I have two bids to install interior trim on my new house. One bid includes poplar while the other specifies Windsor One. The Windor One appears to be less expensive to start and less expnsive to install (no priming). The labor charegs are comparable. Which product should I choose?
As always, I welcome any and all opinions.
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Replies
I gather that "Windsor One"
I gather that "Windsor One" is a "factory primed" wood product. Such products can produce good results for interior work, but there are a couple of potential problems:
First, the "factory primed" coat is applied mainly to conceal the fact that the wood is finger-jointed from lots of fairly small pieces, vs being one piece of solid wood. The result is a product which initially looks and performs about like solid wood, but over time the joints can "telegraph" through the finish, especially if the wood is subjected to significant humidity swings. And if the wood actually gets wet it may disassemble itself.
The second problem is that the "factory primed" coat is not a conventional primer and does not have the "tooth" of regular field-applied primer. So it does not stick to the wood as well and the paint does not stick to it as well. Not usually a major problem for interior use, but you can have some paint separation (peeling) with those "significant humidity swings".
As I said, these are "potential problems". How likely they are in your case is hard to say. They would be unlikely to cause an entire house full of trim to go bad, but you could be looking at some "spot" repairs/repainting a dozen years hence that otherwise would have been avoided.
What Dan says does have some truth to it, but he has not used Windsor One. That product is IMO, the top of the line for this type trim. I have used it on a few jobs going back ten years and have never seen it telegraph any joints. Their glue joints are done better and the paint is a two step that is buffed and looks better than some finish paint jobs I have seen. It goes beyond being a pre-primed FJPine.
Additionally, they do extensive architectural studies and provide profiles that emulate the true historical styles.
I also do my own millwork on several houses using Poplar. That is a good choice as well to get a harder wood and custom profiles, but there is more wood waste and time involved, so the comparison prices sound right relative to each oher.
I use both...
...I've used WindsoOne for both interior and exterior. I've used stock poplar for interior paint-grade trim.
Comparing one to the other, I'd give the nod to WindsorOne for a few reasons:
WindorOne is made up of smaller pieces to make larger pieces. So it has edge glue joints as well as fingerjoint glue joints underneath thre primer. I was worried about those glue joints, so back in the day I tossed pieces in a drywall bucket of water and left a few out in the yard to weather. No joints ever broke, there was no joint swelling, no joints telegraphed through the primer. I was impressed.
Glueing up small pieces of wood to make a large piece (very much like stave construction with wood doors) can offset any uniform runs of grain in a large piece that could cause a piece of wood to move unfavorably. Not that WindsorOne flips wood this way and that intentionally to offset grain. But it happens as part of the manufacturing process, so the effect is there at least.
WindsorOne is already primed. And the prime is pretty much bulletproof. It's not a see-through white-wash pre-prime that you see on some pre-primed moldings. The primer is on all sides of the wood, so it's already backprimed. That prevents seasonal humidity swings from affecting the wood, so casing and trim joints are less likely to break.
With all that written...I have no issues with poplar. Again, it's my go to choice for paint grade trim. I can mill or build up any trim profiles I want with stock poplar. But if the WondsorOne can save you money and you can get it in the profiles that you want, there's no reason to not go with it.
Finger - Jointed?
If the material - any wood - is finger-jointed from shorter pieces, this will happen:
The long boards are made up of shorter boards - sometimes only a few inches long. These boards all have defects - knots - cut out , so have some grain at their ends that is likeley turning some and less than straight.
This grain will move with the inevitable normal swings in humidity found in any interior structure. These swings will cause these two pieces to move differently from each other, and the joint will telegraph. The finger-joint will show in time. No mater how much paint or nailing or whatever, unless the structure is kept at museum level temp and humidity, it will move and it will telegraph.
'Tis just a fact of life.
In Theory, that is true, but I can see that you have not used any Windsor one.
Interior Trim Materials
So there have been a couple of opinions so far. Keep the comments coming.
Maybe I should add that this is my house, not a customer's house and not a spec house.
Also, the house that was previously located here had clamshell casings and clamshell base which I believe have fingerjoints and I don't recall any telegraphing....
Unfortunate...
I have to say I'm surprised that you've have had problems with WindsorOne. I've seen other edge- and finger-jointed trim boards with weak primer and with broken/telegraphed joints, some while they were still in the sheds at the lumber yard. But I've never seen a broken joint on WindsorOne.
When I built a front porch bump out on the front of my own house several years back, I trimmed it with WindsorOne. Corner boards, soffit, fascia, balcony post sleeves, etc. Everything is WindsorOne except for the window casing. The flat window casing is stock from Marvin. The top and bottom railings and balusters are cedar. The handrails are mahogany. I went out this morning to give it a close up inspection and it looks pretty darn bueno after nearly a decade of New England summers and winters. No visible joints, no peeling paint.
Don't want to sound like a WindsorOne shill. But I have to say I have confidence in this product.
Regardless, to the OP, good luck with your decision and with your project.
Of course, you probably used their exterior stuff with the plastic coating for that. Harder for joints to telegraph through plastic.
Dan
https://www.windsorone.com/
Sorry Dan...
"Of course, you probably used their exterior stuff with the plastic coating for that."
Of course, you would be wrong.
Being wrong or ignorant on a subject has never stopped him from writing before!
Dan,
I was not aware they made a separate product for exterior. When did they start that? All I ever used from them was all the same stuff.
I went to their web site and they were advertising an exterior product which, through the weasel words, sounded to be plastic- coated. (But the site is remarkably short of hard details, which gives one pause.)
Dan
Give WindsorOne a call and talk to them about their products. Surprisingly nice and pretty informative real people.
The exterior product is wood but treated in such a manner to resist pests and rot.
Crazy Legs!
JB! Long time, hope all is well.
Outstanding!
Congrats!
Life here is pretty darn bueno. When the flying business went downhill post-9/11, I went out on a limb a couple of years after that and did a software, training and consulting start-up. After several years of too much coffee, too much computer keyboard time, too much time with a phone pressed to my ear, too little sleep, and just enough dumb luck, it all worked out. An enjoyable challenge from start to end, but I look back and wonder what the heck? An office boy I am not. Ugh. So glad to be done with that.
Still doing some occasional carpentry and cabinet work. I like that. Spent a good part of the summer with a pick-axe, shovel, and wheelbarrow, moving dirt on my property. As bizarre as it sounds, I like that too.
Yessir, I am still flying, but not so much. It was a busy summer but right now I'm in the middle of about 8 weeks off.
Hope to be where you are in a few years, watching the kids slide into adulthood. Almost there!
Best to you JB.