For those who haven’t heard of this type of window installation, it’s a regular window (sometimes DH, sometimes just a stationary sash) tucked on a gable wall just below, and parallel to the rake trim. It’s installed on a slant to match the rake angle.
I have an attic buildout to do and it’ll include installing two of these in a gable. Walls are 2×6 with 1/2 plywood sheathing, and 6″ cedar clapboards. I’ll be installing Andersen stationary casements (C135) about 12″ down from the bottom of the rake trim, roof pitch is 12/12.
I am thinking of building rough opening boxes with 2x6s, then inserting them into the wall (chopping out the necessary studs and sheathing). No headers or jacks though I’m thinking that I will double up the lumber on the RO boxes. Then panning the two lower sides with peel and stick membrane, the install, flash and trim as you would a normal window.
Anyone have a better idea?
Replies
I've called em "Witch's Windows" Your plan sounds good, just be sure to have nailbase for trim.
Lemme know how ya hang the curtains will ya?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
look up that thread "Quarter Deck"....we did a witch's window in that
red.... here's a link to that witch's window
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=83035.57Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I remember that thread now. Absolutely perfect example of what I was thinking. Thank you! How did you cut out the studs? I'm thinking start with a circular saw to get nice clean lines and then finish off with a sawzall?
you're thinking just the way i did itMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
do you have a finished picture of an exterior showing one of these windows? google image search came up empty. Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
here.... same thread...couple months later
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=83035.207
View ImageMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
and
View Image
end of job....
View Image
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 1/12/2009 9:38 pm ET by MikeSmith
Thanks Mike. I can't seem to get behind that one, just seems wrong.
Maybe if it was a clerestory angled with the gable. Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
i don't know what you mean by clerestory angled with the gableMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Something like this, but with the sill pitched also,
http://www.rjperry.com/show/i/012b.jpg Or like the windows on the left of this roof,
http://www.socketsys.com/toolsPHP/image_gd2969d.jpg No big thing, the angled window just seems so strange to me.
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
resolve this.... if there were no studs on the gable end ... what would happen to the gable end rafter ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Don't MAKE me get the popcorn cooking , AGAIN. Geeze youse guys.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I'm in agreement. It seems like the gable rafter is doing all the holding out there, esp. in this case with no overhang. I've always thought that the common studs between the top plate and the gable rafter were there to simply hold the sheathing and siding.
damn... well, apparently we're both wrong and on the road to perdition
ah, me... mama always said ther'd be days like thisMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
if there were no studs on the gable end ... what would happen to the gable end rafter
And if there were no studs under the load-bearing rafter plate, the whole roof would fall down.
But that's not the situation we're talking about.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
hah, hah, hah..... now who's being absurd ?
here... have a 'Gansett
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 1/13/2009 4:11 pm ET by MikeSmith
So, whats VR stand for?
And BTW - do you think there could be any probs with the mfg warranting it in that configuration?
Edited 1/11/2009 7:57 pm ET by Matt
It's "VT" for Vermont. That's what most folks around here know them as. I like witches window though. I need to go check Mike's thread.
Haven't any idea if this orientation would void a mfg. warrantee. At least with the Andersen casements we have an intergral, one-piece flange. That and attention to flashing details should keep things dry and will never have to hear from Andersen again (we'll hope)
I am thinking of building rough opening boxes with 2x6s, then inserting them into the wall (chopping out the necessary studs and sheathing). No headers or jacks though I'm thinking that I will double up the lumber on the RO boxes.
Remember that there's no such thing as a "non-bearing wall". While the eave walls bear the roof and ceiling load (and floor loads below), the gable walls are also supporting a portion of the roof (half the o.c. spacing plus the overhang).
Doubling the box might be sufficient, but it wouldn't hurt to use a vertical doubled header instead of flat.
Solar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Yeah, I've thought about that. There's no overhang and the rafters are 2x12. Are you suggesting a header over the entire diagonal opening, or just using vertical 2x6s on the uphill sides of the RO frame?
ahem.....imnsho.....
the gable rafter is vastly more supported than the common rafters and they all bear the roof
the only thing i worry about is wether you create a hinge on the gable end
in value framing , headers are not required to be load bearing in a gable wall, so unless there is some extraordinary load here a diagonal header does not have to be the same size as a header supporting the rafter ends or a 2d floor
you need good nailing for your trim and good detailing for your flashing... you don't need an oversized headerMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
in value framing , headers are not required to be load bearing in a gable wall,
I assume you mean Optimal Value Engineering (OVE) framing.
But a window opening in a gable wall is not the same thing as a window opening in a gable.
In a 1st floor gable wall, the opening has a second floor band joist as a "header" and will not likely need anything more.
Similarly, in a 2nd floor gable wall, the opening has a ceiling joist "header".
In a roof gable, the opening has a rafter as a "header". That may be more than sufficient, but you'd better know that.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
i do know that.... and that is why the codes don't require it
a typical gable rafter bears on the plate and thrusts against the ridge....JUST LIKE THE COMMON RAFTERS
roof load is theoretically less on a gable end rafter than on a common rafter
the common might be carrying 16" of roof while the gable is only carrying 8"
generally speaking, of courseMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
a typical gable rafter bears on the plate and thrusts against the ridge....JUST LIKE THE COMMON RAFTERS
A gable rafter does not direct its loads like a common rafter. There is no out-thrust, since the tributary roof loads are resolved vertically downward through the gable studs.
And, because the tributary loads are resolved only through the gable studs, removing any gable studs requires determining if the loads can be successfully carried to adjoining studs without an additional beam (header).
roof load is theoretically less on a gable end rafter than on a common rafter
the common might be carrying 16" of roof while the gable is only carrying 8"
Not necessarily. That woud be true only if there were no overhang. If the roof framing is 16" oc and there is a 16" overhang, then there is 50% more tributary roof load on the gable rafters as on the common rafters. If the overhang is 24", there is twice the load on the gable rafters.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Edited 1/12/2009 7:01 pm ET by Riversong
the gable studs pick up the load after the fact
and they do act just like commonb rafters, there just happens to be an end wall connected at that point
it's chicken and egg
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
the gable studs pick up the load after the fact...and they do act just like commonb rafters, there just happens to be an end wall connected at that point
The rafter that's on top of a gable wall is merely a slanted version of the band joist sitting on your load-bearing walls. Each is fully supported by the studs underneath and all loads are resolved straight down.
There is no out-thrust on the gable rafters any more than there is with common rafters supported by a load-bearing ridge, which also resolves the forces vertically downward.
Ain't no chicken and egg. Just egg.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
bs....
if you support the ridge and start sistering rafters.... the gable ends are no fifferent than the commons
then you enclose the gable ends with studs
of course it's chicken & egg
a tilted bandjoist ?....you're reachingMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
if you support the ridge and start sistering rafters.... the gable ends are no fifferent than the commons... then you enclose the gable ends with studs
You could also support the band joist and then fill underneath it with studs and plates and all the loads will still go down through the studs.
The order of fabrication doesn't matter.
You've got egg on your face ;-)
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
if the order doesn't matter then it is chicken and egg
next lemme axe u this one :
if u stud a wall , does the last stud carry more weight than a field stud ?... bet u say yes !
but it's really NO.....
what is the difference between a gable end rafter....and a common rafter..... if you don't stud the gable wall ?..... nothing.... until you alter it after the factMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
Are you simply being argumentative? Because you can't possibly be that ignorant of the physics of building loads.
if the order doesn't matter then it is chicken and egg
Whether you build the understructure or the overstructure first doesn't change the way the loads are resolved to the ground once it's all complete.
There is no chicken, there is only egg (the structure).
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Are you suggesting a header over the entire diagonal opening
With no overhang and 2x12 rafters, there's not a lot of roof load that can't be supported over a wide opening.
All I'm saying is that any interruption in a repetitive-member framing system must be designed to carry whatever loads are above it.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes