Had another meeting today with a kitchen design place …
I’ve been making cold calls and setting up apts to drum up some new business.
Todays meeting went well … until the kitchen designer had time to sit in.
I’d been speaking to one of the owners and one of the managers … everything going well … nice and casual. Showed the pic portfolio, answered and asked questions …
Then the designer came in. Introduced as “the guy you’ll be spending the most time with” … as far as working the actual jobs …
It quickly went from “interview” to “test” to “stump the new guy” …
I’m posting this to remind other’s in the business … that I’m “interviewing” your company and staff every bit as much as you are interviewing me.
The guy was trying to get to the point of “how much experience U got” … without ever asking the direct question. I was quized on other local kitchen distributors and which lines they carry?
I think I did OK on that pointless game.
The other bone of contention was … how much does it cost to upgrade a typical 10×20 L shaped kitchen. I told him I’d let him know just as soon as my electrician got back to me.
Keep in mind … I was there to talk to them about subbing cabinet installs.
Not to offer full GC services.
Which … I’ll gladly offer. Give me some prints and I’ll get ya some prices …
But I couldn’t get the point of asking how much my electrician charges per outlet?
I don’t even need that info … I show him the prints … and he give me a set bid price.
The guy was also pushing “How do I know you will be available when we need the install done”? I dunno? Maybe call me and ask?
Was weird.
I’ll still see what they have to offer …. but they’re definitely down on the list now.
The designer is supposed to “fax me something” … some plans …
I still couldn’t figure if it’s a real kitchen or another “test” to see what I’d charge.
I had already told the first two guys what I generally charged …
and told him again when he came into the room .. and then again … and again.
It was almost like he wanted me to give firm numbers on a whole remodel for a kitchen that doesn’t exist? Odd. Even the “by the box” prices didn’t settle him down.
The only saving grace was when I left the office, one of the normal guys walked me out. I was too focused trying to figure out the designer to see how they were responding …
He said … “Well …. I guess that went pretty well … for the most part…”
I’m thinking he was just as confused as I was?
Anyways …
we’ll see if I get a test thru the fax. I’m not pricing a pretend job for practice.
Remember …. it’s a two way street.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Edited 11/17/2004 8:06 pm ET by Buck
Replies
Good post Jeff.
I used to do alot of kitchen installs by referal only throught the design/supply house.
I'd contract the whole job, sub the plumbing and electric if I couldn't or did not want to handle it.
Then they decided that they wanted to sell installed kitchens. They called in a select group of installers that they had been referring and had a meeting with us.
They laid out several printed scenerios for us to price out. Then they told us what they would pay. most of us came in lower than the numbers they were willing to offer.
I wasn't to clear on how they were going to handle the other parts of the work other than installing the cabs, and it was time for me to make a move, so I moved on. Ihave one of their work sheets that dictate per cabinet and per moulding. I revisited that spec sheet sometme ago, and it actually seems doable.
Anyway, the point I am getting to is that maybe you should suggest that they offer you a "play" kitchen to price out for them and see how that goes.
They've seen your work. Tell them give you a shot at something small.
Kitchens and baths are a great source of revenue. I purchsed a kitcen with a client of mine at a supplier. They seemed to like me and asked me if I'd be interested in reffereals. I did alot of displays for them in 4 showrooms, many of which still stand today, it's getting close to ten years since I was associated with them.
Worked in the owners home(s) many times including Block Island.
We know that we have to have a fit with people we work with. Sounds like maybe they don't fit with you. If they still don't get you, inspite of your confidence and experience then ditch'em. I'd say work hard to give them a chance at first though.
That kid is hungry, he's gotta eat.
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Jeff, would you ever consider just saying something like "I get the sense that you've had some bad experiences with subs like me in the past - is that true?". If he says "yes", then say I'm sorry to hear that but let me tell you why I think our service/compay is different.
If he says "no" then ask him "then why in the h*ll are you treating me like I'm some flunkie!!!". Kidding, don't do the latter.
- Rob
Rob....you might be kidding...but sometimes thats the best tact. A true craftsman doesn't take crappola from anybody.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
It's nice not to take the crap BED, but you know what happens at the end of the month...........
This subject has been ttalked about alot here. Hold yourself out and above is great, but ya gotta eat to.
Sometimes you gotta go in a little low and work your way up, or decide along the way to bail out. Still gotta eat.
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Shoulda done the takeaway if the designer was too aggressive.
Wheres Jeff anyways.....don't let them talk you outa your name!
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Two guys brought their dogs to the jobsite the other day. One kept trying to demonstrate the pecking order, it kept putting it's front paw up on the other's back. Finally the other went postal and the order was established. Sounds like the kitchen designer felt inadequate and needed to try to be top dog in there. Probably does it to everyone he comes near and makes everyone nuts. Sometimes to get a job you have to smile politely while someone makes an azz of themself.
Finally the other went postal and the order was established.
I prefer to call it going "carpenter"...
and your right ,it does seem to "establish order".....regards
You crack me up. Yer lookin for work, and yer bitchin about the way a prospective client interviews you...like, I said, you crack me up<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Jeff, I gave this some more thought. Don't ask me why...probably because the show "Wife Swap" didn't quite turn out like I thought it would. :-)
Anyway, one thing you might want to remember in the future when you make cold calls is to quickly get to the "who makes the decisions here?" question. Or in your case maybe it's "who would I be working with"? It struck me that maybe your slightly irritated guy got his ire up because he was brought into the picture AFTER a few other folks had already talked to you. Maybe he felt the need to p*ss on his territory a bit and he took it out on you. There's a great professional sales book that I highly recommend:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0446674494/qid=1100748522/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-5545895-0608824?v=glance&s=books
I don't know about your market but in our "little" town of Ann Arbor (about 120,000 people) there are gobs of cabinet & kitchen shops. I know you have to eat - I too am a straight commission sales guy so I feel your pain. But if you truly feel the guy is an a-hole then it's better to politely stand up to him and see if it resets the situation. If it doesn't and he remains an a-hole then you're better off in the long run not subjecting yourself to such a customer.
Good luck, Rob
I agree Rob, and thanks for the book suggestion. I'm creating another book list.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Maybe he felt the need to p*ss on his territory a bit and he took it out on you.
That could be it. I've worked with enough "designers" to know they're a touchy bunch.
Had another meeting today ... first place I contacted .... couldn't hook up until today.
Will be working with them starting the week after T-Giving, on a small project ... will big a bigger project that needs tile first, then cabs ... so I'll be doing the whole thing.
Will still wait to see what the "designer" is going to fax ... but not planning on playing any "practice quote" games. I'll call back and talk directly to the money guys.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Jeff.
Sounds to me like you just got tried on for size to keep their regular guys honest. ('Well, Buck says that he can do it for $x...'):
F'em. In the eye with a stick.
skipj
I did work for a group of designers.
Once
I came out of that with a litany of entries into the "things to know about designers" column. Things like - she either is hot or was thirty years ago. If the latter, beauty has been replaced with snitty. If you provide anything to them, you're not a supplier, you're a source. If thy want to source something from you, and call Thursday at 11, you can reasonably expect that they want said piece custom fabricated and fit without your visual inspection, and anything less than delivery by noon will be met with snitty. If you do it right the first time, it's because they overlooked something. If you revise it correctly, they forgot to fax you change 13B. If you charge them for above and beyond the initial scope of work, expect to receive snitty. You can't actually use color in the designer vocab. Blue and Red are out. Playful and frolicky are in. And, the reason most ASID guys are gay is the women they work with.
Not that I had a bad experience or anything.
Yeah. You got the tshirt too now. And the coffee cup. Cheers.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain