Replies

1. 
   theslateman | Mar 08, 2008 04:50pm | #1

   Your feelings are correct. Distance yourself from the bidder who would caulk the flashings.

2. 
   Piffin | Mar 09, 2008 12:34am | #2

   That second guy who tries to glue to the brick ain't no skilled craftsman. He is all hack and no flashing. The caulked joint will last only long enough for his tail lights to sdisappear around the corner.

    

    

   Welcome to the
   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
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1. 
   Svenny | Mar 09, 2008 01:20am | #5

   At the risk of being labeled a hack, I will say that on most reroofs I find no need to grind out the joints. When I remove the old flashing the joint is is cleared out, and I don't need to regrind. When I have a chimney built I always make sure the bricky rakes out the flashing joints. So I wouldn't be so quick to assume a roofer is incompetent because he doesn't get a grinder out on every chimney. I find it necessary on only about ten percent of my jobs.John Svenson, builder,  remodeler,  NE Ohio

1. 
   calvin | Mar 09, 2008 03:43am | #6

   John, I think the questionable roofer is not installing the counterflash in a brick or cut joint-just nailing it off over the step and caulking the #### outta it.

   I agree that if there was counterflash and you remove it you should be able to clean out and seal the new flash in the joint.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

    

1. 
   Hazlett | Mar 09, 2008 02:02pm | #9

   calvin--- i am just a few miles down the road from svenny------and while I think you and he are basically correct( that is you "should" be able to re-use the existing kerf)
   I find that I almost always go ahead and get out the grinder anyway 1) it only takes a few minutes to grind it
   2) grinding my own means I am not at the mercy of the previous guys' location
   3)I can grind the existing kerf a bit deeper and cleaner---which makes the installation much faster( actually save more time with a clean deep kerf--than the time spent grinding it)
   4)-most importantly---old houses---the chimney is often a tarred,caulked sloppy mess right at the existing flashing line--- grinding a new kerf--lets me move things up a course or so---and cover up 90 years of Karnak smears with new,clean flashing

   BTW--- sphere mentioned a trick with a pop rivet--which is a good idea--- I have occasioanlly done the same thing with stainless zip screw
   stephen

1. 
   calvin | Mar 09, 2008 02:53pm | #10

    

   You mention tar.

    

   While roof goop has it's place,

   I cringe when I see it from the ground.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

    

2. 
   Hazlett | Mar 09, 2008 04:02pm | #11

   which is exactly why I grind my chimneys---so I can raise the counter flashing a brick course--and cover up 80-90 years of previous workers sins, LOLOf course--- the down side to that--among others--is that sometimes the counter flashing won't be quite in the proportion you would like it to be.
   stephen

3. 
   seeyou | Mar 09, 2008 04:43pm | #12

   One of the call backs, we've been getting a little too frequently is the caulk shrinking a little when we use the old joint. On new work, we use a diamond blade and there's not much to fill, but where the old flashing has been pulled out the joint is pretty wide. If we don't have caulk (backing) rod handy, we've had a couple of cases where the Geocel will shrink a little and break the bond at the top.

   The guy that does most of my flashing (Dave), has taken to carrying a bucket of sand with him. He throws some against the wet caulk after he tools it. Seems to slow the curring time and provides a little strength. It also disquises the 2300. We used to carry several colors to try and match the mortar, but it still looked like caulk. Now, we just use clear and sling some sand on it. About every other new job we do has a sand pile for the masons, so he fills his bucket up there.

   Re: the moving up a course to hide tar mess is a trick we often use. Also, the way we operate, we will go measure the chimney 1st if it's a reflash only. If it's new work and I have plans or a reroof and I've measured it up, I already have the info I need. I then make up a flashing kit for each job. I tend to make my flags a little larger than what was there previously, so some grinding is usually necessary in any case. I think everyone that does flashing for me carries a cordless grinder. I have templates for each roof pitch, so I can stomp out blanks on the foot shear. I then bend a bunch at the same time. The flasher can fly thru the install process, since he's not sitting on the roof fabbing. http://grantlogan.net/

    

   Today we's learnin' about rawks. They's all kinds of rawks. These [picks up rock] is rawks which you throw. These here [throws rock at Rusty] is rawks that you get hit with.  E.Cuyler

4. 
   theslateman | Mar 09, 2008 05:56pm | #13

   Cal,

   Hows this one rate on the "cringe" scale ??

    

   View Image

5. 
   calvin | Mar 09, 2008 06:26pm | #14

   Gonna take one hell of a counter flash AND some serious chipping to make that right and pretty at the same time............

   Chimney rebuild?A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

    

6. 
   theslateman | Mar 09, 2008 06:40pm | #17

   Cal,

   That was from a job a few years ago. House had changed hands and the new owners wanted the work done that I had quoted two years prior --- to the sellers.

   We rebuilt the other chimney, re did all the closed valleys with open ones and reflashed that chimney.

   It should have been rebuilt, but the sellers told the buyers it had been pointed up.

   I don't have a finished shot but heres one with the prep work done.

   The other chimney has been topped, lined with stainless and awaiting roof flashing.

    

   View Image

   View Image

    

   
7. 
   calvin | Mar 09, 2008 06:28pm | #15

   And how bout the possibilities with that chimney so close to the valley...............

   wow, addition sometime or another?A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

    

8. 
   theslateman | Mar 09, 2008 06:57pm | #18

   Cal,

   No that is from the original build. Both the closed valley and chimney were both leaking profusely.

   Here are a couple more from the exploratory phase.

   I'll be working next door to this house in a month or so -- I'll try and get some after shots then.

    

   View Image

    

   View Image

    

   View Image

    

   View Image

   
9. 
   calvin | Mar 09, 2008 07:03pm | #20

   The goop adds time.

   And usually confuses the "where's it coming from'' issue.

   As I said earlier-it has it's place-but I'm thinking you should never see it on the finished product.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

    

10. 
    theslateman | Mar 09, 2008 07:06pm | #21

    Cal,

    I agree, nothing looks more terrible than a new roof with a gunked up chimney flashing. And conversely a well done flashing is a beautiful sight.

    Walter

11. 
    Sphere | Mar 09, 2008 06:39pm | #16

    Arrghh..that is just sooooo ugly. LOL

    I bet the leak they were chasing was somewhere else too..I love it when the amazing karnak gets out and goops everthing in sight..and missed the missing slate ( or similar) a foot above.

    Like Grant said earlier, I saw the Geocel ( desert tan IIRC) failing prematurely, but the clear was holding up just fine..maybe a diff. formula or something.

    I've now gone back to Lexel Clear ( ABC didn't supply it, so Geo was the norm) , but not doing the volume I did working with Grant, I have more waste , the tubes do not last after opening as well as Geo. And I believe it is about 2$ more per tube.

    If you have had to go and undo a good Lexel job on a chimney, you'd see it's bullet proof..even the grinder can't get a bite, it plugs up the wheel and when hot is gooey, when cold it's rubber..either way it blinds the grit edge.

    No one mentioned the rolled plugs of CU that pins the counters in the joint..either I am daft or lazy, but one of my peeves was making and installing them with tongs on the roof..I finally just started leaving lead scraps in my bags and using that instead, it fits old slots much better without that last hammer tap , kinking the new flag.  Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

    "Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

12. 
    theslateman | Mar 09, 2008 07:03pm | #19

    Duane,

    They had the right area , but goop is - as you well know - no substitute for metal flashings properly soldered.

    A lot of zinc used to be used in our area for closed valley step flashings which you can see just above have been gone for some time.

    The cement added to the galvanized failure by not letting the trapped water out.

    Walter

13. 
    Sphere | Mar 09, 2008 07:33pm | #22

    Can I take a few points ofF the "Guilt Meter" if I use a clear sealant!!

     

    LOL

    Edit: for typing with roofers ahnds

    Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

    "Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

    Edited 3/9/2008 12:35 pm ET by Sphere

2. 
   EddJW | Mar 09, 2008 03:46am | #7

   Hey guys, thanks for confirming what I thought.  When he said he didn't cut the mortar joints he never said that he would inset the copper into the existing kerf.  And when he mentioned just "back caulking" the copper it just sounded like a gooey mess.   Thanks again.  -Ed

1. 
   Sphere | Mar 09, 2008 10:16am | #8

   It's not uncommon to pop-rivet the counters as well, to the previous one in the row.

   Copper rivets for copper flashings, in wind prone areas.

   I've done quite bit that way, if the "flag" or counters won't lay nice and true.

   Whoever crafts the counters also should include a "kick' or slight bend on the exposed edges, this makes for a tighter seal, and cleaner look.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   "Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

3. 
   RedfordHenry | Mar 09, 2008 01:05am | #3

   Gluing flashing to bricks is akin to smearing it with tar.  I'd stick with the guy who seems to know how to do it properly.

4. 
   JTC1 | Mar 09, 2008 01:18am | #4

   Not really a roofer, but I get calls to fix interiors after some roofer cut a few corners.

   I will just say that properly cut in flashing at the chimney does not generate much business.  However, silicone (or any other goo formulation) anchored flashing is a money maker.

   Draw your own conclusions and choose your path.

   Jim

   Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.