installing folding attic stairs solo?
Hazlett
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
Monday—— I have to install a folding attic stairway. I will be removing an old, existing unit—-and plugging a new unit into it’s place.
directions look pretty straight forward
however they claim 2 people will be needed.
any of you ever install one solo?—-care to share any tips?
Remember—-finished ceilings in place—unit is sized properly—-it’s basically a R & R job.
thanks—–Stephen
Replies
I have done three replacements. First one, I tried solo. After about 15 minutes stuck in the attic, stinking hot, couldn't go up or down, called DW on the cell phone for assistance. Second two I had help. Last one was a metal unit from HD ... went in pretty well.
The second person doesn't have to do much, but there are times when "hand me that bracket" is all you need. Or "pull that lever while I hold these two brackets that are three feet apart" .
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Where does one buy folding attic stairs? in Canada....
I assume that's a serious question, since it's your first post. Welcome to breaktime.
Try one of the big home improvement stores. like Home Depot or Lowes or menards or whatever you have. They usually stock two different sizes. or try a real lumberyard. They may not stock it, but they can easily order the size you need, and probably different styles.
Usually the stairs are made in two heights, to match the ceiling height. I think one is for 8-9 ft ceiling, and the other is for 10 ft. they are adjustable. measure your ceiling before you go to the store ... you don't need to be exact, within an inch is good enough. And thenm they are made to fit between different rfater spacing. 16 or 24 inch spacing is the norm. Again, poike your head in the attic and measure the gap between the rafters ... it will either be about 14-1/2 inches or about 22-1/2 inches.
Spend a few bucks to get a good unit. After all, it's gonna be you on the skinny ladder trying to balance a box heirloom Christmas decorations. or an oversize overweight suitcase.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I'm pretty sure I remember an article in FHB or JLC a few years ago about this, Stephen. Have you dug through the yearly indexes?
I've done many of them, and prefer to do them solo. Sometimes a helper is useful on the heavier models, but a bad helper is worse than useless. The keys are stoutly attaching cleats to the ceiling exactly as the directions in the box say, and working from below. The hard part is wrestling the stair onto the cleats. A regular 8 - 9 stair is no big deal, but the 10 ft. models and the heavy duty ones are tougher. Once the stair is resting on the cleats, you can open it, move a step ladder in close, and sock some cabinet screws into the hinge jamb. From that point on, it's secure and all you have to do is shim and adjust.
I like to preassemble the casing on a bench or the floor, gluing and pinning the miters. That's easier than wrestling with getting tight miters overhead.
Don't forget to foam around the jamb like you would an exterior door or a window. And please, use an airtight foam box above the stair. These things are huge air leakers.
Andy
Andy Engel
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
None of this matters in geological time.
thank you Andy,
that was exactly the advice I was hoping for---- I think you just saved me a bit of a hassle.
I was assuming I was gonna have to do it from above.
One question------- there is casing in place on the existing unit. I dont think the casing is nailed into the jamb of the existing unit----and if closer inspection reveals that it is---- I believe I can cut the nails.
the casing appears as if it is overlapping the Jamb approx. 1/2"
Here is the question-------any chance that the addition of a few additional nails in the casing will allow the existing casing to take the place of the cleats---long enough to support the unit untill I shoot a few screws in the hinge jamb?????
Stephen
I'd tear the casing down, for two reasons. First, leaving it there will make manouvering the stair into the opening harder than it should be. This being the most difficult bit of work, I'd tend to leverage things more in my favor. Second, while the casing might carry the weight of the stairs, I'd be surprised if it survived opening them to get access to screw in the head jamb. Unless it's a very stout casing, say, 1 x 4 fastened with 8d or better nails, I wouldn't take the chance.
On the other hand, it might work if you had a helper in the attic to fasten the head jamb before opening the stairs.Andy Engel
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
None of this matters in geological time.
I like Andy's method much better than the one I used, but if you want another way, try this:
I worked from the attic, attached a 2x4 between two roof rafters above the opening. Then I tied a rope to the unit and hauled it up, tying it off once it was generally in place. Then screwed it off, pushed down the stairs and went down.
Much less elegant and efficient than Andy's, but, well, that's just par for the course for me! Good luck!
Tim Sams
I've installed them mostly solo ... both from underneath and above.
I like working from above ...
but ... make sure U measure exactly ... for the ledgers that are gonna have to catch the bottom of the jamb ... make that a hair too big ... and there's a good chance at knocking the thing crooked and off those cleats .. and down onto the floor below.
make'em too tight ... and you've just shut yourself in the attic!
my easiest install ... customer wwanted them added to one side of a big old attic in a big old house ... and on the other side ... was a set of perfectly fine stairs!
worked from above and below.
last one I did had some metal hanging straps ... sitting here I can't remember exactly how they worked ... just know it made life alot easier. Pretty sure I did that one from up in the attic.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I leave the unit in the box and open it when it is in the attic, slides up a lot easier without anything gettig caught.
I like doing it from above as well and rope it from the rafters till I can get some cleats scewed on. Make sure you have everything you need before setting the thing into place, and reach for the drill with the dead battery, like me.
The foam box is an excellent idea.
I must be missing something here folks----please clue me in.
the Unit only weighs about 70# ( it's not like it's a cast iron bathtub)----so I don't see any difficulty lifting it into the attic.----( leaving it in the box untill it's in the attic seems like a good idea)
so---I take it out of the box---lay it on the floor next to the EXISTING well framed opening
and while standing on the step ladder simply slide the unit horizontall over the opening and slowly lower it straight down untill it's resting on the cleats----or possibly the casing.
working from below I can easily center it in the opening
But---working from above--- I can shoot a screw into the hinge jamb Before I open it and Knock it off the cleat/casings
Stephen
You've gotten lots of good advice but I'll add one more. If at all possible do not get the Werner that uses the gas struts in lieu of springs. I put one in a year ago and I'll never do it again. First one was so bad Werner replaced it, second one was so out of alignment I had to do some refab work on it and after sending Werner photos they agreed to pay my labor back to the HO. A true horror...
PaulB
OK, the rope comes in handy when you are in an unfinished attic doing a toe dance on the cieling joists and trying not putting a foot through the cieling. When you are installing from above you need a rope to flip the last section of leg out and to the floor before you can decend. If the bottom section of ladder does not land the floor properly (too long-too short) you can use the rope to decend and help keep your weight off the ladder.
The more I think about it, I was pretty young and spry the first 2 or 3 units and the last unit I installed was a 10 footer 5 years ago. So thats 3 maybe 4 units over 20 years.
I will probably install my next unit from the floor, and yell at the guy in the attic.
If you are uncomfortable, get a buddy. Good luck.
I did two solo in a house. My procedure, for what it's worth ...
1) Set up some reasonable staging that will allow you to lift the unit up into the attic first, laying it on the floor.
2) Fasten four scab pieces diagonally across each bottom corner of the opening, up into the drywall. They should be placed so they'll just catch the jamb of the unit, but allow the stairs to drop.
3) Get you and your tools up into the attic. Have your shims and screws with you. Drop the unit into the opening, resting on your four scabs. Now square it up with shims just like you would a window, and screw thru the jams into the framing. Since your scabs were placed to just catch the jamb, you can push the stairs down to have working room to finish your fastening job.
Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...
Well folks---here is how the stairs worked out--------
Basically it was a piece of cake.
Removed the old broken stairs-----simple---but it took about as much time as installing the new ones.
Removed ONE piece of the existing casing at the hinge side.
Lifted the new set of stairs up into the attic still in the box.
Positioned the step ladder----you can put it almost in the middle of the opening and still swing the hatch past the step ladder---- absolutely NO problems getting in and out of the attic.
Put one cleat in the place of the ONE piece of casing I removed( probably did NOT need to do even this.
took the stairs out of the box and lowered it into the opening onto the existing casing and one cleat.( working from the attic)
shot one screw into the hinge jamb
Carefully pushed the hatch and stairs down----and then climbed down the step ladder.
Took the ONE screw out of the hinge jamb and it was simple to shim/adjust/position the unit right where I wanted it .
Fasten it in place---bingo----- works fine.
Take block plane and tune up one edge that was ever so slightly kissing one of the casings.
I would do one of these again in a nano second.
Also installed a little trim along another set of stairs and installed a handrail.
Home by lunchtime.
thanks again for all your help,
Stephen
You got lucky. I'll call you next time I have to install a set.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Good on you, Stephen.Andy Engel
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
None of this matters in geological time.
I see you've already got the stairs in, but I'll throw my $.02 anyway.
I do the cleats thing, but, especially on the heavy duty units, I strip off several sections of the stair strings to lighten them. I usually do it on the regular ones, too. Its a matter of removing a few bolts, which makes maneuvering everything overhead much easier.