Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 08, 1999 06:52am | #1

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   My house was roofed using the top down method. Although I did not have step flashing, wall flashing was used in several places. The roofer did the entire house by himself in a week. The pitch is a 10/12 and 13/12 with dormers,etc. He had help toting up the shingles and popping chalk lines but the roof is almost perfectly straight.

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   Jim_Leboef | Oct 08, 1999 04:12pm | #2

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   I have a steep roof where we have to use support jacks all the way up the roof and it sure seems like that would be the best way to do it. I know people that have shingled from the top down but it was just a straight roof. I had some kind of a mental block trying to figure out if there was some reason it wouldn't work with step flashing. Thanks for the answer!

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   Guest_ | Oct 08, 1999 04:53pm | #3

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   Sure it can be done,but why would you want to?I ocassionaly back downhill to make a short tie in,but anything longer than a couple of feet is bestlayed out mathmatically.The step flashing can be slipped into place after the shingles are layed and then re-nailed,but that is awkwardd at best(also ,EXTREMLY difficult at times on old work with existing siding).Concerns about the roof jacks are not an issue if you use proper equipment. Roofing from the bottom up is the fastest ,straightest,simplest,SAFEST way.

   As a side note: Earlier this summer a guy down my block decidedd to roof his house himself.Each side of the house was about 5 1/2 sq. He started side one by tearing off the bottom half of the roof all the way across,felted it and then shingled it.After he tore off 2-3 shingles he picked them up carried them accross the roof andd threw them down in the driveway.( this was a one layer tear-off)Took him all day to do 1/2of one side. On day 2 he repeated the same method for the top half(only this time he was walking back and forth all day on his new shingles that were layed the day before)Total time invested in 1 side.... to entire days.

   One guy could have easily torn off the whole side,felted and roofed it in 5-6 hours and considered it an easy days work.(plus there would not hace been foot marks on all the shingles) Less than 5-hours if he wanted to push himself

   Bottoms up,Stephen

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   Guest_ | Oct 09, 1999 05:17am | #4

   *When I roof from the top down I snap all my lines then work about ten rows at at time down to the eave. So, it doesn't matter if there are any obstructions such as dormers, etc. This way I can work from the bottom up or top down. Works for me, especially on hot summer days.Dave

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   Jim_Leboef | Oct 09, 1999 05:57pm | #5

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   Stephen, I'm not sure I understand your point. The reason I want to do it from the top down is that I don't want to walk all over the new shingles and I want to pull the roof jacks as I go down. I don't see why this method would be any less safe, straight or whatever than doing it from the bottom up. You would only have to slip a flashing shingle in under every 6th course, otherwise you would put them in as you normally do. This is on a new house. You can easily chalkline for the spacing of the rows. Am I missing something?? Thanks

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   Guest_ | Oct 09, 1999 06:43pm | #6

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   Jim,Roofing from the top down for more than 2-3 courses is a HUGE time and money waster.Lets say you are backing down the roof and you want to install shingle C.You need to lift the preceeding shingle B to slip C into place. Now you need to lift the Tabs on shingle A ( the shingle above shingle B) to properly nail shingle B which you could nail properly before because you needed to lift it to insert shingle C.After all this lifting and inserting A is hopefully nailed properly,B is hopefully nailed prroperly, but C is still not nailed! only the secondary nails in the headlap from the nails in B!

   In order to install 1 shingle you had to lift and handle 3 different shingles and the one you wanted to install still is not completly installed!

   Compare that with how you would install shingles from the bottom up.......Place shingle C in its position. Nail 4 nails at proper location.

   That now ends your involvement with shingle C.

   If you were shingling down the roof you would have to handle C at least 2 more times. Multiply that times say 26-27 shingles per bundle,3 bundles per square,how many squares per roof?

   Now your real purpose is to avoid marring the shingles you have already installed,Right? First off, I use large adjustable roof Jacks with a wide base(probably about 6 inches wide). the Jack adjusts for any pitch, and gives you perfectly level footing. I use a 2x10 plank not a skinny 2x6.This gives me plenty of room to keep my feet off the shingles.I wear special roofing shoes from Thorogood or Durogaurd(something like that . My roofing supplier carries them).Laddder your jacks and planks up the roof. Mine are usually every 7 ft or so. If you cut that distance down to every 5 ft it will be easier to move from level to level and to move bundles around. Since I do this a lot every 7 ft is no problem for me and It lets me get to the ridge with only 2 levels.

   The most important trick is to take a couple of old foam rubber couch cushions up on the roof with you. If you need to step,walk,sit on the new shingles put the cushion down first. This prevents damaging the shingles and gives you a comfy place to work.You can wear shorts cause now your legs are protected by the cushions,not your pants.It's like roofing a whole house while sitting on your couch. The cushion does not slip and provides perfect traction.A lot of times on steep roof repairs I don't even set up jacks. I just run a hook ladder up to the ridge, climb up to the level of the repair, toss out a cushion and step over to the work area. 12/12 roofs are no problem this way and can be repaired safely. You can stand ,sit,Kneel on a 12/12 roof with no jack as long as you bring your cushions.

   If you have anybody else up on the roof ,keep spread out. this prevents concentrating traffic in one damage prone area. Work fast. If you install the shingles and move on while they are still comparitivly cool,how you gonna skuff 'em?

   Good Luck,stephen

   PS. Unless I am misunderstanding you, you need a step flashing EVERY shingle,not every 6th shingle. Also your VERTICAL chalk lines will be obscured by preceedding courses of shingles when backing down hill.

6. 
   Jim_Leboef | Oct 09, 1999 08:11pm | #7

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   Stephen, It's interesting to hear your point of view! My wife is out as we speak retrieving the cushions from the neighbors couch that he just threw out. It's relatively cool here now, so I'm going to try shingling the normal way and see if I can get by without damaging the shingles. As far as the step flashing ... I meant that you dropped down 6 courses at a time going down to a chalkline and then shingled back up to the upper course in the normal manner. That is why I said you needed to tuck the shingles and flashing under only every 6 courses. As for the vertical lines, I'm not using 3 tab shingles, so it's not a real issue. Thanks again for your comments.

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   Guest_ | Oct 10, 1999 12:04am | #8

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   I did't think that top-down was usually done as you describe, i.e., top-down for every shingle. The way I've heard others describe it, "strategically" you go top-down, but "tactically" you bottom-up. In other words, you start near the ridge, and do as many courses as you can do without moving (say, 8 or so), going bottom-up. The bottomost course doesn't get nailed (it's just held in place by the nails through the shingle above it. You then move down and do the next group of courses bottom-up, and only have to do the "A-B-C" thing you describe where this group intersects the previous group above it.

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   Guest_ | Oct 10, 1999 05:01am | #9

   *Jim,I forgot to mention.....make sure you remove the upholstery from the cushion,and if you fall off the roof and break your neck don't come running to me!I assummed your shingling top down was the same method we sometimes use for very short tie ins. If you are talking about dropping down 6 courses and then roofing up hill,every 6th course will still be at least 3 times the work.some other factors.... If you are not using 3-tabs,I assume you are using a laminated dimensional shingle. In cool weather the laminations will make it tough to lift shingle A in order to properly nail shingle B and incedentally high nail shingle C. The Laminated area will want to crack in cool weather(even early summer mornings) and the Un-laminated area will want to tear. Although the laminated shingle is prob. the better shingle A 3-tab would actually be easier to lift.Also the laminated brand I use has a sealdown strip on the back side of the shingle. In warm weather it will seal down to the felt almost instantly in this application, making it even tougher to lift B to insert C.I am pretty sure you can eventually finish a roof top down,but it seems un-necissarily involved and complicated.In order to prevent one minor problem(scuffing shingles)you have created any number of additional problems in its place.since you are roofing in cool weather,shingle scuffs are a remote possibility for all but the most clumsy and inattentive of workers. Proper use of scaffolding and the all important cushions will prevent all scuffing and allow blemish free work at a high rate of speed.Good Luck,Stephen

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   Guest_ | Oct 10, 1999 07:08am | #10

   *Thanks guys, I'll put that in my bag of tricks, could have used it this summer on a 10/12 with 3, 16/12 dormers and little or no eave shingles. Always hard to start straight and tie in above the dormers correctly on this kind of roof. Joe

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   Guest_ | Oct 10, 1999 11:44pm | #12

   *Joe, If you are interested,William E. Johnson wrote a book called the Roofers Handbook. Although a lot of the materials and methods he used are a little dated today, He does give very clear instructions on how to make that tie in you describe ,perfectly.We use the method all the time ,along with a couple of variations and it works very well. He even tells you how to fix it if you do the layout wrong.Also a lot of pointers you won't find on any shingle wrapper(which seem to assume we only work on perfectly square,simple Gable roofs)good Luck,Stephen

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   Jim_Leboef | Oct 10, 1999 11:44pm | #11

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   Can anyone tell me if you can install shingles from the top down when you have step flashing used along an adjoining wall? Any advice would be appreciated.