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Installing chimney liner…OLD chimney

jmo2 | Posted in Construction Techniques on May 14, 2004 08:43am

We’ve been told that this is something we could do ourselves…I just am wondering how realistic that is.  Here’s the scoop:

1914 Chimney vents both boiler and non-working fireplace (that was working at one time as a gas fireplace.)  They replaced the old coal boiler with gas, didn’t install liner.  (bad idea…that.)

Unfortunate muddle by previous owner led to BAD tuckpointing job above the roofline outside.  The rest of the chimney is hidden in a wall and a boarded up portion.  This was going to be dealt with FAR down the road because of money and staging.

Well, we took out a knee wall on the second floor last weekend and…TA DAH!  The part of the chimney you can see from inside the second floor?  A mess.  Crumbling.mortar.holes.  Bad.

1)  Emergency tuckpointing is needed at very least before we close up that wall. 

2)  Liner now? 

3)  Or can we defer liner to later when portion of chimney above roofline is redone.  (Man, I would love to grind out that junk they used…they don’t make those brick sizes anymore.  What a mess.) 

4) Does the whole chimney from basement to ceiling need a shakedown immediately to avoid expensive “re do” of work?

And!

5) is this something a mere mortal can attempt? 

Any and all chimney stories are much, much appreciated.  I already have a historic old recipe for lime mortar…don’t know if it would match for sure.

These days I’m yearning for something simple, like, um, installing a built-in.

Thanks all.

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  1. Treetalk | May 14, 2004 02:30pm | #1

    If you are already venting stuff up this chimney i dont think you can wait!How do you know these exhausts arent coming out somewheres other than the top.The rest of the chimney you dont see is probably asa bad as the parts you exposed , altho alot of chimneys rot from the top down once you start losing mortar joints up top.

    Ive just been working on this problem at my shop house this week.Its a brick chimney(2 brick x2 brick),no liner,fairly good shape in the house but needed pointing from roof up.It also had about 6 holes knocked in it over its history.I want to put a wood stove in down in basement .I wanted the extra insurance of a liner(so may ur insurance co.) so i had to decide..metal or masonary.Search for metal flue liners and ull see several varietys...mi=ostly staineless steel.To do mine 30' it was going to be about $600-750., inc. pipe,supports,cap.  Amore expensive but forever route is to have a co. come in ,put the inflateable form in the flue and pump grout around it.Your probably talking $2000.

    In my house thatd be putting a golden saddle on a mule for right now so I figured id put in 8x8 terracotta liners from the top.Took a while but i made a rig that would hold the tile as i lowered it down from the top, then allow me to release it.To align them all the way down there i hot glued litle wedges on the outside of the liners to guide the next liner to its mate.Hmm.. a crazy lil plan, frought with some disaster(dropping a tile) and some grunt work  but hey jsut do it15 times and for $250 id have a lined safe chimney.

    Well thats the way it was supposed to work!!I had about 3/4" play on either side of the fluetile inside the chimney.Went to drop the first tile in and about half way down the tile stopped.That bastard mason from 1923 squeezed the flue in around some framing and there was no room to get thru.Back to drawing board.Short story..went down in basement and busted a lil bigger hole and dropped in tiles i cut down to 12"in length.Did this for 7' and put in thimble.,cleanout.Where tile stops I have a 1/4 steel plate that caps tile and has thimble to recieve metal flue pipe.Ill drop metal flue in from top and can align thru acess hole.

    Either way your going to have to fix the top.,before u do anything.If its really bad its easier to take it down and relay than surface fix it by repointing.This way u can fix flashing and everything.Plus the brick are already up there and if ure short a few drop a course or so or cap with a contrasting color.

    1. rez | May 14, 2004 04:53pm | #3

      Treetalk-

      The method you chose to reline your chimney, was that the 'board offset on a rope inside the tile as you lower it hoping to hit the preceding tile squarely' method.

      I saw that process in a book 'Renovating Old Houses' by George Nash and always wondered if it was a doable project.

      Yep, am tempted to give it a shot.

      No mention of hotgluing wedges tho'. Could you elaborate a bit on that please.

      Thanks. 

      1. Treetalk | May 15, 2004 02:06am | #4

        The rig i came up with to lower the tile was just two 3' long  sticks hinged with a bolt at the top and each with a lil foot of angle iron on the bottom.Spread them out so steel hook under edge of tile and keep tension on it.Was hard to keep tile perfectly balanced with 2 feet but hard to make something with 4 pull evenly, so wedge some foam in to keep it even.To unhook it I dropped a piece of pipe down the rope which squeezed the legs closed.

        Ther lil pcs. of wood were just 4" long with angle cut on last 2".Flat section glued to side of tile with angle facing in .This way tile has some lee way going on but gets nudged the closer it gets to it mate.

        Never saw the Nash technique. but someone today told me another method where they made a pc of wood get wedged in tile as pull way applied.Then dropped a 2x4 down with rope to knock it out?

    2. rez | May 18, 2004 03:48pm | #5

      So I take it you only did the bottom 7' in tile, capped the tile with a metal plate, punted  and then went metal liner up the rest of the way?

      1. Treetalk | May 19, 2004 02:30am | #6

        Aw...the best laid plans of mice and men.. .Yep thats the end result.I think itll be a pretty good and safe set up.The transition between the thimble and the up pipe I think is critical and has to support the weight of the flue.With the 1/4 " steelplate holding the pipe up i know it wont rot out like some ive seen and wont burn out.

        Ill just use regular 5' joints of heavy flue pipe and lower them down.I feel confident with the pipe inside a brick chimney itll be safer than alot of rigs ive seen and easy to clean.

        1. rez | May 19, 2004 06:20am | #7

          I'm debating the metal pipe. Reason is I feel the tile would be more durable to burn outs.

          I've watched my pop for years now cleaning his chimney.

          About 3 times a heating season what he does is put a bunch of paper and cardboard in the stove with the damper open and intentionally starts the 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick rough creosote on the walls of the chimney on fire.

           It burns it to a fine ash like paper. Then it cleans real easy with a few swipes up and down from the wire brush.

          It seems metal pipe unless it were thick wouldn't have the durability to endure this too much as the tile will.

          I have the same two brick set-up as you mentioned earlier and it looks to be a tight fit trying the 8x8inch flue tile. Guess the first tile down will say it all.

          What type of mortar were you planning on using for the seams?

  2. andybuildz | May 14, 2004 02:45pm | #2

    I recently did this.

    Cleaned out a mess of a chim and installed stainless steel pipe.

    Its a pretty simple process.

    I don't think you should wait

    BE well

             andy

    My life is my passion!

    http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

  3. User avater
    JeffBuck | May 19, 2004 06:27am | #8

    5) is this something a mere mortal can attempt?

    Sure ... but why chance burning your own house down to save a few bucks?

    every time this Q comes up on a remodel ... I always poke my head up in the firebox and look up with a flash light  ... like I have any clue what the hell I'm looking for/at?

    Then ... I call my fireplace guy.

    sometimes he does this ... sometimes he does that ....

    other times .....

    all the time ... something different.

    To me ... they all look pretty much the same.

    On the last one I poked my head up .... my HVAC guy saw something er other both me and the chimney guy overlooked ... and "they" came up with yet another set of solutions ....

    Do ya really know what to look for?

    I don't ..... and I'm most positive I could read 10 books on the subject and miss 1/2 of what my FP guy would notice ....

    Why chance it.

    Fire in a house is a bad idea in general ... let's try to make it as safe as possible from the start ....

    Jeff

    Buck Construction, llc   Pittsburgh,PA

         Artistry in Carpentry                

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