Hello. I’m going to install some new yellow pine stair treads for a friend. The home owner wants them to have a polyurethane finish. The back boards (risers?) will be painted. Should I finish the treads before I install them? Should I use an adhesive, such as liquid nails, in addition to nailing them? The treads are about 12″ deep and 1″ thick fairly hard yellow pine. Should I pre-drill the nail holes? Thanks in advance.
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Replies
Prime the risers with paint, prime the back also it may prevent cupping. Install the treads unfinished, then fill nail holes and finish. Any poly that gets on risers, wipe off while wet, just to avoid drips.Then risers can get finish coat of paint. If you get a smear or drip on riser it will wipe off clean with the correct solvent, when wet. Dried paint can be scraped off it need be.
Use subfloor adhesive or liquid nails on stringer. Pre drill and nail with 16d galvanized casing nails. Galvanized nails hold better than smooth nails.
Last, I don't see a problem with finishing treads first, you'll probably need another coat or two after installation anyhow.Another way of finishing yellow pine treads is with orange shellac. Each succeding coat darkens the pine slightly, usually four coats will do it. Shellac holds up very well, contrary to what some people think. It was used on floors for two hundred years or more.Use dewaxed shellac if you want to poly over it, not neccesary though.
I do stairs regularly and have switched to trim head screws for attaching treads. They leave a larger hole than finish nails. I prefer to install unfinished so that I can use an appropriate filler and sand. Soft color putties are not suitable in my opinion. I do not recommend using adhesive. Gluing face grain to end grain has questionable long term merrit. If the treads go through seasonal changes the glue can prevent movement and cause a crack in the tread. I've recently learned that lesson the hard way, again!
I'm using Timberstrand to cut my stringers and still gluing the treads down. I seal coat the treads with at least one coat on both sides before installing them. then finish coat after all the carpentry is done.
I use finish nails but finish head screws sound good. Never have needed to predrill but it would be cheap insurance.
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Are you able to get that TJI product they make in LSL (laminated strand lumber) specifically in stairstringer size? Like maybe about 1-1/2 x 11-1/2?
Wish I could get it. I have seen the TJI data sheet, and requested it, but none of the yards around here can get it.
Cuttin' 'em out of sawn lumber is something I hate to do. First, you need three good straight sticks without knots in bad places. Then you get to saw them out and see how they crown when the notches relieve board stresses. Next, you swing one around and bump it and a treadblock splits off. Finally, you're nailing or screwing treads about 50 degrees off endgrain, great for fastener holding.
For winder runs or stairs requiring shorter carriages, if I've got time, I'll mop yellow glue on rips of AC ply, and make good stringer stock. Used to do this using a boatload of clamps, but then I decided to just screw them up with 1-1/4 drywall screws, and back out the screws later that are in the way of sawcuts.
Standard stock in for several years now.
1-1/4" x 11-1/2" x 16'
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Timberstrand sounds like a great idea. I refuse to use cut out 2x12 due to strenth and the tendancy to move. I've been cutting triangular blocks and screwing them to 2x8 but there can be head room issues on tight stairwells. The glue is still an issue with solid wood. Below are pictures of a recent pair of staircases that I was called back on. I made the mistake of using polyurethane glue to attatch platforms and winders to the Advantech sub-floor with disasterous results. The straight run stairs are only temps for construction.
Well, I finally finished downloading via this old dialup.
nice job but not showing what the problem is. What happened due to the PL?
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Sorry about the download, I'm having peripheral trouble and cannot get everything small. I feel the glue prevented the stock from moving thereby causing it to crack in the weakest spot. The landing opened on a joint, I put it in as two pieces and was not able to get clamps on, no clamp no bond. The biscuits did not hold either. Titebond II. The winders split where they wanted to. I also had problems with a few treads cracking and mitered returns opening. This is not unique to me. I saw a pile of manufactured return treads at the lumber yard that had also opened. I know that the stock was very dry when I started milling and assembly. Once materials were on the jobsite the moisture levels obviously went up. Relative humidity does it's thing. It took me more than a day for this one! In the past I used construction adhesive and nails. The adhesive lets go a little so shrinkage does not break a board open. The gorilla glue is much stronger and the Advantech does not move. Standing all winter un-finished in a wood heated house did not help either. However I think we all know, or will know, that gluing solid wood to a substrate that does not move is to be avoided. For us stair builders its all about being solid with no squeaks but I'm going to be more careful with glue and try to allow some normal movement.
I see what you say. The PL Premium does set up hard. May use the Bostic wood flooring glue? next time. I have taken some of it up and found it to be moderately pliable after a few years. It sure stinks though.
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Mike you are right!
Shellac is tougher than most people think. It also repairs very easy. Just a little rubbing alcohol is all ya need sometimes.
Edited 4/4/2004 4:41 pm ET by Larry's cabnuts
Installing Pine Stair Treads
I am going to install clear yellow pine stair treads on an open wrought iron staircase w/ no (toe board). The treads will be bolted down to the angle iron welded on both ends of the wrought iron riser. The treads will be no wider than 32.5 inches. DO you think this is sufficient and what thickness of board should I go with. What should I finish the board off with. I was thinking of using a type of shallac as I feel a poly coat would be too slick ? Thanks Chris
Some thoughts:
So those are just open treads with no risers and the ends are bolted to steel clip angles welded onto the steel stringers? I do not know if there are ready made stair treads for that type of application. But I would want to use at least 1.5" thick material. It would be nice to use a quarter-sawn material to minimize expansion and conraction across the width.
I would not use shellac because I would want the most durable finish possible. I have gotten very good performance out of a polyurethane called Fabulon. They have a heavy duty polyruethane and another one that is lacquer based. The lacquer based product can be recoated without sanding, but it has more volitile solvents that are explosive.
Since those treads will not be attached to any other wood components, I would pre-finish them with Fabulon on all sides including the ends. Let it soak as much into the ends as possible. I would apply four coats. Drill the bolt holes before finishing. I would use the high gloss varety of polyurethane because it is the most durable. It will be very shiny, but I don't get any sense of it being too slippery.