So here’s the thing:
My parents have a flat roofed EPDM-coated porch in their backyard (Wakefield, RI) and they want to setup a small fence to dress up the roof of the porch. The cedar fence will be supported by 4×4’s which my dad plans to fasten through the EPDM and into the roof below with double ended screws.
Now obviously a deck that floated on top of the EPDM would be the safest bet to prevent leakage…but I’ve also heard that EPDM is self-healing, but I don’t have much hands-on experience with the stuff.
So the question is this: how do we make sure there will be no leakage around this double-ended screw? If caulk is used, will it interact badly to the EPDM material? Would peel and stick flashing pulled down over the screw help resist leakage? Is anything at all necessary? (we are nervous about relying on the claim that EPDM is self healing because water tends to puddle in one corner of the roof – so standing water may be an issue.
Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!
Justin Fink – FHB Editorial
Edited 5/12/2005 4:36 pm ET by JFink
Replies
Justin- it is NOT self healing. Do NOT nail/screw through it unless you like leaky roofs. Matter of fact, it is just a big sheet of rubber in effect. It is joined at the edges by chemical glues typically, and patches and or sealants from the manufacturer seal through penetrations. Proper flashing details are typically required to get a man'fr warranty.
If you have ponding- get that fixed pronto using a roof cricket to slope the water to the drain/downspout.
I think that you are thinking of Ice and Water shield, et al which is self-healing, but I wouldn't use it as a sole roofing system- it is designed as a backup to asphalt shingles.
Go with the sleeper system. There are a bunch of guys here that can give you the lowdown on how to do that right. It will probably require some elements to penetrate the roof membrane, which will in turn require proper flashing by someone who knows what they are doing. Good Luck, Roy
using a roof cricket to slope the water ..
What is that?? Just a home owner with NO money! I had the roof 'fixed' awhile back and now I got standing water..
YEP! I can't get ahold of the guy...
Roof crickets are a fancy term for countersloping the roof at wall intersections, chimneys, and low spots to prevent ponding and direct water to the proper roof drain. They typically look like an acute triangle (30, 60, 90)... but I bet you already knew that. The only solution I can think of is to redo that part of the roof - if it is looselaid (I doubt it) you might be able to get a cricket underneath and then just reflash. Otherwise you might put the cricket on the surface and put new EPDM over that, with the proper bonding at the seams and flashing at the back edges. Good luck in getting your guy to call you back, R
Justin, I'm just a muddler, but I don't think roll-epdm is going to self seal. Also, I'd be paranoid about trusting to epdm sealant to seal around those screw holes.
If the EPDM wasn't down already, I'd be tempted to try and put 'bumps' into it. Then screw into the high points.
Hmm... all I can think of are sloppy solutions. Like getting some of the epdm self adhesive patches/boots. Cut a piece of something to serve as the bump (make edges the epdm can adhere to), epdm-patch over the bump, then screw the fence down through the bump and into the roof. Seal around the edges of the patch. With this sloppy solution, the water has to get by the patch before it can get to the penetration caused by the screws. But that is pure hacking.
surely someone has a more elegant solution.
jt8
It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. --Chinese proverb
No it is not self healing. It will seal around a nail for a period of time but with temperature changes etc., it will lose it's ability to grip and seal around the nails.
You could build the (4 x 4)base with locked corners (plywood gussets) for rigidity and fasten the entire frame to the house's wall as opposed to the flat roof membrane.
Line the bottom of the wood base with foundation gasket to prevent any abrasion.
Gabe
nearly twenty years of dealing with EPDM on and off, and this is the fiorst time I have ever heard anyone claim an attribute of self healing for it!
If he does it this way, you can pretty well count on it leaking, especially since a railing is subject to lateral stresses, that will flex the joint there. I also tend to doubt that this would satisfay code requirements for 200lb lateral loading
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I would float the deck on the roof, maybe run some cross braces low so as to avoid any racking of the rail. That way you could circumvent the screws through the roof. Or just overbuild the rail enough so it won't move.
Dustin
I'm of the same mind as Gabe and Justin.
Build the three-sided railing, float it on the EPDM, and only attach it where the railing meets the house.
There are ways to go through the EPDM and then use other another type of membrane to flash the posts to the existing deck, but why mees with a water-tight roof, especially one that's flat?
Use the search button somewere on the forum. I think that Piffin did a pictorial of a porch roof with a deck above? a few years ago wasn't it Piff?
Thanks for all the help guys, I'm arguing for the fence to be attached to the house also. But, ultimately this isn't my decision to make....are there any caulks that would sufficiently seal the screw hole? or would those basically pull away and lead to leakage over the years?
...and if Piffin did a picture of this install before, I'd love to see it!Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
The uncured EPDM is flexible; you could use it to cover over the screw holes IF you can't talk your dad into a better way.
There is also a caulking-type product used to help seal seams in EPDM that you can get at the roofing supply house.
I've used 3M 5200 Marine sealant to seal posts to an EPDM-covered curb that an architect spec'd, but I wasn't happy about it.
Mike
...and if Piffin did a picture of this install before, I'd love to see it!
44677.4PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
it's a shame when the editor can't get the search function to work, LOL. betcha this thread doesn't make it to the BT page of the print version...;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Are those 2x4's? How are they attached to the roof? Looks like there's something in between the 2x4's and EPDM.
Details please.
jt8
It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. --Chinese proverb
try the search to see if it works looking under EPDM + decks and or ipe` There are other pictures and discussions on the subject.I use scrap of EPDM cut into strips for a wera strip so that the continual rubbing action from foot traffic does not weara into the EPDM and shorten its life. to place it, I use the EPDM caulk to put down dabs about every 16" and walk the strips into them. Then I seat the 2x4 PT sleepers in dabs of the same on the strips. That leaves some flex to the whole assembly while more or less securing it in place. Once the Ipe` is all screwed to it, the weight secures it, unless the roof rolls and then clips are good on the edge.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
are there any caulks that would sufficiently seal the screw hole?
Water cut off mastic or Waterblock or whatever brand name they have. Its a sticky gooey mastic that'l stick everywhere. Make sure it goes in bewteen the EPDM and the wood, right in the screw hole.
step one ... no, roof leaks don't "self heal" ...
step two ... stop trying to ban guys that may be able to answer your questions ...
step three ... consult a lawyer ...
step four ... lather/rince/repeat ...
Jeff
oh gawd that's rich.
...all I need is the air that I breathe...
Who did I try to ban?
Hey, what can I tell ya, I've got weaknesses just like the rest of you all, I've never worked with EPDM roofing before...not in my line of the biz at least.
Keep up the good posts, and update your profiles!Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
...and update your profiles!
True. At the least a general location in your profile eases the flow of communication on the board.
Is it really that big of a thing to do?
be in peace
...all I need is the air that I breathe...
Edited 5/15/2005 11:19 am ET by the razzman
"Keep up the good posts,"
wait ...
now I gotta post good stuff too!
next thing ... you'll be wanting me to have useful info as well ...
this is all getting to be too much ...
Jeff
Justin,
I think FHB did an article on this topic. Yes, yes they did. Take a look at issue #166. You can buy back issues on our website (hehehe).
Brian Pontolilo, associate editor