I am a cabinetmaker, and have done just enough renovation work to be dangerous.
A friend has asked me to help him out by installing 10 pre-hung doors, which I have never done before. I do know that you center the unit in the rough opening, and start with the hinge side, but that’s about all.
I imagine some of you have installed thousands of these units, and I would be grateful for any tips, techniques, and general advice you might be willing to pass along to a door hanging novice.
For instance, I went over there and did some measuring today, and about half the units will have to be cut down to fit the rough opening — both jambs and the door itself. What’s the best way to make these cuts?
Also, I will have to remove the plastic clip holding the door in place (to remove the door to cut it down). Once the door is back on the hinges, is there a slick way of holding it in the frame while I go ahead with the installation?
Thanks.
Replies
Far better to make the ROs the right size to start with. Jamb legs often need to be cut off because they are left long since there are different floor finish thicknesses. The RO should be 6'10-1/2" H.
I prefer to lay the unit down with door/hinge side facing up, and add the casing to that side first. Then I lift the whole thing into place, plumb the hinge side, and nail through the casing to pin it in place. Keeping the door hung while installing lets me easily be sure of the reveal and square.
once the unit is pinned in place, I open the door and shim from the back, nail the jamb through and then case out the other side.
There are a half dozen ways to do it and I'm sure you'll hear more.
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i agree with piffin in that it may be easier to adjust the rough opening than to cut the doors. if you just cut the header with a skill saw from both sides and leave yourself 1/4-3/8" clearance it won't matter if it is a clean cut, it gets covered by trim/casing. finish cuts with a sawzall. if you scribe the cutline on drywall you will find the drywall nails (or piffin screws) with the razor knife instead of the saw blade. you may still need to cut the bottoms of jambs to fit, leaving one side long if floor is out of level. these can be cut with a skillsaw, while door is still in, just prior to installing casing with the door on two sawhorses.
if the rough openings are wide enough you can fir and shim the hinge side first, frinstance if the R.O. is 3/4" strong you can rip a piece of 1/2" 5 ply and install it with shims perfectly plumb on the hinge side. then using piffins technique of nailing on casing on one side first before installing doors should go super fast.
If the hinge trim stud is dead plumb, (and it never is), I will pin the jamb without the door in it right to it, hang the door and shim the strike and head accordingly going by an even reveal. What I usually do is start by cutting the jamb bottoms if the floor isn't level, then I mark where the hinges fall (for heavier doors), I then staple shims to the hinge side onto the stud right where the hinges are or just above and below starting with the narrowest part of the RO and work my way up (or down) with the shims so they are dead plumb and then install the jamb. This is much easier than fumbling with shims and a door jamb and it actually goes quite fast. I like to use 15 guage nails to pin with and if it's a solid core I will countersink a screw through each hinge mortise into the trimmer. I like to remove the stop and reattach it after the door is hung and the hardware and strike is in place.
If you're cutting a luan door to size an easy way is to wrap blue painters tape around both sides where the cut is going to be, clamp on a straight edge saw guide and with a good sharp finisher blade on the saw and make the cut. Remove the tape slowly and chamfer the edges with a block plane. It's a very clean cut and there's no need for scoring.
re: "adjusting" the RO
I certainly agree the door hanger's life would be easier if the RO's were sized properly, squared and plumb. But adjusting them now is not going to be possible -- since everything has been rocked, taped and painted.
Remember the old thing about "ready, aim, fire"? Well my my friend is more the "ready, fire, aim" kind of guy.
But he's a good soul, and I owe him a lot of favors.
And that's why I just want to figure out how to cut the jambs/doors to size, and make do with a bad situation.
Fortunately the doors are light weight and will be painted. And as we all know, paint can be used to cover up a lot of sins.
If these are pre-hung hollow core doors, and you have to cut them down width wise, your buddy will be using up a whole bunch of those favors you owe him, and slowly, too<G>
Since the lock side of a pre-hung is bored (usually) you'll have to take everything off the hinge side. If you're taking off more than 1/2" you'll probably have to replace the stile. You're gonna have to at least remortise for the hinges anyway.
If you really can't adjust the ROs, see if your friend can return the pre-hungs and get slabs, flat jamb stock and stop. It would be a whole lot quicker and neater than retrofitting.
But if you must cut those suckers down, check out this thread:
http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/40ba0f63000e0ba727177f0000010572/Catalog/1029?read=19036
I know it starts out with solid cores, but Gary does mention hollow cores later...
Good luck, and tell us what you end up doing.
Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Edited 5/30/2004 1:39 pm ET by bucksnort billy
i still say that given your situation to cut the jambs and doors to size now is the "ready fire aim method"
you will probably not find any nails in the bottom of header, except for sheetrock nails or screws, and if you draw a line with a short level, then score that line with a razor knife you will find them and can easily remove them. then you run a skillsaw along the line cutting through sheetrock and header at same time, from both sides. finish cutting with reciprocal saw and you are done! except for the clean up which is a little sweeping and vaccuming. cardboard and dropcloths help make that go faster.
it doesnt have to be neat as it all gets covered with casing/trim. much easier than cutting the door, especially if you have to cut past where a hollow door is solid. you leave the door in the frame, never take it out even to trim bottoms of jambs for correct height of door off of finish floor saving several steps.
the same is true for the width of the rough openings, if you have to remove trim studs to make opening wider you can score drywall/sheetrock with a razor knife and it will come right off with trim stud very clean, and again much easier than rebuilding a pre-hung door to a narrower width. you dont have to put back any drywall or paint as it all gets covered by casing/trim
if you use the method suggested of first plumbing the hinge side with either shims @ hinge locations, or a firring strip of proper width plumbed with shims before you put the door in the opening they will install very fast.
yankin a jack is an option ,if ya want to also trim the plate for the light switch..seen it.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
You guys don't get nervous yanking jacks out and ripping down headers without knowing what's bearing on those walls? Or are we talking strictly partition walls?
What's life without a little risk?
Seriously, I would not have any problem substituting 5/4 jacks for 2x. I'd check out what the wall was carrying before I cut any header, but I've done that ,too. Its much easier to fix things at the framing stage than to refit an entire door if prehungs are involved.
i am sorry it took so long to get back to you diesel, and you are correct in that i should qualify those statements to mean 1.what is bearing on a header and how much material is being removed?, and when you remove a trimmer (or jack? stud) you need to replace with something that will support the header. firring strips add something, and a framing clip in the top corner also adds strength. simpson makes several different flavors, and i buy A-35's by the box.
in answering the posters question about installing the door i assumed he would have the common sense to address the structural framing, something that i as a framer take for granted, but that should maybe get pointed out to a cabinetmaker, even if it is stating the obvious, to make sure he doesn't create a bear trap!
Well, I did pick up on that (messing with the structural framing).
I did have to do a fair amount of "surgery" on some of the rough openings with the recip saw -- but nothing that weakened the structure.
Thanks again for your help.
A sawsall can still fix the openning faster than you can rebuild the doors.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
For instance, I went over there and did some measuring today, and about half the units will have to be cut down to fit the rough opening -- both jambs and the door itself. What's the best way to make these cuts?
Make sure you are cutting the 'ears' off of the of the lamb legs above the head jamb.
Cutting the door is a whole other story and depends on the door material and hollow v solid. If you are cutting hollow core luan or similiar you will need to score the face with a sharp knife and ever so carefully cut to that and finish with a sharp block plane or sandpaper. Solid doors you are basically making a large crosscut.
Chapters have been written about door hanging. If you are capable of building cabinetry I would say you have a better shot at figuring this out for yourself than most do. Hang in there you will get alot of directions soon.
It's one of those things that is not that hard to do, but really easy to screw up!
Good luck,
Eric
be certain to take the nails that hold the door shut for shipping out BEFORE ya nail it up..(don't laff guys, I've seen it done).
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Just had a "carpenter " put in an exterior door with the plastic strike retainer still in place.
The very basis is Plumb, I prefer to make the the hinge side the starting point. Level, make sure the floor is level and if not correct the jamb legs to level so the head is level= square jamb and head jamb. And last but not least the Plane, if the two walls are out of plane the allignment of the jams is bad. The bigger the door the bigger the problem. And all that soup considered before any thing gets nailed check these issues first so you can adjust. For example the sheetrock is fat at one place so you could adjust jamb first to cover and think of the least noticable location of defect to show.
yeah, I think one of the most common problems is cross legged opennings with one out of plimb one way and one, the other way. Gotta have a good framer to have a decnt door hanging.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>"yeah, I think one of the most common problems is cross legged opennings with one out of plimb one way and one, the other way. Gotta have a good framer to have a decnt door hanging".
Tell me about it, I could never figure how some framers could get the ROs crossed out by more than 1/2". After a few I began to realize mostly the tops of the frames were out. You find alot more of them with 10' ceilings than 8'. A sledge and a couple of screws (your choice) works wonders
I like to remove the door and set just the jamb. I'll shim, plumb and nail off the hinge side, then reinstall the door to get the head and strike margins. Shim the strike side and nail that off. Check the floor for level and cut the jamb legs as needed before installing it so the head is level after installation. I'll usually run a long screw behind the top hinge to catch the trim stud to help keep the door from ( eventually) sagging, especially with solid cores.
As Piffin said, you'll probably get several different ways to do this. Experiment with a few to see what works best for you.
Whew! Thought I was the only one who set the jambs first. Works well for me, especially with heavy solid core doors.
Yeah- I don't know if I'm lazy or smart, but I find it easier and faster to do it that way.
I thought that was the only way to do it...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
Cutting doors depends on how much has to come off. If it 3/8" or under I'd use a plane. If over 3/8", clamp a straight edge and use a skill saw. If its a hollow core door and you're taking off more than an inch be prepared to cut a filler piece to insert in the now hollow bottom. Seal or prime the bottom edge as it will be freshly exposed wood. If the doors are pre-bored there is another potential problem with taking off so much from the bottom of the door that it considerably lowers the handle height.
Good luck
MES
I slip the entire unit into the RO, plumb the hinge side, then shoot a couple of 2½" 18-ga air nails through that jamb to hold things in place. Then using a small pry bar I tweak the frame to and fro until it's where it needs to be--more or less centered, square, and as plumb as possible (considering the plumbness of the wall it's going into). Then I slide shims in from both sides just until they stay in place, and nail through them on both jambs. I don't nail the header. If it's a very heavy door, I will make sure there's solid shimming behind the hinges and use two long screws through each hinge into the framing. Add the hardware, casing and plinth blocks, and I'm done.
If I've got to cut the jamb(s) I remove the door, brace the frame with a 2x4, and use a circ to make the cut. If I've got to disassemble the frame and cut the header, I'll usually cut that on the chop then air-nail or staple it back together. The stop moulding can be trimmed back in place if necessary; use a back saw and go very carefully so as not to scratch the face it's nailed to.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
That's exactly how I do them. Good reveal all around, hitting the stop same time all around, door staying put at any point in the swing, what more can anyone ask for? Works for me!
If the core frame material needs to be moved up (bottom rail-hollow core) for a bigger cut off, I use a utility knife to seperate the skin from the core piece, and just re-use the core piece on assembly. Score for the door cut, ease the edge with a block plane.
Peace
Before this thread disappears completely into the archives, I wanted to thank you all for your generosity and good advice.
I printed out the entire thread, and read the comments just like you would study a text book.
I hung the 10th and final door today, and I would say, after the fourth, I began to hit my stride. But if it had not been for your help, I would probably still be limping along.
Thanks again .........................
how gracious of you to return the thanks.
Now stick around to help others out with your cabinet making skills.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Sounds like you volunteered to hang doors, not reframe the house... Tell your friend to correct the RO widths before you go out to install the doors. For non-load bearing partitions, he can rip out one or both jack studs and replace it/them with 5/4 x 4 S4S (1" thick), or similar to make the openings wider. As far as the height is concerned, you can cut down the prehung a bit, but if they are hollow core, you can probably not remove more than 1/2" of material off the bottom of the door itself without getting into a big PITA.
As far as hanging the doors themselves, if the rough jambs are reasonably plumb in the direction perpendicular to the wall, center the door in the opening, use the longest level you have to plumb the hinge side, first nail you shoot is in the head casing just above the to hinge, then fasten the hinge side, the do the rest by eye: go for uniform margins (gaps between he jambs and door. Do the head jamb next and then the strike side.
As far as shimming, there are 2 methods I find acceptable: 1) before installing the door in the opening, attach shims to the hinge side of the RO to make that perfectly plumb. Then put the door in the opening and push it up tight against the shims you just installed. Then shim the strike side. 2) center the door in the opening and nail as directed above. Pack shims in the gaps between the RO and the jamb.
Shim at least at each hinge and the strike, maybe more on the strike side. When installing the shims, be careful not to push the jamb out of alignment so as to mess up your margins.
Then install the other half of the split jamb. Nail the casing and then a few through T&G part of the the split jamb.
Personally I think a nail gun is essential, and I like 15 GA for hanging prehungs. The whole operation goes pretty fast once you get the hang of it assuming your ROs are sized OK and are fairly plumb.
To me, setting the doors correctly and at the right height with respect to the (to bo installed?) finish flooring makes the difference between a tradesmen and a hack.
Good luck,
On many hollow-core doors, you cannot cut more than 1/4" off any edge. The rails & stiles just aren't thick enough to allow 1/2" removal each.
If you need to cut more than 1/2" off a door's height, you'll have to cut out a stile entirely - typically the bottom stile, unless for some bizarre reason you've got to shorten the door more than 1.5", and then you cut out both top and bottom stiles. The stiles are about 1 inch thick.
To cut out a stile, wrap the cut line in painter's tape and use a 40-tooth circ saw blade (I like Freud's thin-kerf Diablo). Use a shoot board.
Once the stile is cut out (and the door appropriately shortened), run the stile thru a table saw to remove attached door facing, then re-glue back into door.
Use a power hand planar to narrow a door. If you need to narrow the door much more than 1/4", you're out of luck.
Regards,
Tim Ruttan