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Discussion Forum

installing Crown molding for the DIY

Wanda200 | Posted in General Discussion on October 20, 2010 04:46am

Hi,

To cope or not to cope!  Most people I’ve talked to just miter the inside corners and glue them together. If the corners are not exactly 90 degrees and few are they just make the adjustments on the miter saw.. moving a few degrees right or left of the 45 degree marking until they get the 2 pieces to fit tightly.

 

I on the other hand think that coping is the better way to go. Probably a bit more time consuming. It allows for wood movement. Is it necessary too glue a coped joint? I never have. 

I have a ? regarding nailing crown molding. If I’m installing 3 1/4-3 5/8″ crown molding using 2 1/2″ nails is it ok to just nail it into the top plate every 16″? (using a nailing gun , aim for the middle of the molding and fire right into the top plate. Is that acceptable? (as long as the nail is long enough to go through the “spring angle” and penetrate far enough into the top plate). The article I was reading said there was no need to locate joists or studs. You’d only need to locate the studs if you were splicing the crown molding.

 

what’s the best way to install regular crown molding?

 

wanda

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  1. calvin | Oct 20, 2010 05:41pm | #1

    Wanda.

    Painted crown is more forgiving as you can touch up small gaps etc with caulk.  However, minimally fastened painted crown will move around even more than the almost usual seasonal separation of the crown to ceiling intersecton.

    Therefore I usuall fasten to the wall (stud or plate) and to the joists.  In the case running parallel to the joist direction, I try to catch the usually installed drywall backer in the ceiling (lath catcher).  In the even there's minimal wood there or the projection of the crown prevents hitting it, I install blocks in the corner of the wall ceiling.

    While some will rip a 2x4 at the spring angle and size of the area behind the crown (minus some air space) to do it, I rip some scrap down, cut it into 3-4" pcs.  I take these 'backer blocks" and apply some tube adhesive to the block-press in the corner ever 16" or so and then pin it, holding it till the glue dries.

    Now I have a continuous series of nailers to fasten the crown-no need to find studs or lath catcher.

    Smaller crowns or when confident that the frame will present enough to nail to, I'll go the simpler route.

    I cope on all but the most complicated profiles.  These I will mitre and glue.  MDF I might mitre and glue also depending if coping tears up the profile.

    I have gotten into the habit of using PL Premium applied to the back of the cope so that it makes contact with the pc I'm fitting to.  A pin might help hold that joint till the glues sets.  I also cut back (scribe to fit)  areas near corners so I'm not forcing the fit in the corner-as it will surely telegraph separtion later-the low spot in the ceiling pushing against the crown.

    Nothing I hate seeing on a job I've done more than cracks and gaps.  They don't pay for that.

    1. JMadson | Oct 25, 2010 09:27am | #6

      crown backer

      While some will rip a 2x4 at the spring angle and size of the area behind the crown (minus some air space) to do it

      I like this approach. Leave at least an 1/8" to a 1/4" gap between the backer and the crown. This way, you can shoot a nail right in the middle and it should pull both the top edge and bottom edge to the wall. Obviously, you don't want to do this too much (too many big holes to fill) but it's nice to have that extra grabbing potential behind the crown.

       I also like to cope, it makes working alone a lot easier. If you have a piece thats 12' long and has two inside corners at the end, you really only have to worry about one of the ends, not both. Cut your cope first and then cut the other end square (actually a little less than 90 degrees is better, leaves room for a bad drywall job in the corner). Then the next cope that you cut just covers up that squared off corner.

      1. calvin | Oct 25, 2010 04:48pm | #7

        Another thing I do.......

        is to clip the upper corner of that butt cut end of the crown (so it still gets covered).  This gives me a finger or hook access in case I need to pull the top of the crown forward fo adjust b/4 nailing or to adjust it for a good fit into the cope.  Mud buildup in a corner likes to play havoc sometimes.

        1. JackFlack | Aug 24, 2014 04:27am | #10

          Studs or Backer Board?

          Will be installing MDF for ceiling crown soon, six and a quarter inch wide.. is it better to add backer board behind first or would nailing to ceiling joist and wall studs be sufficient?

          And mite ring versus coping inside corners.. which would be best at that size?

          Appreicate any insights you can share for first time crown molding person, thank you - Jack

          1. calvin | Aug 24, 2014 06:05am | #11

            Jack

            With something that wide I'd glue and nail backer blocks @16" o.c.

            you could do the backer continuous.

            Make the backer slightly less than the back of the crown placement so it doesn't interfere with its placement (esp. At the corners )

            cope.

            Temporary prop or get help on the other end.

            cut slightly long, spring into place.

  2. Wanda200 | Oct 21, 2010 09:04pm | #2

    Hi Calvin,

    Seasonal separation of crown to ceiling intersection.. is that usually attributed to truss lift? I had that problem in my bedroom so I just used acrylic/latex caulk to fill the gaps. So far so good.

    I've heard of using backing but I have never heard the term lath catcher before. I just googled that and your name popped up.  

    I take it there are only 2 walls in a room that require no backing.. the other 2 walls which  run parallel to the joists require backing providing there is no drywall backer.

    So if I want to prevent the crown from moving around I better use more fasteners.. 2 every 16" oc I'm using regular fingerjointed pine crown molding so I'll be able to cope. That's something I can do reasonably well.

    Suppose I decide to  install MDF crown molding instead of the fingerjointed crown (just happens mdf crown is on sale this weekend at Rona).. I guess my old fashion way of installing the crown using a hammer and a box of 2" finishing nails is out of the ? right... I'd most likely have to rent a power nailer.

    While we're on the subject of moldings.. is it ok to use 1 fastener for Cove molding. Whoever installed the molding in the kitchen and bedrooms used just 1 fastener every 16" oc 

    Wanda

    1. calvin | Oct 21, 2010 09:28pm | #3

      Wanda

      Lath catcher-a term here in NW Oh. is used to describe the wood fastened to the top of the wall running parallel to the ceiling joists.  Usuall a 1x6 or 2x6 so it hangs over both sides of the top plate-giving you a nailer for the ceiling drywall.  Beats me why my name popped up-other than I mentioned it in this and other posts.  I certainly didn't coin the phrase.

      Your caulk if it doesn't dry out and there's not much movement is fine.  If I have a larger gap or am concerned about movement I might use a butyl or urethane caulk.  Tougher to tool but takes movement without giving up the bond a whole lot better.  I'm sure you'll be fine (can always run another bead later (if the trim/ceiling remains white).

      I fasten to the wall and ceiling framing-or blocks one nail each up/down.  This has worked well for me.  I try to keep a straight line of the crown on the wall and let the ceiling vary if necessary-you'll pick up a wavy wall line way b/4 you pick it up on the ceiling.

      Yes, usually no need for a backer other than on the parallel walls.  However, I've run it around a room on occasion.  I let the conditions of the room and the trim dictate how far I'll go.  3-1/4 38 deg crown can usually catch the lath catcher no problem.  45 deg or larger size, not so much.

      If hand nailing I'd predrill probably...........maybe not.  Putting crown up by myself and always using a gun, I try to take the easy way out with the least damage control.  On the subject of one person install-MDF is heavy and unruly, you might be advised to stick to the wood.

      Cove?  One nail in the small stuff, probably.  As it increases in size I might go to the wall and to the ceiling with my brad nailer (not a pinner).

      Best of luck.

      so, do you have all your remodeling with others nightmares over and done with?  Hope so, you took some hits on some of your projects.

    2. calvin | Oct 21, 2010 09:30pm | #4

      One more thing.

      The seasonal gappage.  I see it happen about one month into the full heating season-the house dries down to below 30% humidity.  About the time the dining room chairs start to creak of wiggle.

      I feel the best time to caulk and paint interiors is during this time period.  Expansioin doesn't show up as easy as shrinkage.

  3. andybuildz | Oct 22, 2010 12:53am | #5

    I just finished installing a cpl a hundred feet of 3 1/2" FJ primed crown. Personally I find coping the "only" way to go. With pine it's pretty quick. Hardwoods are another thing. A bit more time consuming but with the help of a grinder or Collins tools things get sped up a bit.

    I love using Collins spring clamps on most of my miters. It just ensures me of a nice tight fit. After the glue dries and the clamps are removed I sand/file the edges where necessary..if necessary...fill the nail holes and then paint.

    Using crown stops on my DW chopper is also a nice time saver although it'd be nice if they made them babies with some kinda quick releases.

    I also like to shoot a line with my laser level for all the bottoms of my crown to line up against especially since there were several posts I was crowning around and some that I was skipping over from room section to room section.

    When there were sections of ceiling where there wasn't any wood to shoot my nails into that was going to become an issue I found that shooting the longest finish nails I had up on an angle I'd usually catch the top plate.

    Running a bead of caulk around the entire top and bottom of the crown really tightens the job up and makes for a perfect look.

    I just looovvveeeee doing crown : ))

    File format File format
  4. Wanda200 | Oct 26, 2010 02:56pm | #8

    crown molding

    Hi guys

    Thanks for all the tips. I think I'm ready now to install crown in my laundry room and tv room. I'll try the laundry room first since that's the smallest room.

    What nailing gun would you recommend? Stanley Bostictch/ Dewalt? Does Dewalt have a battery operated nailing gun. Kind of a nusiance having to turn on a compressor just to nail up a bit of crown. Something portable would be a better option.

    Calvin thanks for asking.. YES thank god the renovations are over! Everything turned out for the best. We managed to find a really good trim guy. A man that specializes in fixing up other workman's "f.ups!  He did a terrific job.

    wanda

    1. DonCanDo | Oct 26, 2010 04:55pm | #9

      Dewalt makes a very good cordless finish nailer.  So does Paslode.  Paslode uses a fuel cell and the Dewalt is battery only.  That means the Paslode costs more to operate, but it is lighter.  That's the one I have.

      If I were going to use it on my own house, I would probably just stick with pneumatic nailers because they're much cheaper and moving a compressor around in my own house wouldn't be much a a problem.  The Paslode (like the Dewalt) offers much greater mobility when working at a customer's home.

      If you do decide to go pneumatic, FHB did a review of several brands a while ago.  As I recall, none of them were reviewed as a bad choice.

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