I will be building my deck this coming summer and would like to use ipe as the decking material. Has anyone worked with this material and can recommend a fastening system?
Handy Dan
I will be building my deck this coming summer and would like to use ipe as the decking material. Has anyone worked with this material and can recommend a fastening system?
Handy Dan
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Replies
You will find many, many recent comments about ipe decks in the archives.
Advocate
Oh Yeah!
Great stuff.
Very strong ( and heavy)
Doesn't rot
Looks fantastic
I countersink SSscrews in the face surface of it. The hidden fasteners systems generate a lot of comments that they don't hold strongly enough for the IPE`
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Love just about everything about Ipe except fastening it and breathing the dust.
I take it your in boston, stop over at Andersen Mcquaid (I think 170 fawcett street) in cambridge. They are a millwork supplier and custom molding company but they are also probably the largest Ipe dealer in Mass. The steps going into the front office are Ipe and I think they used Eb ty.
Ipe is a great product but some of the greatness (hardness) means its labor intensive to install. I've used SS ring nails and Eb ty's and both work well. The Eb ty will take longer but does look nicer. For a finish, use either Penofin or Messmer's, I like the Penofin Marine oil which is a clear finish rather than the Harwood formula which will darken the wood some.
Thanks DDay that is helpful information. HD
eb-ty!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just did a 200 sq. ft. deck with ipe and eb-ty. came out great. at the ends, i surface screwed with SS trimheads, which were then covered over by the flashing. looks great.
letus knowif those EB-ty's are still holding it down in two years.
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I've got a 600 sq. ft deck down with eb=tys. However, I did use plugged stainless screws at the ends of the boards. I also added a few screws where the board had to be "coaxed" into alignment.
That was in '02, holding fine, looks great. I will admit though, if the lumber wasn't completely dry to start with there would be problems when the shrinkage happened.
Gotta use DRY wood, shrinking 1/8" doen't seem like much, but it is if afterwards the clip is only in 1/8 deep by 3/8 wide. Even on ipe that's asking for trouble.
Chris
thanks Bender about the warning to have DRY wood. It's a good reminder for me to buy early and let it all hang out in storage for a while, though I don't imagine my lumberyard selling me wet wood (?)
Handy D
thanks Mr. Bozer. I will probably use Ebtys on this job. Did you go through a lot of biscuit joiner blades to get the job done? I also will need that tool any recommendations?
Handy D
Some suppliers can provide the Ipe with a continous slot for the eb-ty's.
yeah, in lieu of that option, I'd be tempted to use a slot cutter in a router and run a continuos groove, much ezier in my book.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
couple of years ago, that is how the reps recommended at the JLC live show.I don't know if IPE` actuyaly dulls the blades faster or if it just builds that wax/mineral scuz and bakes it onto th eblade to leave the cutting edge rounded like pitch build. I know I cleaned mine often.
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eb-ties, and construction adhesive...ss screws....and I think the dewalt bicquit machine was the most comfortable to use...5,000 square foot roof deck, in manhatten...wish we could have gotten a roof top delivery....carrying all them boards up thru the working kitchen was a real drag...believe me
That is NOT funny........but......I AM laughing........I can't help it, dangit!!
Many thanks to all the guidance re: the use of ipe as a decking material. Anyone else out there reading this: I really like the guidbook Building A Deck by Scott Schutter. The explanations are very clear, and he shows multiple solutions for the same problems. BYW he doesn't like ebtys because he says they loosen over time.
handy dan
I've heard that said several times so I don't use them. Otherwise, I like the concept
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The supplier I gave you in an earlier post, Andersen McQuaid would probably offer the grooves on the Ipe. They are a millwork shop so I can't imagine they would not but I don't know for sure, Ipe is tough on the machines.
Hi Fengelman
You did a ipe deck in a Manhattan penthouse. Whoa that must have been tough. Parking alone is a challenge.
Handy D
Hi Piffin
I am encouraged to hear that ipe does not dull the blade but rather gunks it up, as those biscuit blades are rather dear.
What is the JLC?
Handy D
I'm sure that it does dull the balde. I just think that the greater problem is keeping it clean. the buildup on tips is a hard waxy stuff. But the dulling feature of this wood is the mineral in it that keeps rot causing bacteria and bugs out of it. Specificly sulphur and silica that I know of.Journal of Light Construction
They sponsor the JLCLive trade show every year, making appearance in various portions of the country. They also have a website forum similar to this, tho more dry and technical - advertised for professionals only.
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Thanks Piffin. Your knowledge of Ipe is impressive. It seems that the very thing that makes ipe hard to work with it also its greatest virtue.
Dan
You have got it!I wouldn't say I'm all that impressed with my knowledge of IPE`, but I have probably used half an acre of it.
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It's the silica content that piffin wrote about that dulls the cutting edge.Eb-ty and other hidden fastener systems can be used with 1-by-4 ipe.For 2-by, I wouldn't do anything other than face screwing with stainless screws, then ipe plugs to cover the screwhead.Penofin is great stuff.There are also parrafin-based products that can be applied to new cut end grain to prevent checking. Depends on the MC of the wood, though.Regarding the gapping...find out if what you're being supplied with is green (less likely), air-dried, or kiln-dried. Gap depending on what you're getting.
that end planking ( breadboarding ) is the way to goI have had no luck w/ outside miters even w/ the most anal preparation / whereas inside miters look greatone deck where it was at eye level I ripped a piece 1X1" and "breadboarded" it and all good after four yrs ( to eliminate the groove showing and dress it up a bit )I've done close to Piffins 1 / 4 acre ( about half was w/ slotted material ) and my Dewalt biscuit cutter ( the only Dewalt tool I've ever owned ) shows no signs of ill will
thanks John Do I understand that you used a dewalt bicuit jointer but in the future would prefer the precut slot? Also did you glue the one by or use nails? HDan
definitely prefer the grooved ipe; the whole process is an incredibly involved on your knees project and the pregrooved wood eliminates close to half or more of the wrestling matchthe last couple of decks I did the groove did not seem to be an option and what they did have in the yard was to be moved upon payment and not to be stored - hard to be real rigid on what you will accept when your hopeful shipment is coming from Brazil to eastern seaboard over rail to Northwest w/ brokers all the while selling as it goesall my ipe decking has been w/ ebty / gorilla glue combo all flawless except for noted outside miters very unsatisfactorysome lattice type work and that ripped breadboarding type work I've used pneumatic gun SS nails & glue combo & worked greatmight note there was a thread a week or so ago presenting some real problems w/ ipe expansion / movement issues
feel for those guys and their projectsmight note ebtys are used in conjunction w/ SS screws trim headed / DO predrill
also meant to note ebty has a newer piece that is set up to provide for wider spacing of boards which I definitely prefer / ask for it!
many thanks John for your invaluable insights. It really helps to have the pitfalls ahead illuminated by those who have been there. I am still a ways off from the decking part of the job...
handy dan
John, I've done half-lap miters, held with glue then pinned with ipe dowels. Gives the same appearance as plugs after plugging holes when screwing with stainless.The half-lap with dowels holds tight, no gapping after several years.
thanks - I'll remember that optionit's a very special material knowing its strengths and shortcomings
Hi Sphere
That does seem like the logical way to get the slot and still save the end grain appearance. It seems so obvious, yet I don't know how ipe behaves on a router table.
Handy D
The continuous slot sounds like a time saver, though I am not sure what the end grain appearance would be like. Seems like you would be committing to a perpendicular plank at the end plus mitered corners.
Handy D
hi there,we did have to replace our blade halfway through the job. so factor that in, i guess. ipe is hard, hard stuff and kills blades in no time. i've only ever used two different biscuit joiners... a porter cable and a freud. my preference is the porter cable because i htink the handle makes it easier to use... but there may be better out there. best of luck.
Check with your lumberyard. Sometimes you can buy IPE with a groove already milled in it.My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard
IPE can swell a great deal when it is wet - be certain to space the boards well. It will shear off screws and move railings (at least in western WA when it rains all the time)
I'm currently laying about 700sf of ipe decking at my house in San Diego and used these hidden fasteners. So far, so good. Be prepared for the extra time involved to cut the biscuits, unless you get the pre-grooved planking. Looks *real* slick and these all aluminum fasteners won't crack like the eb-ty's (so I've read).
http://www.screw-products.com/deck-clip.htm
http://www.deckclip.com/main.html
Arty
Hi Artyone:
Thanks for the link to Deck Fasteners. I have to say that aluminum seems like a better way to go than plastic (read Eb-ty) and glue. I am very interested in your project...stay in touch
Handy D
I would be careful of Aluminum clips with the new ACQ pressure treated. If you go that route, I would use the grace vycor deck product and put it on every joist to keep the aluminum from contacting the ACQ.
The JLC show is below, and for the trades.
http://www.jlclive.com/JLCNE06/public/mainhall.aspx
Also, what people talk about with the end grain checking is a was like product Anchor seal or similar
Edited 2/21/2006 9:47 pm ET by DDay
Hi DDay
The manufacturer of the Deck Clip system make the point that the slot must have at least 3/8 of material under the slot on 5/4 material to avoid contact.
see here: http://www.deckclip.com/pages/Installation.htm
Handy Dan
oops, should have read your post before responding about the aluminum clips.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Just make sure those aluminum fasteners are not touching the underlying PT joists (there should be a space with that particular product, if you're following the directions) - if not, they will corrode.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial