground swimming pool" is something you make by using a bulldozer to throw an impound berm up around a dry or semi-dry creek bed . . .

   Fancy ones have a bit of dockwork (keeps a person from having to walk in the hoofprints . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

8. 
   caveman | Sep 01, 2005 11:01pm | #30

   LOL...(keeps a person from having to walk in the hoofprints

    

   that water hole must sure get crowded at times

    

     

9. 
   CapnMac | Sep 02, 2005 12:45am | #31

   that water hole must sure get crowded at times

   Can.  Depends on how much rain there's been (and if a person was smart enough to dig a couple of tanks down the watershed while the cat was on site, too).

   Beeve will walk a mile & half to water (just on smell), IIRC.  Livestock don't much care how long you've been dozing in the float tube trying to nab that catfish for supper, either . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

2. 
   CapnMac | Aug 30, 2005 10:08pm | #7

   don't really know what the big deal would be anyway

   Well, his surrounding landscaping might not like the pH balance & chlorine levels in the pool water.  So, that could be a consideration.

   That still brings us back to "where to put the overflow?" though.

   Since it's pool water, he may not be able to run it into either a storm or into the sanitary sewer.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

1. 
   caveman | Aug 30, 2005 10:20pm | #11

   Where to dump the water is not a problem. I'm located up on a hill with a deep valley out front. But...it's one of those protected wetlands area. I do drain excess water ther now and before/during the winter with a couple 3/4" hose by siphoning, but it's a royal PITA.

   Never had any issues in the several yrs that I've been doing it there either

   Anyone know of any legal issues with dumping there? 

1. 
   rasconc | Aug 31, 2005 01:00am | #15

   Do you not have a backwash setup on your filter system?  That is how I used to lower mine and how son-in-law does his.  I ran his drain into swale behind house that goes to river.  His has a vinyl liner and has a drain about 4" below rim.   I can not see how regular pool water would be a problem for any vegatation.  Mine ran out to grass and shrubs and never hurt anything. 

   A few mutant crickets and three headed toads but I figured they were from the Nuc facility across the state line.

1. 
   caveman | Aug 31, 2005 05:45am | #18

   No backwash system here. Instead it uses 2 large filter canisters, and the only service required is to remove and flush the filters if the tank pressure increases by 5psi. We had a pool at our last house that had the backwash, but I like this type better. No maintenance!! No sand to replace either.

   I've heard conflicting comments about whether or not pool water would harm grass or vegetation, so I avoid doing it. The last thing I want to do is kill my golf course...er... I mean lawn LOL 

   Here's one half of it...

     

   
2. 
   rasconc | Aug 31, 2005 07:41am | #22

   Wow, that looks great!  I could see a severely loaded filter causing a concentration that would hurt, but I would be surprised if water with a ph that you can swim in would hurt anything.  My hot tub is a different story, I thought I would be smart and use the water from my Jacuzzi to pressure wash with the aid of a sump pump.  It was very chem laden.

3. 
   caveman | Aug 31, 2005 08:00am | #23

   Hmm...maybe your right. But when I drain the filter for winter closing, it leaves a brownish path where the water flows in the grass. Probably only 20-30 gallons or so. At least it does recover the following spring. 

2. 
   jpohja | Aug 31, 2005 03:41am | #17

   just curious: why can't pool water be run into a storm drain or sanitary sewer?  john

1. 
   CapnMac | Aug 31, 2005 06:41pm | #24

   why can't pool water be run into a storm drain or sanitary sewer?

   Some jurisdictions have rules on the content of anything run into a municipal sewer, storm or sanitary.  These jurisdictions will call pool water "contaminated" with chlorine or other treatment chemicals; or that it has an unacceptable pH level.  These juridictions will also treat a pool as a luxury item, sometimes.

   Now, on the face of it, that's silly, the pool water is cleaner, by chemistry or debris, than most other point sources in sewer systems.

   That does not prevent some AHJ from requiring places to capture all of their rainfall runoff and treat it before allowing any into the storm sewers.  Or from requiring expensive permits for pool overflow drain connections.

    Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

2. 
   PhillGiles | Aug 30, 2005 10:13pm | #10

   See lots of sump pumps around, usually fitted to a second skimmer cover (you did say inground pool: concrete ?), outrigged from the diving-board supports, or clamped to the ladder. These all get moved out of site when guests are voer swiming. If you want a fully automated permanent system, then you'll be needing an over-flow channel leading to a separate sump (2 to 3 feet of 24" concrete drain pipe on-end with a BIG sump pump sitting in it inder a full cover - I was asked to finish one of this type by disguising it as a wishing well.).

   .
   Phill Giles
   The Unionville Woodwright
   Unionville, Ontario
1. 
   caveman | Aug 30, 2005 10:33pm | #13

   Yes inground, but with a liner. The base is gunite...?? edit---or vermiculite?? One of those for sure

   The suggestion you offered...an overflow channel is doable too. That might even be a better solution as I could probably set it up to work by gravity instead of an elect dump pump.

   Thanks guys for the ideas and keep em coming.if there are anymore. I knew someone here could put me in the right direction

    

    

   Edited 8/30/2005 3:50 pm ET by caveman

3. 
   ponytl | Aug 31, 2005 06:23am | #19

   a few "If's"

   if you are on a hill

   if you can drill into the side of your skimmer

   I'd think... I'd find a way to fit a pipe high into the skimmer to act as an overflow and make sure the pipe runs downhill...

   just a thought

   p

1. 
   caveman | Aug 31, 2005 06:56am | #21

   I was typing that thought while you were posting...<g>

   thanx anyways though