Does anyone have any tips for installing beadboard w/ chairail? Never done it before. Just getting some 4 x 8 sheets from Lowes and will be installing it with chair rail molding. Is there a standard height it should end at? should it be glued and nailed or is nailing enough. Should all seams end on a stud? Also is there a chair rail made that will sit right on top of the beadboard? or do I have to rout out a groove on the chair rail? One other obstacle, the baseboard heat in this room goes right up to the wall corners with no end caps, how do I handle the beadboard in those corners? Does the baseboard need to be changed? Alot of questions but I appreciate any input. Thanks
Ron
Replies
I think the height is somewhat arbitrary, a function of the other elements in the room. I'm sure someone here will post a definitive answer and pronounce all other answers to be wrong. You could make it line up with the doorknobs, or the countertop, or some other existing item. Or you could make it 30" which is about right.
Yes thereare several pieces of trim that would work. They will have a 1/4" (approx) rabbet along one edge, which slips over the edge of the paneling. Glueing is nice because it reduce the amount of nails. You can usually put many nails where they will be covered by the base and the top trim, and a few nails down the joint. If there is sheetrock behiond the paneling, you don't have to nland the joints on studs, but it nails better if you do.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
You want sheetrock behind it, because it's easier to seal a full wall of sheetrock than have a seam halfway up between the beadboard and the rock. DAMHIKT, but it involves my dad's place.
The corners will be tricky, because taped rock often curves at the end (the mud kind of tapers out from the corners, so they're not a true square). Not a problem if the beadboard is thin, trickier if it's thick. Ideally, you want a cap molding that you can plane to fit the wall there and other bumpy spots. Get a good smoothing plane for this, or at least a block plane.
I recently installed 1/2" MDF beadboard that I got at a local lumberyard. Not too much more expensive than the 1/4" ply that is at Home Depot, and looks nicer because the beads are more defined. Comes primed in white, so if you were looking for a woodgrain look, it won't work. Local moulding yard (Anderson & McQuaid in Cambridge MA, worth a visit if you're local) had a nice cap with built in 1/2" rabbet. Used white caulk to take care of the uneven old plaster wall. Didn't worry about seams and studs becuase it was going over top of existing wood wainscoting.
hi Alec
I saw your post on the Finehomebuilding site re: beadboard installation. Do you remember the lumber yard that had the 1/2 inch thick MDF primed beadboard. I am doing a similar job.
thanks
Dan de Angeli
Handy Dan,
Sorry that I have not logged into this site in a while to check messages. I got the 1/2" beadboard at Arlington Coal and Lumber in Arlington Heights. And, the cap that I used at the top came from Anderson and McQuaid in Cambridge. They have a great selection if you haven't been there. A little hard to find the first time. Near the Fresh Pond Rotary off of Concord St.Alec
Edited 2/2/2006 11:07 am ET by AlecS
Elcid, what type of glue do you recommend I use for this, also what would be a good size nail (pneumatic) to use ?
Hi
I installed a kit from lowes that had base board, bead board & chair rail.
It comes in white or wood grain and was easy to use.
It's not high end, but it looked nice for what it is
Time to watch the PATRIOTS PARADE!!!!
Steve P
Before you go slapping glue all over the back of the panels, think of the poor sap years in the future who has to remove the stuff! I'd vote for a few well placed nails (hidden under the base and cap), and some filler over the nails that you can't hide with trim. Someone (perhaps even you) will thank you someday.
Ron,
If your drywall is in very good shape (flat, clean, good paint) you could get away with carpenters yellow glue. The best would be construction adhesive (liquid nails, panel adhesive, PL premium etc.). With construction adhesive you can fill small gaps if your wall is not very flat and it will hold for as long as the substrate is in good condition.
If you do it right, I wouldn't be concerned about the difficulty of removal. Do a good job now and forget about it.
Jon Blakemore
My point about the future "poor sap" was not to say that the beadboard would be removed because it was poorly installed, but rather because someday the room might get remodeled. The owner's tastes might change (especially if the house is sold), or the usage of the room might change.
Having just removed a lot of 70's vintage wood paneling installed by the previous owner, I am very grateful that no glue was used. Otherwise, I would have been into a lot more work refinishing the plaster instead of just patching some cracks and painting.
Alecs,
I definetely understand where you're coming from. The house my wife and I just bought had wallpaper everywhere.
But, he's putting the beadboard up because he wants it there. The quality compromise for a future owner is not worth it. Unless he's going to sell in the next two years, I would not give any consideration to the future owner. If they really want the beadboard removed, they can deal with the issues.
Jon Blakemore
It is called chairail because of its intended purpose. How high are the chairs in that room that you want to keep from scraping up the wall?
As a purely decorative thing, it varies with the size of th eroom and other elements therein. 30" to 36" is common. I see a lot in bathrooms at more like 40" to 42" because that get's it above the pedestal sinks and their accoutrements.
Try to land the seams on studs but if you ahve a solid backing to glue to, you can get by without that worry.
I would remove the baseboard first, install the wainscot, and then but new base to the heaters.
Princeton classics makes two or three cap profiles for this. Shown here as "back bands"
http://sanfordandhawley.com/princeton%20classic%20mouldings.html
it's a long load time for this link
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I've done this a couple of times recently. Use plywood rather than drywall as a substrate. Match plywood and drywall thickness, and make the wood/drywall joint a couple of inches below the chair rail. With plywood you can just tack the beadboard up, with a bit of cement as well...no need to end on studs. For the chair rail I glue a strip to the stock chair rail (parting bead works well), then just hang that on the top edge of beadboard. --Steve
Liquid Nails type glue works well, but be careful about getting too thick of a bead. PL Premium is a urethane version of Liquid nails, and it stays soft for a lot longer time...the label says you can reposition for up to 30 minutes. Roll on a coat of yellow glue.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
What is "parting bead"? Also, how do you handle inside corners where the beadboard meets up? Is it best to butt them up and caulk or should some type of molding be used to hide the corners?
Parting bead is the moulding used in a double hung wood window to separate the sash. Most yards will have it. It just happens to be the right size for this. I use small cove moulding in the inside corners, and an outside corner moulding on the outsides. Attached are a couple of examples...
That's an excellent idea. I like that look a lot. Keep 'em coming....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
Ron,
It sounds like you are using Georgia Pacific Ply Bead panels. I have used them quite a bit, and once they are painted they look great. A few tips for ya, be careful about the sheets you select. I don't think there quality control is all that great, because many of the sheets are not routed deep enough. A good sheet will have a fully rounded bead, make sure all the beads are fully rounded over; because one side of the sheet might look good but the other end may have several "flat" beads. Also many sheets will have a lot of "tear out" on the face veneer.
The tear out is not as big a deal, wood putty and a light sanding will hide it, but if the sheets not fully routed, the panels will look terrible once painted. (sort of like the cheap paneling of the 70's)
I generally go right over the drywall using liquid nails on the back side and nailing into the studs, spacing nails every 8 inches or so. For covered porches I will strap 12" on center because the product is southern yellow pine and will bow if not held securely.
Work right up from the floor and place your baseboard over the sheet, this will help hold it flat to the wall. Also to get more out of each sheet I will generally (for an 8" high baseboard) start 6" up from the floor and use scrap underneath along the floor for a backer to fill the space.
I like to cap it by using a 2 piece chair rail, I will nail the chair rail directly over the sheet then place a cap piece over the top to hide the sheet product. This makes the chair rail stand out more and I think it looks nicer. Although depending on the rest of the trim in the house this may not work.
As far as height goes, a general rule is 1/3 the height of the wall, but your eye should be the determine factor. Also if you are doing a kitchen an nice thing to do is to cut the sheets 6' and top it with a plate rail instead.
I posted pics in thread# 32459.2 if you are looking for ideas. (I'd repost them here but I am running out of space! I have to figure out how to delete old attachments!)
I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!
Hi Manroot:
Can you please post your pictures of your beadboard project or post a link. I'm new here and can't seem to find them using the reference number
thanks
Handy Dan
Dan,
Here you go. I haven't been on this forum in a while, I had to search for them! I've done two covered porches with this beadboard as well. It looks really good painted. The only thing I have noticed is the beadboard on the two covered porches seem to attract dirt. I don't know if it's just the way the house is oriented on the lot or from the beadboard it self. I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!
Thank you so much. They look really nice. I have done three porch ceilings and am about to do my first walls in a small mudroom. I am considering using panels constructed to look like beadboard and frame them in 5/4 stock as described in this Georgia Pacific article.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_improvement/home_improvement/1275741.html?page=1&c=y
Was this your approach, or did you build the wainscot with individual bead board? One concern I have is the thinness of the panels and that awful hollow sound they make when you tap them..
Your thoughts or anyone else reading are most welcome
Handy Dan
I use Georgia Pacific's "ply-bead". It's basically a 4x8 sheet of 5/8" yellow pine plywood, with beads routed on the face. Once installed it has a solid feel and you shouldn't get that 'hollow' sound like you do with other thinner sheet products.
I installed mine in a similar fashion to the article you mentioned with a few differences.
1) In the photo's I posted I used an 8" baseboard with a 1 1/2" cap on top, (not pictured). So I run the sheet of ply-bead down to 6" above the floor. When all the ply-bead is up I cut 2 or 3 inch wide strips with the left over scrap, and place it on the floor to give me solid nailing. The baseboard is then nailed over the top of the ply-bead. This obviously makes the baseboard stick out more, but it allows me to use a full basecap, and looks a lot better, (to me anyway). All the doorways are cased with 1 5/8" thick plinth blocks, so I had plenty of depth to work with. My approach may not work in modern houses with the thin clamshell mouldings.
2) Around the windows I used the same technique as the article did for the baseboards. I routed a rabbet on the back side of the window casings, so instead of butting the ply-bead up to the side of the window casings, it actually slides under the casings, by a quarter to a half inch. There are a few advantages to this. First you will never see a gap between the window casing and the ply-bead. The ply-bead and the casing can move independently of each other for seasonal movement and a tight fit is still achieved. Also you don't have to be as exact in fitting the ply-bead. You make the rabbet the exact depth of the ply-bead and a 1/4, 1/2 or 3/4 inches wide. So when the window casing goes on you have a little 'play' room under the moulding.
3) For the chair rail I used a two piece set up. I install the ply-bead to just under my finished height. Then I install the chair rail over the ply-bead; just as I did the baseboard. I then put a 3/4" cap over the top of this to cover the sheet product. Again, this looked better to me. I did a bathroom recently where I routed a groove in a piece of 3/4 oak for a chairrail, because the room was small and my other method would have stuck the cap out to far.
I hope this helps, and I hope I didn't go to over board with my explanation!I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!
That explanation is helpful. I do not have a router, so I am interested in this approach. I assume that the 8" baseboard is a "1 by 8" board. On top what is the name of the kind of molding you used? Also did you attach the beadoard to the wall with cement or nails, or does it "float" somehow. I think that might be the appeal of the Pop Mechanics approach is that no glue is used to secure the panel.
thanks so much for your help
Handy Dan
I nailed to the studs, but I also used liquid nails. I've found the yellow pine bows too much, so liquid nails in between studs helps keep the panels flat. The baseboard is 3/4 x8" poplar, and I used a standard Scotia basecap. Nailing the baseboard and chair rail over the top of the sheet goods also helps to keep it flat. (The rabbets could easily be made on a tablesaw)I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!
Many thanks for your guidance. You have really helped light the way!
Handy Dan
How do you think beadboard would look in a small bathroom, real small. you think it will over power the room.. 2+3=7
I used it on a bathroom remodel last year. I used the cellular PVC panels with a two part chair rail. The bathroom was a standard 5x8' with bathtub/shower along back wall. The beadboard did not over pwer the room, even though I wrapped it over the sink backsplash. Of course, the client has the final word...
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
I used red oak bead board in a small bathroom remodel last year and it looked pretty good. I lined the chair rail height to match the height of the backsplash on the vanity, to keep one clean simple line around the room. It came out really nice.
For the chair rail I used a piece of 1x4 oak, with a simple round over, and rabbetted a slot in the back to slide it over the beadboard. (To keep the profile as flat as possible, because it was a real small bathroom.)I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!
I've been thinking of using the GP stuff for a living room ceiling in my place. Will Liquid Nail spread over the back of the ply-tanium sheets work well enough for an interior ceiling install or will I have to do a lot of mechanical attaching as well?
We are going for a cottage feel in that room and I though the Ply-tanium will fit the bill. I'm also a little concerned about the extra weight. The house is a 1948 kit built ranch with 2x4 ceiling joists 24 OC (I think).
I always nail. I use liquid nails with the GP ply-bead because it has a big tendency to bow. I put a few wide zig zagging beads of LN on the backs of the panels but I will always nail to joists/strapping or studs.
Liquid nails is extremely strong but I wouldn't use it as the only fastener, especially for a ceiling installation.
As for the weight, The panels themselves are not really that heavy. If your joists are in good condition you shouldn't have a problem. If the look 'iffy' or you are unsure, check with your local building inspector. If he can't give you an answer he can direct you to someone that can.I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!
I use the PL Premium polyurethane on the back of the Plybead, and I fasten with nails (or countersunk screws if it's steel studs). You can also shoot short brads or 23 gauge pins at an angle into the beadboard to hold it to the sheetrock while the glue dries. Always prime front and back and edges before you attach it to the walls.
You need to prime and finish with latex, not oil, so it can pass water vapor. Read the Georgia Pacific instructions.
Billy
how small?
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I want to re-do my covered porch this spring. What type of beadboard did you use for the ceiling, and how did you install it? Can you install directly to the ceiling rafters, or is an underlayment layer necessary. I'd love to find something factory primed.
As I mentioned in my other posts, I use Georgia Pacific's ply-bead. It's a 5/8" thick yellow pine plywood, with the beads routed in one face. For the covered porches I've done, I strapped over the ceilings joists, at 12" OC. It doesn't come pre-primed, but it doesn't take long to paint.
Also for covered ceilings, I pre-finish the sheets. I prime the sheets, front and back, and paint the finish color on as well. After wards you just have to touch up the nail holes.I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!
KGambit - how did you clean up the seams in the ceiling that run across the beads? That is, the seams where the 8' sides meet. Wood filler?
No cleaning up is needed. Be careful lining up the seams and they will be invisible. Although you have to be careful when handling the sheets. The bead on the edge breaks easily.I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!