OK, guys, what kind of trouble am I getting myself into?
The site has limited space available and “going down” would definitely make sense in a new build. But this is an old frame farmhouse without adequate foundation, sagging as it starts to rot into the ground. The framing is worth saving — it just needs something under it. Original plan was for 4-ft of blocks and a crawlspace. That has evolved to 9-ft walls and a basement. Moving mechanicals and laundry into a basement would certainly free up a lot of room, I have to admit.
How would you support the existing structure while excavating? I generally prefer reinforced poured walls but laying up blocks would probably be easier with this. Maybe put up wall as we go for safety? The house is too low and really should go up several inches for better drainage. A rear addition is over a newer slab, though. Guess it can be a split-level. It needs new windows and siding but I want to wait until it is level and square before I start that!
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should be no problem, house movers do it all the time.
you may well be able to several things to enable the house movers job to go easier, thus saving yourself some money, stuff like demo/removal of siding etc to allow for installation/insertion of beams to be raised.
i would think that it would be easy to lift and shore a house from only two sides thus allowing access for work from two sides. bobcat out the basement, form and pour, lower the structure.
To clarify, one portion of the house is about 150 years old. Appears to be 4x6 timbers (in various stages of decay) set on field stones. Floor support is 2x8 on 24" centers, m/l. The other (older) half is similar, but has a puncheon floor.The walls are solid enough for jacking but would need fairly continuous support. Trying to find "level" may be a bit of a challenge; I may have to measure down from the first-floor ceiling. A chimney needs to come down, which will make raising the whole thing several inches easier.I imagine tons of blocking and beams to carry the wall loads will be in order. I might also lay up the wall as we go, for safety's sake. This is a new one on me and I will be glad when this phase is over.
The basic principles are fairly simple for a job like this, but the devil is in the details. - lol
You need to find a house mover or a contractor who has done this and get their input. Also, your local permitting authority will certainly have info about footings, basement walls, etc.
Think this over carefully - a demo and rebuild may be less costly.
"a demo and rebuild may be less costly."Very highly likely!
Been there
Done that
Got the T-shirt
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If there is space on site, the cheapest, easiest and safest way to do that is to have a house mover move it over, do the foundation, then move it back on top.
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I'm always amazed by how few beams house movers put under the places they raise. They don't by any stretch pick up all the bearing points. Somehow it seems to work. Around here they seem not to move the house, but just lift it up so you can work underneath, then lower it again.
I've done it both ways. Just my opinion that it is easier and safer to move it back and forth.Matter of fact, depending on the site, one option would be to pour the new basement and then just move it once - onto the new foundation.
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As others have mentioned, house movers do this all the time. Whether or not your rim joists are strong enough to function as load-bearing beams temporarily is a question nobody from BT can answer definitively, as that requires eyes-on-site...but you mentioned they are 4x6 timbers, so your chances are somewhat better. Get a pro in there and have him give you the skinny on that aspect. It might be simpler than you think.
However--I disagree with Piffin on very few things; but I'm about to do so now, with the utmost of respect.
It's true that in this type of job it may be a bit more trouble to erect forms and pour the foundation directly under a jacked-up house sitting on caissons, but: IMO it is a safer procedure than pouring a nice new foundation and then moving an old house over onto it. This is because old houses that have been moved are almost guaranteed to be out of square by a substantial amount, and any error in measuring the exact, precise dimensions and shape of the house will result in a foundation that is literally cast in concrete but which the house will not fit on.
Highly embarrassing, to say the least.
It is relatively easy to measure the length and breadth of the house; it is not easy to do an exact take-off of the shape of its footprint. The only dummy-proof way I know of doing that is by projecting the house's shape directly downwards to the ground with plumb bobs dropped from each corner.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
we don't disagree at all. I simply did not mention that step, but there are ways to make sure to map a proper footprint so you can land in the right place unlike poor Dorothy did when she went to OZ and landed on the wicked witch.
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...so you can land in the right place unlike poor Dorothy did when she went to OZ and landed on the wicked witch.
Well, the Munchkins thought she made a perfect landing, and considering that by landing where she did she wound up with the ruby slippers, maybe it was the 'right place' for her, too!
You're right about the difficulty and danger of digging or operating machinery under a jacked-up house. I will probably never forget the time I almost brought down a house on top of myself and a helper because the F.E. loader I'd rented for the day had different foot controls than I was used to...and I damned near ran it smack into stack of cribbing before I remembered that there were no brakes on that puppy as it was equipped with hydrostatic drive. The ½ second it took for my brain to wake up and override the 40+ years of learned muscle reflex in my right leg ranks right up there with the scariest split seconds I've ever spent doing anything!
In the final analysis, I think that the best all-around way to do this sort of job is to dig a new hole out in the clear and then move the old building over it. That way you don't have to dig under it, and you can still drop plumb bobs to set your forms to. (And you can shoot in your gravel with a stone slinger, instead of doing it with a loader like I did that time, LOL....)
Once the house is jacked up, moving it a short distance--say, 1½X its own width--doesn't cost that much more for a house-moving contractor who already has all the I-beams and caged rollers and stuff needed. Last one I did was a while ago, but the additional cost to move the building 20 feet forward was only $500.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
LOL, as I was thinking further on this - I remember how many times I have had to build a house over concrete foundations off square by 2" or walls not straight. There is quite a paradox in thinking of the idea that you spend a career looking for a foundation guy who can actually pour a straight square foundation, and then tell him, "On this one, we need to match the old house which is off by 3" over thataway!
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To the OP, I'd talk to a house mover as others have suggested, but if you just go up with it it is something most competent contractors can do. You have a lot more structure than I usually get to work with. I typically see no foundation, no floor and 2x4 framing on 24-48" centers and 4x6's at the corners if I am lucky. It takes thinking about it like you would framing. Level, square and plumb is key when building your bracing even though the building likely isn't. Typically shear failure is the big concern, and diagonal bracing comes into play. You can usually rent most of the stuff you need for the job including beams for lifting. With the advent of big hydraulic cranes they are a great way to do projects like this. There is nothing wrong with the old technology though house jacks work great as do hydraulic jacks. It is a lot easier to adjust for level with a jacks than a crane too. We have a 6 hydraulic jack house moving system that is a fantastic tool for this kind of thing. <!----><!----><!---->
I think just going straight up is the cheapest, but there are lots of other ways to do it. I think moving it twice as Piffin suggested is the easiest. I have also been on projects where we dismantled and reassembled piece by piece, and one recently where we dismantled in large sections: Roof in 2 pieces, and whole walls... and reassembled. That project went pretty well, but I wouldn’t do it that way again (I wouldn't have done it that way once, but I was an owners rep. on the project and had no say over means and methods). <!----><!---->
As far as going in the new foundation I have found 2 things that work for us. The best seems to be have a good surveyor survey the inside and outside corners of the house prior to moving, and then have him set offsets for the concrete guy, and even check after it is formed but before it is poured if you are really concerned. The other is far more crude and difficult but works: Make the building fit the foundation. We have had good luck building our bracing and modifying it when the time comes that we can use it to pull push and force the structure square/to fit the foundation with some careful jacking and winching. <!----><!---->
Rob
Going straight up is only cheapest if you just consider that cost, but there are others.For instance, to move a 24'W house, you only need beams about 30' long, sometimes less, but to jack it up and hold it while you excavate and build a basement in under it, the cribbing supporting those beams needs to be back from the edge of the hole - how much depends on soil type and depth of hole, but you would normally need a beam at least 40' long and much deeper cross section to support the structure overhead. That increases costs noticeably.Also, excavating in under a house is more unsafe and slower. Slow because the operator needs to watch out that he doesn't knock the stuff overhead with each movement. Slower because sometimes a smaller machine must be used. Slower because he likely has to approach the whole dig from one end instead of three sides and has to keep pulling material back, handling it 2-3 times to get it out.BUt if all we look at is the house mover's bill, yeah, that part can be cheaper to just jack it up.
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It is true it can be cheaper to move it out of the way on some jobs, and with a full basement moving it is likely a better option if you have the real-estate. We have only done one full basement going straight up (and about to start another on a 6,000 SF commercial building), and typically move the house out of the way if we can in that situation. I like going straight up because I can do all the work myself that way and typically don't need to deal with anybody else, and I have spent half my life (it seems at least)digging under houses or other obstructions so it is almost second nature for me. Plus I'm the first in my family in the last 8 generations not to start my career in an underground mine. I'm half mole, and don't like seeing the sun if I don't have to.<!----><!----><!---->
We typically have type A soils (per OSHA) to deal with which makes shoring easier and holes smaller. <!----><!---->
Every job is different though and everybody has their own way of doing things. It is foolish, but this is the kind of job I would jump at. If it's easy I'll let somebody else deal with it. There are much easier ways to make a living, but that's boring imo. <!----><!---->
Rob
" I'm the first in my family in the last 8 generations not to start my career in an underground mine. I'm half mole, and don't like seeing the sun if I don't have to."It says a lot that you are comfortable with it!
The guys I learned from were hard rock miners, but I like open sky and wind myself.
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dko,
Time for some clear thinking here..
I bought my house they had spent a great deal of their budget jacking up the house doing exactly what you are planning on doing.. In fact so much of their budget that not enough was left to properly repair all the many shortcomings it had.. As a result they dressed up the inside as cheaply as they could and when they weren't really happy with the result bailed..
I bought it out of foreclosure because except for the new basement great insulation and electrical it was a mess and they couldn't sell it for a fraction of what they owed on it..
I bought it as a teardown and did eventually do just that..
Among the sins it had were extremely bouncy floors due to some of the floor joists going one way and some going another direction.. that was fine when everything sat on piers but as it spanned the basement it resulted in 2x8s 24"OC spanning 18 feet with a stair case on one of the 2x8's
If you are a DIY type guy it's relatively easy to start from scratch and wind up with something decent compared to fixing something that's less than it should be into something that you're proud of..
True you can make a pigs ear into a silk purse but the cost of doing so should discourage many from attempting it..