For framers in northern areas where full poly vapour barrier is general practice –
what’s your experience with standing interior walls after trusses are up and insulation/vb installed? I know this is standard with commercial stuff and fire-rated walls that need the DW running through, but my experience with residential always has all walls up first, then trusses, then insulate and vb later.
I’m just looking to move things along a bit more effeciently for getting stuff dried in and thought I might try something new.
thanks all,
j
Replies
BUMP
View Image
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
thanks for the bumpthat has got to be THE MOST AGGRAVATING little piece of video i have ever seen in my life. j
How can I copy that gif to use in an email?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
How can I copy that gif to use in an email?
Right click and "save picture as" to somewhere on your computer and attach as normal to the email.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Tried that, all I get is a still image."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
View Image
Try "copy". http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
"Copy" with the right mouse button and paste it on your email. I just tried it.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Doesn't work. I'm thinking the problem is that I am using "outlook" for company emails, and it has other similar restrictions. I know that I cannot use the animated icons."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I'm thinking the problem is that I am using "outlook" for company emails, and it has other similar restrictions. I know that I cannot use the animated icons.
In a new message, try changing to rtf or html format (it's one of the buttons up there, and varies by version). It ought to at least show the gif then.
Now, whether or not you can "send" such an image may well be tied to mail setting on your machine, and any firewall/mail gateway rules on the company's system.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
html is my default. rich and plain text are the options."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I emailed it to myself using Gmail. Worked finehttp://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
It's been some time since I framed anything for a living,
But when I lived in Florida we always framed all of the exterior walls, then set trusses, then framed the interior walls.
A few differences.
1. In the Florida we didn't have to lap interior wall plates over exterior plates.
2. For some reason, when I moved north, everyone was set on making sure every truss was nailed to every interior wall it crossed. At the time, not all trusses were engineer that way, in fact some were engineered to only bear on walls at specific points. The first winter I was in the north, noone believed me that we were asking for trouble. Until three trussess broke, and the engineers investigation blamed it on them bearing, and being nailed to walls where they shouldn't have.
So everyone was reluctant to try anything new.
I have framed a shell, then trussed, roofed, closed it in, then went back and built interior walls.
It was kind of a pain in the a$$ because you still had to lap all the top plates, get a palm nailer and pay attention to the layout. You also have to be very carefull, becuase even though trusses may not have much push under a normal load? Add a roof, and then a little snow and you get push. Not rafter type push, but you do get it.
You have to brace it well, and moke sure it stays that way until done.
But in the end, how big are you building? How big are the trusses? There is a distinct advantage to building the shell, trussing it and the building interior walls.........but only if you do it right.
The house in question is very little - 28x40 - with a simple gable. On bigger houses or anything with more complex trusses I put the interior walls up first and then walk around on them and set stuff on them while the trusses go up. On a little thing like this the trusses will tip up just like a simple garage, so whether there's walls inside or not won't make a big difference. That's why I thought it would be a good candidate for the roof first experiment. I actually don't have to tie interior wall top plates to the outside walls either although I always do since I learned to build in an area where it was required. I actually estimated a reno last week in which an interior wall had completely pulled away from the exterior wall. Other issues going on there too but one thing that allowed it was no structural tie at the top plate. j
Structural walls up first, then trusses, then interior walls, get it dried in (sheething, roof decking, felt, house wrap) while interior walls are framed, run elec. plumbing etc, then insulate, vb, and rock.
So yeah... walls, trusses, ins, vb.
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.net
See my work at TedsCarpentry.com
as Ted said, just make sure you imbed strips of vb between interior wall top plates and intersections with ext walls ..
"imbed strips of vb between interior wall top plates and intersections with ext walls .."I think I know what you are getting at, that you want a good seal against air infiltration where interior wall meets exterior, but can you describe what you said in more detail?
Interesting to me that posts so far have looked at the structural parts of completing the insulated shell first and then going back to the inside. By far the biggest objection to actually doing this that I know is from the plumbers and sparkies who would have to do a two-stage rough-in. The more I think about it the poorer an idea it appears to be. I may put the roof on before the interior walls but insulation and vb has to be later, at least on the walls. Maybe the ceiling could be beforehand ... hmm.Sometimes I should stick with building stuff and quit speculating on the 100 other ways it could be done. j
I put up trusses first and then partitions. That's just how I was taught.
Regarding the strips of VB behind and over parts, I have tried that and have come to think that is not the way to go. It's hard enough to get the guys to remember them, but then the trades come in and hack it to pieces. For wires penetrating the top plates, there is no good way to seal the poly to the wires short of crawling up in the attic and gooping on acoustical sealant.
I have come to think a better approach is to seal the vb to the top plates, and then gun foam the penetrations in the plate. (in effect using the top plate as a vapor/air barrier.)
<I have come to think a better approach is to seal the vb to the top plates, and then gun foam the penetrations in the plate. (in effect using the top plate as a vapor/air barrier.)>Does your AHJ allow for that? Obviously yes, but that's just a surprise to me. My experience has been that most places where vb is used demand that it be continuous, which is the reason for the strips over the walls. If you're butting to the wall you don't have a continuous vb. I know we sometimes also forget the strip and just goop the plastic to the top plate and end stud. Because I'm otherwise quite careful and it doesn't happen that often my inspector hasn't made me take anything apart, but he does always comment on it. I inject electrical and plumbing penetrations with accousti-seal from the bottom/inside unless the subs have really made a mess of the holes. Just don't get the new guy to do that job or he'll be covered in black goop by coffee and he'll quit for a McDonald's job by lunchtime. ;).j
"Does your AHJ allow for that? Obviously yes, but that's just a surprise to me. My experience has been that most places where vb is used demand that it be continuous, which is the reason for the strips over the walls."Yes, in fact it was our inspectors expect to see. Again, the top plate (or stud against the ext. wall) is considered part of the vapor/air barrier. As far as injecting acoustical sealant from the bottom, how are you insuring that the poly itself is sealed to the wire or pipe? It seems like you would have to pump enough to force some up through the hole to the other side of the plates and onto the poly. Seems pretty tough to accomplish, especially if you have a 5/8" hole and a couple of #12 wires and a double top plate.
<As far as injecting acoustical sealant from the bottom, how are you insuring that the poly itself is sealed to the wire or pipe?>With the poly strip sandwiched between the two top plates you don't really have to squirt it in that far for the accousti-seal to goop up all that space around the wires or pipes and contact the vb too. Anything where they've got a little crazy with the hole-hawg I spray foam. That would be a downside of ceiling vb first - sealing to penetrations would be trickier and the plumbers/electricians would be grumpier in the first place so less likely to cut in carefully. j
OK, you put the vb BETWEEN the plates? That I haven't done. Interesting idea though.Really, I don't mean to start an argument. The main reason I quit the strips is that I got frustrated with subs and carpenters not taking insulation/ air sealing seriously. So many strips would get forgotten and those that were remembered would be in tatters that it was easier to just give up on the strips and keep my blood pressure down. What I like about my method is that a separate crew, with separate goals and instructions can go in and air seal/vapor barrier the building. If I was doing the carpentry work myself (or at least closely supervising it)and I had the same subs job after job, I might go back to using the strips. I do detest running beads of acoustical sealant.
When the strips go in between the top plates they don't get ragged or blow off or torn off plus you can walk around on the 2nd top plates for the roof install. Also the holes that the subs make don't tear the plastic. Each to their own, when it comes down to it as long as it all works out. j
I always dried in first and stayed on outside things first.Saved inside things for bad weather days. I rarely missed work due to rain or snow.
In the past 25 plus years I have always framed all walls, lapping and locking top plates, insulating corners and channels then add exterior shear and VP. In my opinion it makes for a much tighter, cleaner frame.
In our area many of our interior walls are used for lateral shear walls and structural ties to the roof. It's not very productive to frame just parts of the walls and to go back latter and finish the rest.
To me it is more cost effective to finish everything you can on that particular phase of construction you are working on. The more loose ends you leave...the more work you create for yourself later. Now I know framing interior walls is almost a whole phase in itself but as I said, here it is a lot of structural work for us also not just simple partitions.
But there is always more ways to skin a cat... this is just how I usually do it.
Howie
I always put on the trusses before inside walls because I don't like working in the rain.
Tha last few houses I put on a whole ceiling of vapour barrier, then resilient channels at 16 inches. Then interior walls built with steel studs , top plate screwed to resilient. Takes care of any truss uplift issues too.
Have a good day
Cliffy
<Tha last few houses I put on a whole ceiling of vapour barrier, then resilient channels at 16 inches. >How did installing the ceiling vb first go over with your plumbers and electricians in terms of attitude and rate? j
The vapour first is a minor irritation for wiring the ceiling boxes. I cut a slit in the center of the house, climb up and do whatever has to be done then tape it up later. Plumbing same deal. It is alot easier I find thatndoing vapour barrier room by room later. No 12 inch poly to worry about over top plates etc.
Havea good day
Cliffy
Just curious as I just started strapping my ceilings with RC-1, are the wall assemblies rigid enough just attached to the RC at the top of the walls? Would you do a single long wall (no corners to brace it) with that technique? Because if it is rigid enough, then I'm going to be kicking myself for not doing that in the first place, now that I have to hang 1500' of RC1 in my house, and make heaven knows how many cuts....Z
By the time I start framing the interior walls, the ceiling is covered with 6 mil and then resilient at 16 inches on centre. (This is a little problem when the wiring goes in but nothing major) The resilient is perpendicular to the bottom chord of the trusses. The walls that are perpendicular (or any angle other than parallel) go in next. I usually use a few blocks of 1/2 ply between the top steel track and the bottom of the resilient to make up a little space because of the height of the wood walls being about 8 foot one. The walls are planty sturdy. I fire one screw through into every resilient that the wall passes under and about every 2 feet on the floor. If the wall is to get cabinets or shelving I put in appropriate blocking. I just did a 48 foot wall down the middle of a house with no probs. If the wall is parallel to the resilient and there is not one attatched to the trusses in the right spot, I add them where necesary.
Havea good day
Cliffy