Replies

1. 
   sundogdesign | Apr 18, 2003 09:15am | #1

   hey there, Im writing from canada as well, and we use them alot.  We started out with the blue max but have moved on to quadlock, not for any particular reason, we just liked them more.  The companies will actually send out info or trainers sometimes, i have found them to be vary supportive.  I have found the formwork offers a savings in labor, but a higher cost to buy, about 3.80 a sqft in BC, but labor is around half.  Generally, after pouring, the finished thing is 15% more money with the insulated forms, but you end up with the equivalent to a framed, insulated and vapor barriered basement ready for drywall.  i have found especially on larger houses and commercial applications where subtrades can just move in and go to work, there is an overall savings in that efficiency.  as far as insulation goes, i think they say its R35 or 38 but effectively its almost R50.  As far as using it for a whole house goes, i personally havent had the opportunity to do it, but i, and a few other guys i know are definitely into it, whenever we get around to building our own houses......cheers.

2. 
   steve | Apr 18, 2003 04:33pm | #2

   here in sw ontario, there are a few going up, stopped at one last week on the way to work, interesting system

   hung kitchen cabinets in one last year, really cold outside, but unfinished house felt tight and warm, and really really quiet(no outside noise)

   it had wooden bucks for windows and doors, embedde plastic cleats on 6 in centers for drywall, trim and cabinets cabinets went in easily, ordinary wood screws grbbed just like in wood studs

   blocks go up just like lego toy blocks and you fill the cavities with concrete

1. 
   OregonBob | Apr 18, 2003 08:59pm | #3

   My brother-in-law in Juneau hired some subcontractors to build with these forms.  It was a rather large project due to a daylight basement.  They put up the forms and got called to another job before they had a chance to pour concrete.  The rain fell for many days, the forms filled partly with water which then froze.  The resulting expansion caused many of the lower forms to break or move out of plumb.  He had to wait for the ice to thaw to repair the damage.   What a nightmare!  I'm not trying to scare you.  Just telling you this because:  A) I think it's funny as h*ll, and B) Use a sub with half a brain, or at least experience.

3. 
   Piffin | Apr 19, 2003 04:01am | #4

   Welcome in here Nator ( is that short for Northern Gator?)

   You might try using the search button here - sometimes it works- and enter ICFs and other related terms. There have been a few discussions on this.

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   donpapenburg | Apr 19, 2003 04:33am | #5

   I used them to build my house  went up to the eve . The gable ends are the only exterior walls that are framed . I would definatly do it again.

1. 
   Piffin | Apr 19, 2003 05:09am | #6

   Me too. What I like best about living in ICF is the quiet.

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   donpapenburg | Apr 19, 2003 05:24am | #7

   I'm not done yet ,but I live there during the day and notice that unless some one has a loud muffler I can't hear a car drive up. The worst noise is from the Termatru door leeking air.

1. 
   Piffin | Apr 19, 2003 05:55am | #8

   LOL, I've never met a Thermatru that I didn't hate..

   Excellence is its own reward!

4. 
   dthodal | Apr 19, 2003 06:59pm | #9

   Used several of the brands on different jobs. Last few full house use was with CEMPO blocks, a styrofoam and cement mix.

   There are some advantages to their use as well as some disadvantages... like everything. But I find the disadvantages usually outweigh their advantages in a heating climate.

   Some thoughts and observation: First and formost in my mind is the exaggerated R-value hype. Testing done by Oak Ridge NL and others, determined that the R-value was much less than claimed. In heating climates, the effective insulative value of the wall was/is no greater than the standard R-value for the form...ie. most blocks use a EPS or similar form with a nominal total thickness of 3-4". At an industry rated R-4per inch, that equates to an R-16 max for walls. What they did find was that in a cooling climate the effective R-value was much greater than claimed.

   I have not found any studies that tried to evaluate the effect of ground heat in the entire structure as the forms usually serve as foundation walls as well. My experience here in Montana is that the heat efficiency is not anything spectacular in winter. But it definitely helps in summer.

   One of the first studies done by HUD in Maryland compared a conventional 2x4 with fiberglass batts to typical ICF wall house. The long and short was they recognized about a 20% energy savings. Hardly surprising with the comparison they chose. Consider that the difference in nominal wall thickness was twice as much for the ICF. Just the additional air space generated by another 4" of wall cavity would have increased the R-value of the stick wall by almost 50%. The comparison has no accuracy and only served to justify ICFs. I can assure you the increased cost of using the ICF was more than 20%.

   Another issue which few people are willing to address is the energy use of the entire product life span; the manufacturing process must be considered in any discussion of energy efficiency. Cement and EPS production are both costly in terms of energy consumption and environmental hazards.

   For a well insulated house, you are better off to double frame your house walls will 2x4, using a 2x8 for plates and blow in a densepack cellulose. Better insulation, less energy consumption and much less expensive than ICFs to build.

   walk good