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Installing Slider in Garage Door Opening

bayviewrr | Posted in Construction Techniques on April 21, 2005 01:52am

I am doing a job where the garage is being converted into a bedroom/sitting area.   I am installing an Andersen Permashield 6-0 Slider in the existing garage door opening (rough 8/0, 6/10) .  The garage walls are block.  The rough height is now just large enough to accomodate the door.  I do not want to break into the overhead block to enlarge the rough height opening. 

My question is, is there a problem in installing the slider right down on the concrete floor?  My original thought was to put in an ACQ sill plate and install the slider on top of that but in giving up the 1 1/2″ for the plate, I would not have the rough height.  There is a 1/2″ lip from the skirt to the garage floor and the slider would be installed on the skirt so there would be a lip to help prevent water seepage.  If this installation is acceptable, what kind of sealer could I use under the door sill?  Just silicone or is there something specifically designed for this application (other than pre-fabed jamb sills)

As always, your input and ideas are greatly appreciated.

Brian…..Bayview Renovation

 

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Replies

  1. rez | Apr 24, 2005 11:44pm | #1

    bump

    sobriety is the root cause of dementia.

  2. rez | Apr 28, 2005 07:37pm | #2

    Let's try it once more.

    sobriety is the root cause of dementia.

  3. User avater
    NickNukeEm | Apr 29, 2005 01:44am | #3

    The instruction sheet states to use silly cone, and on a wood subfloor, that's what I would use (on top of a pan flashing.)  And concrete, however, I might try something along the lines of PLs polyurethane caulk.  Although in the long run, I'm not sure it would matter much.

    Probably more important is the condition of the sill.  It should be dead level side-to-side and front-to-back, and it sounds as though you have no room to shim if it's not.  Any off-level condition will transmit into uneven gaps along the side, some of which can be compensated for by adjusting the wheels.

    For a good primer on slider installation, there was an article a month or two in either FHB or JLC, but I'm pretty sure it was FHB.  Although doing it in one day assumes a lot.  I installed a Permashield door this week and it took 11 hours start to finish, but there was a ho installed overhead screen that had to be disassembled, then reassembled afterwords to get the door in.

    Good luck.

     

     

    I never met a tool I didn't like!
  4. joeh | Apr 29, 2005 02:19am | #4

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Southern Cal, slab on grade headquarters....the sliders all sit on the slab. At the coast the aluminum eventually gets eaten by salt, but inland they seem to last forever.

    Joe H

     

     

     

     

     

     

    1. gdavis62 | Apr 29, 2005 02:31am | #5

      Florida.  I don't live there, but I know the territory.

      Another monster housing market, with everything built slab-on-grade.  And not just one big long saltwater coastline, but one up each long side, with a wrap around the bottom, and all the way out west into the next timezone.

      Patio doors of all types.  Mounted directly down on the slab.  Most thresholds are aluminum, and about half have some sort of substrate core, such as wood, or a wood-plastic composite.

      But I would not mount a patio door sill directly to a slab, without some kind of pan flashing.  Outwater Plastics and Jamsill Guard are two that I have confidence in.

      1. joeh | Apr 29, 2005 03:11am | #6

        I think the silicone or urethane will do it, the flashing is going to do what?

        High tide will go over the sill, it's only another half inch?

        Joe H

        1. gdavis62 | Apr 29, 2005 03:14am | #7

          Have you ever seen pan flashing done under a window or door?

          1. joeh | Apr 29, 2005 03:30am | #8

            Gene, I don't see the point to it under the sill of a slider on a slab.

            Joe H

          2. gdavis62 | Apr 29, 2005 03:55am | #9

            You are entitled to your opinion.  I'm entitled to mine.

            If you've access to the FH archives of articles, check out one done about "building for the elements."  I think that is pretty close to the actual title of the article.  You'll see a professional builder using tinned copper sill pans under all doors and windows of a Massachusetts beach house.

            You may live a charmed life, and may have put in hundreds of patio doors, none of which have ever leaked water to the inside and ruined expensive ceiling, floor, or wall finish work.

            But if a water leak comes back to bite you, you'll wish you would have used a pan flashing.

            Sealant under the sill can do nothing to prevent water from climbing over the threshold, like in the case of wind-driven rain.  It also can do little to prevent water from getting to the inside when the joint between jamb and sill fails.  A sill pan is the answer to both these conditions of occurence.

             

          3. joeh | Apr 29, 2005 04:17am | #10

            Gene, I'm talking about a sliding glass door. Wind hitting the door runs down into the sill/track.

            It is already above the pan flashing, and it will go under the door unless there's some kind of seal I'm not familiar with on the bottom of the slider.

            Joe H

             

          4. gdavis62 | Apr 29, 2005 04:35am | #11

            I spent a lot of years in the door and window biz, both commercial and residential.  Sliders can leak just like swingers.

            Look, if you are in a sheltered area, with a nice huge roof overhang, don't worry about it.  Use a couple tubes of good sealant under the threshold and get on with your life.

            But if there is a potential for blowing rain, you might want to consider a pan like Jamsill Guard.

            Another consideration is what's inside, where any leakage might puddle.  If it is just a concrete slab underneath, and tile finish, what can a little water do every great once in a while?  Why worry?

  5. DanH | Apr 29, 2005 04:38am | #12

    There's nothing wrong with putting your threshold right on the concrete, provided:

    1) That's the level of your finished floor inside (+/- a layer of vinyl, perhaps).

    2) You don't have trouble with standing water near the door.

    If you put down a wood subthreshold, you'll still have to worry about seepage under it, so seepage isn't really an issue so long as water never stands higher than the threshold.

    It's definitely possible to seal a metal threshold to concrete and get a water-tight seal, at least as much as you can get anything of that nature water-tight.

    One important thing to be careful of is to not overdo with the caulk -- A couple of moderate-sized beads of caulk, one near the outside edge and one in an inch or two, is all you need. Any more caulk will just make it harder to get a good seal.

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