Replies

1. 
   rlrefalo | Jan 26, 2009 04:30pm | #1

   I've got to do that soon. Our plan is to net on the inside of the purlins on the inside  and outside, then blow with cellulose.

    At the sill I intend to put 4 inch rips of foam to keep the cellulose off the slab. Then cover the walls with the metal panels.

   The ceiling will be covered wiyh metal and then blown with cellulose.

   That's the plan, but I'd like hear some feedback from someone who has done this too.

   Rich 

    

2. 
   Clewless1 | Jan 26, 2009 05:51pm | #2

   Foam would probably be great ... as long as you cover it w/ e.g. gypsum wall board (GWB). Code requires foam be protected and that GWB be in "substantial contact" with the surface of the foam. Pretty standard code language that has been in place for quite a while, now. Not sure if other materials would suffice as a fire rated construction (e.g. metal). Your BO should be able to give you an idea of a good way to handle this.

3. 
   frenchy | Jan 26, 2009 06:11pm | #3

   wivell

    it's never that simple.

     Because I was near a plant that made SIP's I got great prices by buying direct.. if I had to go through a lumberyard there would have been no way in the world for me to buy them..

       I was also able to get ICF's at a tremendous price and in retrospect I wish I'd done the walls with ICF's rather than SIP's   Either way they are both  far superior to pole building for ease and costs.. (and thermal efficency)

    I understand that not everybody is willing to do that much work to find low prices..

     Stick framing is really very inefficent there is thermal bridging issues at every stud..

      plus I don't know where you are so I can't address issues like wind damage etc..

4. 
   DaveRicheson | Jan 26, 2009 07:49pm | #4

   I'm looking to build a garage/shop.

   How much it gets used for a garage is inversley proportional to how much it will be used for a shop. The level of insulation wil depend on its' dominant usage.

   Mike Smith will be along shortly with some good advice. He has done quite a few pole barn structures for the uses you decribe.

   My own shop is a metal clad framed building. Standard 2x6 walls with sheating and house wrap. 10' ceilings and drywall interior, with a trussed roof. When i ran the numbers years ago it was almost a wash on cost for a pole vs. framed structure with the interior finish the same. Good air sealing and detailing are a little easier with stick framing for me, so that was also a driver in my selection.

   I do not work in there a lot so my heat stays at 50 degrees most of the time, bumped to 55-60 when am working. Can't tell you the number of heating degee days we have here, but I have used under 200 gal. of propane over the last three winters, with a 90+ forced air furnace.

5. 
   tkiser | Jan 26, 2009 08:18pm | #5

   Look into this product http://www.accbt.com/project_gallery.html They are made local here.

   View Image

   Tim

1. 
   wivell | Jan 26, 2009 09:59pm | #6

   Know anyone who has used them?

   Approximate cost  for10' in height, load bearing, per lineal foot?

6. 
   bstcrpntr | Jan 26, 2009 10:34pm | #7

   We have built a few pole barn houses.

   We use the netting and blow insulation in the walls.

   If you use batts you are guaranting a mold problem.  I have been told this by a few insulators here. Your climate may vary.

   If you have further questions just ask.

   October 17th, 2009

   Jeremy and Lisa

   Was there ever any doubt?

1. 
   wivell | Jan 26, 2009 11:42pm | #8

   Netting on the inside of both sets of purlins like Rich mentioned?

   I like that idea. 

   Just wondering what other ideas are out there.  Since I haven't started yet I'm opne to any and all options at this point.

1. 
   MikeSmith | Jan 26, 2009 11:56pm | #9

   wivell....   some  of it  depends  on your  siding  choice  and  strategy

   but  basically....  if  we're   doing  clapboards  then  i  pour  my  slabs  and  use  a PT  shoe  between  the  posts  and  stud  my walls

   if it's  an unheated   structure,  i use  the  studs  to  give a nailbase  for  shelving  , etc

   if  it's  a minimally  heated  structure  and there is   no  insulation under  the slab... then  i'd  just  insulate  the  stud wall...  your  choice  of  insulation

   sometimes  we  do  pole-barn  construction for  residential  additions.. so  they  will  be super insulated  with  a minimum of  2"  under the slab and  at  the edges

   we  set  our  posts  (  pt  4x6  treated  to  .60 )  in  the  flat  orientation  (  3 1/2 thick  wall ).....  and  stud  in between  with  2x4  (  3  1/2 )

   then  we  horizontal strap the wall with  2x2  (  "Mooney Wall" )  and  blow  the  5" wall with  dens-pak  cellulose

   so...  there  are  many  different  strategies  you can  use dependign  on what  your  are trying to accomplish

    Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   wivell | Jan 27, 2009 12:25am | #10

   Mike,

   I like the idea of a stud wall in between posts.  If I went this route and used 2" insulation under the slab, how would you insulate the edge of the slab while keeping out rodents,bugs, etc. ?

   The structure will be heated - likely radiant in the slab. 

   I think CMU block work for foundations is still relatively cheap in my area, probably $1.50 per block for labor especially since this would be on grade work with no scaffolding involved.  That's why I'm considering a conventional foundation.

1. 
   MikeSmith | Jan 27, 2009 05:10am | #12

   wivell... when we build pole barn structures the bottom band is probably a pt 2x10... the 2x10 is set as the form board for the slab...if you put 2" of foam at the edge of that slab between the slab & the 2x10, it will insulate the edge and get covered by the 2x4 pt shoeMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   wivell | Jan 27, 2009 05:23am | #13

   Thanks - makes senseSounds like this might be a good way to go.

2. 
   bstcrpntr | Jan 27, 2009 01:15am | #11

   When we have steel siding like normal pole barns, we run our studs horizontal 16" oc.

   We staple the fabric to those "studs" then blow in between them.

   What you don't want is to have the insulation not filling the metal siding, does that make sense?

   If you aren't doing metal siding then my point is nullified.

   View Image

   October 17th, 2009

   Jeremy and Lisa

   Was there ever any doubt?

   Edited 1/26/2009 5:16 pm by bstcrpntr

   
1. 
   wivell | Jan 27, 2009 05:26am | #14

   "What you don't want is to have the insulation not filling the metal siding.."Are you applying the fabric to the "outside" purlins as well or blowing the insulation tight to the exterior metal siding?

1. 
   bstcrpntr | Jan 27, 2009 05:47am | #15

   tight against the metal siding, keeps all insulation same temp and no condensation, if you use batts in the walls I showed then you have a condensation problemOctober 17th, 2009

   Jeremy and Lisa

   Was there ever any doubt?

7. 
   shelternerd | Jan 27, 2009 08:22am | #16

   I use foil faced poly iso taped between the wall lumber and the siding as described on my site here: http://www.chandlerdesignbuild.com/files/PoleBarnOutbuildingsDetail.pdf

   Should give you some ideas any way, have fun with it.

   m

   ------------------

   "You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."

1. 
   wivell | Jan 27, 2009 05:01pm | #17

   Good Stuff.

   Thank you for the link.