Interior finish for post and beam
darayl
| Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on
I’m having a hard time finding a finish for beams and ceiling in a timberframe house. I want a clear finish which will not hold dust and be easy to vacuum.
I’ve tried Timber Jack from Cabot, and being water based, it raises the grain and would need sanding and a second coat. I’ve tried boiled linseed colored with a bit of oil stain and it looks great but here in New Hampshire you need the windows open for the smell. I last tried olive oil ( don’t laugh) with a little stain and the results were fantastic. My lady says it will eventually turn racncid. Any thoughts or recomendations?
Replies
My posts and beams are mostly hidden, but I have a few exposed ones and I just sanded them with ROS and applied a single coat of water-based poly, which worked just fine.
There are numerous choices, that aside-
Olive oil will go rancid, But mineral oil will not.
We use mineral oil sold as a laxative from the pharmacy for soapstone.
But I like Hood Everlast low VOC urethane varnish for interior clear woodwork. Great stuff, I buy it in five gallon cans over the internet in the lowest sheen they sell. It is slow drying due to the low VOC (275 grams per liter) but it is still oil based and it sets up hard enough to use for wood floors.
Doesn't smell as bad as the high VOC stuff either (I think they were trying to develop a low odor finish for office buildings when they discovered that the market cared more about the low VOC attribute.
If the low sheen is still too shiny for you they sell a flattener additive to make it flatter.
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"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
Is the Hood stuff hard enough for a pine floor ? That will be my next project in building this new old house. I've milled some 20" wide pine that the girfriends dog will domolish in a flash.
I don't think the Hood will hold up to a dog. You would need a very deep penetrating oil for that such as polymerized tung oil cut 40% with laquer thinner. You need to go down deep deep deep. Forget the low VOC and go for the dog resistance. Frenchy will probably chime in here about the marvels of shellac right about now.------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
Soapstone can get constipated?
As others have said olive oil will turn rancid but Walnut oil will not. I use it all the time on butcher block counters. Don't know if yours is a good app though
Do I have to be "nuts"to use it? I'll bet it would be pretty pricey doing 2000+ sq.ft.
Works out to $40 gal based on the 8oz bottle I have. You might be able to get a bulk discount. Thats not much more than other high quality finishes. And you can cook with the leftovers.
darayl,
If you go to 85891.1 & 94941.1 you'll find my timberframe
What I found is shellac..
Now shellac is the safest product you can use on timber.. you've been eating it all of your life, it's on pills and most candy.
It's also the finish of choice for fine antques because it really brings out the beuaty of wood..
It's durable as heck! several people here have worked on floors done in shellac that are 80+ years old!
and It can go on beams etc. without a lot of skill or effort!
Plus it's relatively cheap , biodegradeable, renewable, eviornmentally friendly, and can have scratches and damaged repaired without any messy sanding or real effort.. the repair when it's done is invisable and so simple you'll damage stuff just to show off!
PS. shellac is harder than other finishes and unlike oils etc.. doesn't need periodic renewals..
You make shellac sound good enough to eat, but isn't the stuff we buy in a can really high in VOCs? That's not healthy!
I too am building a post and beam structure, and deciding how to finish the wood. I built my own butcher block countertops about 6 years ago and finished them with olive oil. Have not experienced any rancidity yet...why would timbers be any different?
shawn
My cabin is post and beam......solid white pine beams etc. I used Watco with a wee bit of coloring I added myself. It looks good from the get go and will darken with age. Olive oil?.......save it for the salad bowl.
I could be wrong but Alcohol is the vehicle/solvent for shellac and if it is considered a VOC , it is far less harmful than petrochemicals like xylene, toluol, and the other derivitives from fossil fluid.
Like, drink a glass of everclear, or a glass of mineral spirits?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
And wouldn't the alcohol evaporate-
then no Voc's ?
I have only used Shellac (Bull's Eye brand) a couple of times, and I just about passed out from the fumes. Check out the MSDS- not good. I think the VOC content is over 700g/L, which is very high ("low VOC" is considered less than 100 g/L). It does contain alcohol, but also methyl isobutyl ketone, which is the solvent that is gonna kill ya.
If you are interested in indoor air quality, check out the wood finishes from Bioshield: http://www.bioshieldpaint.com/index.php?main_page=products&cPath=4&BioID=b996641edbff1a478b0ac92fb670e87a
shawn
PS As for olive oil, I'm not saying I'd use it on my timbers, just saying that it could be done!
shawncal,
That's the trouble with a little bit of knowledge. Shellac itself is nothing but bug juice. the butt juice from the Lac bug.. Alcohol quickly disapates.. like I said an hour later you can't detect it.. all that you will be able to detect is the soft sweet smell of the shellac as it hardens. That it;'self is a short maybe 30 minute at best time frame.
Alcohol is used to disolve it. The same alcohol used to sterilize the skin prior to giving you a shot..The same alcohol used to clean surfaces in the doctors offices and in hospitals. The same alcohol you drink when you have a beer or glass of wine..
What is added to shellac and alcohol is 2% by volume to keep whino's and drunks from getting a cheap drunk.. That's the methyl isobutl ketone you speak about.. 2% by volume.. It's also in a lot of other things you use around the house daily.. What's 2% of a gallon? a shot glass?
If you are that afraid of it, simply buy pure medical grade alcohol. Or search around for alcohol that has been denatured by something other than methyl isobutl ketone. You can denature alcohol many ways, add 2% gasolene, or methanol etc.. anything to prevent kids and whinos from getting a cheap drunk..
Edited 4/12/2008 11:42 am ET by frenchy
That's the trouble with a little bit of knowledge.
You know alot about shellac. Admittedly, I don't. However, I would suspect that shellac likely contains more ingredients than just denatured alcohol and beetlejuice, and that the stuff you buy in the paint department is a far cry from what is used in food-grade applications. EVERYTHING starts with "natural" ingredients, but since the manufacturers are not required to disclose their proprietary ingredients, how do you know what's in my can of Bull's Eye Shellac in the workshop?
When I used shellac last winter, the overwhelming odor made me dizzy, and I had to slip on my respirator to finish the job. This has to be more than denatured alcohol, doesn't it? I haven't used it since, and am reluctant to believe it is a non-toxic product.
Set me straight...
shawn
Shawncal
Everybody reacts differantly to smells and oders. I suggest you do a little test to find out what you are reacting to.
Open a can of alcohol.. and wiff it.. check your reaction.. then open a can of denatured alcohol and smell it..
If you get a differant reaction then the denaturing ingrediant is what you are reacting to..
I've never ever heard or seen anyone react to shellac flakes them selves but try it.. go to a wood working store and buy some flakes and see if they cause you to react.. (heck you might not even need to buy the package just smell it!) <grin>
But that's about it.. Shellac is one of those things which has been around since dirt was invented (or nearly so)
Shawn
Shellac can be bought in flake form and you add your own alcohol, I mix all of my own. Pretty damn easy. You wont save much money doing it this way but you have more control over what your using.
That way you don't have to worry about what's in it. I don't care for premixed shellac, it has a shelf life and I don't like to count on my memory to know if the stuff is good or not. Time flies and all that stuff! I think maybe I used the stuff 6 months ago when it was actually 3 years ago, shellac doesn't keep once opened.
Shellac would be a real good choice for your timbers though, fast, easy, multiple coats in one day............ once done if you don't like the sheen you can knock it down with some 4-0000 steal wool and your beams will look as natural as if they had nothing on them.
I wear a respirator when I'm applying it in an enclosed area, figure that if I can smell it it must be getting into my system which cant be all good. If it really bothers make sure you get plenty of ventilation and stay out of the house for one day. After that You'll never smell it again.
Doug
Shawn,
Pure and simple oils don't last.. I have a grandfather clock I made which upon completetion I oiled per instructions.. Look at the clock today and you will see bare dull wood when previously it was shiney and almost glossy..
Shellac on the other hand is durable.. there have been posts here asking how to remove shellac from floors 80 years old.. I've personally seen furniture with their original finish still intact that are more than 300 years old.. sure scuffed and damaged but basically clear and shiney.
One other tid bit.. do not think that an oiled finish will protect the wood.. If I were to spill paint on that grandfather clock right now that paint go right into the pores of the wood. However if I'd shellaced that clock I could slop paint etc. all over it and using paint strippers etc. remove the paint and the shellac will have sealed the pores of the wood..
As for VOC's I don't know how to answer that.. Is the fumes given off from booze VOC's? I do know that an hour after I do a room even with the windows closed you can't smell anything.. (well maybe to soft sweet smell of the shellac drying but even that is gone in another hour)
Shellac is about as natual as a finish as there is.. As I said you've litterly been eating it all of your life.. they coat pills and candy with it. Granted instead of denatured alcohol they are using pure alcohol. However the 2% they use to denature alcohol so kids and whino's can't get a cheap drunk maybe very trival.
I've been using it now for years and while I do open windows when I can and the weather allows it, I have shellaced things just prior to my hypersensitive wifes arriving home and if it's been an hour or more she won't start wrinkling her nose and sniffing for the crime of "paint" (ps two weeks after I paint walls with latex she's still complaining about the smell (and that's in the summertime when the windows remain open)
I understand you may be reluctant to paint a finish because of runs drips sags etc..
My overythinned shellac technique prevents that.. Slop it on with a big 'ol barn brush and it comes out looking like the most expensive pro in the world did it..
The faster you go the better the finish! Seems crazy but it's absolutely true.. You see shellac dries so fast most people do a poor job trying to be careful.. when you splash it on the shellac isn't drying as you're stroke leaving brush marks and ridges.. If you miss a spot the 2nd coat melts right into the first coat and makes an invisable repair..
Agreed, the oil is not a sealer. Using my countertops as an example, the oil has to be periodically reapplied and even with that, it is still susceptable to stains. Not a perfect solution.
I would question how the food grade shellac compares to the stuff we use as a sealer...maybe this is why a third of us will die from cancer :(
Bioshield offers a wax-based sealer (called Hardwax) to be applied over their penetrating oil finishes. It probably doesn't have the durability of shellac, but then how durable does the finish need to be on timbers that rarely get touched? I'll try it.
shawn
Shawncal,
The part that remains after the alcohol evaporates off is as natural as can be. Shellac is made from the butt juice of the lac bug.. Edible, biodegradable, used on pills and candy around the world..
You can buy pure shellac flakes in a variety of colors from clear thru blonde, garnet, and amber. Straight from the branches where the Lac bug deposited it. Then you dissolve it in alcohol, pure medical grade if you demand.
Nothing made in a laboratory.. and if you wanted to go to the effort you could grow your own corn, brew your own alcohol, distill it to the required purity. (100 proof booze is only 50% alcohol) and you can't have ingrediants safer than that can you?
I'm a big fan of Land Ark wood finish for timber frames. I believe that it's made with all natural, biodegradable ingredients. I've used it on a few frames and you can use it all day in a small shop and not feel ill at the end of the day. It makes the beams look great and touches up easily too.
- Rob