The topic of sand point wells came up at work and started a great debate and I need some general information as to the installation of one….I know how they work just need some pointers on putting one in. As my buddy is looking at installing one for his pasture, soil is nearly all sand and should hit water within 25′ down. It is in Minnesota in the lakes area if this makes any difference.
Thanks in advance, I also understand there are some differences in well pipe especially in regards to the the place of origin say China for example …. I was told that the threads strip when pounding it into ground. Your thoughts and experiences please.
Replies
I have never driven a sand point, but I have washed a few through clay with a 2" casing. Although a bit different process than a sand point, basically, you are confronted with the same problem: pounding a 2" pipe into the ground.
We made a pounder out of a chunk of driveshaft and window sash weights. It's a mankiller, so we rigged up a tripod over the pipe with a pulley so we could pull down on a rope to lift the pounder.
We augured as far as we could before we started washing. Don't know if you would need to auger with a sand point.
We used 3 or 4 foot sections of pipe and kept adding them as we went. You can get special drive couplings.
You might find this helpful. http://www.fdungan.com/well.htm
See the links on the site also.
Also - The sandsucker well near the bottom of the page may be of interest.
Edited 8/20/2008 9:19 pm ET by HootOwl
Thanks Hooter, that was a great link.
Ebe
Got a neighbor/friend down the road a bit who owns a vacation property up in northern WI. Very sandy soil. Needed to drive a new sandpoint a couple years ago...and dreaded the thought, of course.
Eventually he had to do it and went to the local hardware store up there for the pieces and parts. Well...it turns out that so many folks have to do that .... that the hardware store has a gas-engine trailered rig to drive the points/pipe. They rent it out for about $50 a day, IIRC.
He was done in half a day and sitting in front of the lake with a beer in hand.
Maybe you'll be so lucky as to find the same thing...if the goin' gets tough.
We have sandy soil around here also, Many DIY'd there own wells by "sandsucking"
them. What you do is auger down as far as you can, then you start dropping the sandsucker down and pulling it back up. At the same time you set your casing,
The sandsucker is 2" pipe with a rope or chain on the top and a "flapper valve" in the bottom. When you drop it the flapper opens and the pipe fills with sand / mud that you then pull up and dump. have to keep some water in the casing as you go. As you create a void, the casing will drop or can be pushed down.
When you have enough casing in the ground , you simply dropped your wellpoint down. Usually we then pulled the casing out, but today you are required to use a "pitless connector", at least around here
Used to rent the sandsucker at the harware store
Gas Engine trailered rig
I was wondering if you know where he got the machine to drive the sand point. We are up in Crivitz and are trying to figure out the easiest way to pound ours. Any info you could share would be appreciated.
Kim Schmidt
[email protected]
About 1985 is when we got sick of hauling water in our camp in the woods in northern WI. After talking a lot [and argueing] I finally made a little winch with 3 1/2 hsp briggs. I turned a 2" diameter by about 3" long, drum, and mounted it on a slab of aluminum that was kicking around. With the help of a lawn mower gear reduction box I was able to run it at just the right speed.
We staked that to the ground and hung a pulley high up on a leaning tree. I cut an 8" maple down and used about a 5' piece for the hammer. By splitting that with a chainsaw and gougeing channels in each side big enough for the 2" pipe I nailed it back together. Now it could be raised over 2' each stroke.
I had learned in my old sailing days that you can put 3 loops around a pulley and draw a ship up to the dock and by slacking off the tension it would slip. We used that theory to raise and lower that maple block and sometimes it would drive the pipe down as much as 4" a drop and always an inch or so. I had 21' of pipe cut in half so we only had 1 joint. I drove all the pipe in and we found we had water at 17'. The actual pounding on took about 2 hours. I could have driven a couple more that day.
Now comes the problems. In theory you can suck water up 31'. In reality you can't. My research in the area was that 15' was the practical limit. You might be able to get 20' to work but it would take a lot of fiddling around and you'd be wrestling with it forever. In our case at 17' we finally dug a five foot hole and built a stone masonry wall with a lid etc. to allow the pump to be only 12' above the water line. That's an illegal well now. But it works.
So 25' would be impossible to suck water up. Or you would have to have a pipe big enough to lower a pump down. We're off the grid there so we use solar panels. I use a pump that can stand off and on electricity such as cloudy days and nights, so if it only grunts but can't actually pump it still doesn't burn out. So that's my experience.
That was a great story/post, reading it I just had to add that I was working a job a couple of years ago at an industrial power plant and we were doing condenser modifications, anyway when we got done with the work we had to clean up in there and that's when I first saw the thing.
"it" looked like a shop vac, the motor unit that unhooks from the drum, but it is sized to fit on a 55 gal drum and instead of hooking this thing up to electricity it is hooked to an air compressor.
I guess the air compressor is used to blow a turbine of some sorts, and I would imagine this is then used to create a vacuum.
There is a hose that comes out of it, the size of a fire hose, and we had the hose down 90 feet and it would still suck a golf ball through a garden hose. heaven forbid if you got your pants leg in the hose, one guy had a hickey on his leg that looked like he got hit with a golf ball.
"it" would easily pull water up 90 feet, I am reasonably sure something like this (especially for someone with your obvious creative talents) could be modified to work in a well application.
I just wanted to tell you in the hopes that the idea might help.
I live in SE Minnesota, near the Mississippi River, with sandy soil too. I put a sandpoint in four years ago. Used a fence post driver to pound the pipe in and it only took an hour, water is down about 19 feet. Bought the sandpoint and pipe at the local home center, and with a little pump we have all the water we need for the lawn and garden.
what size and kind of pipe did you use? Was any of it Chinese as my buddy is skeptical of using this as he feels the threads aren't as good as american brands.
Ebe
If you are all sand it is pretty easy. If you hit a layer of hardpan or a rock anywhere on the way down you can literally pancake the entire pipe.
Use a driving well cap to protect the top threads.
40 years ago tried to drive a well thru hardpan, 800# weight, just pounced on 2" well point until the pipe bent.
If really soft sand and near a lake, jetting in is probably easier.
Take a look at
http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/cwi/
you can probably find a well log with the actual soil strata in your area to be sure a well point is feasible (e.g no rock or hardpan)
For a DIY well in tougher soil conditions, including rock, the below thread has some ideas.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=20269.1
Thanks for the information, will come in useful.
Ebe