I was building my own siding but I am getting impatient and want to
finish shop construction this year. The building is to look like a
small barn so vertical siding is the most appropriate choice. I am
surprised that there is not much available here in Indiana. I have found one place that will supply 1x8 T&G or shiplap pine boards which are primed on all sides ready to be painted. The price sounds reasonable at $140/square. Some other lumberyards who have panel products are saying that pine will not last very long.
Can anyone tell me how long on average well maintained pine siding
lasts?
My 2nd option is to use the engineered panel siding by LP. I just do not like the looks of panels.
Thanks,
Imran
Replies
Lotta barns, houses, camps & outhouses have had pine siding on them a lot longer than panel products have even been in existence, and I'm in Maine. Just backprime, paint all cut ends & paint when Momma says its time and it will outlast you, and never delaminate. Go for it!
Thanks you all. I thought the same. However, since I could not readily find wood siding coupled with the comments made by some lumber yards made me ask the question to the collective. I also thought that the old buildings definetly were built with better quality wood than what we have now.
Imran
ps go for the shiplap
Pine will last a long time . The paint on it wont.
Tim Mooney
We farmed, our barn, tool shed, and utility shed were vertical pine sided with 1x10's and a batten to cover the seams. It was there before I was born to after I left, so it should last you longer than you'll want to maintain it. At that time, I believe they are still available, there was a milled faceted 1x2 batten used that added quite a bit to the overall look.
I agree with the other posters, pine will hold up well as siding. I would avoid paint however; as one poster stated it won't. Consider a stain instead of a paint.
Another consideration is your sheathing. Most sheathing used today does not breath very well. If I were installing any wood siding over plywood or OSB, I would consider furring out from the wall with 1/4" lath. This allows the back side of the wood to breathe and allows better ventilation for longer life. Back priming may help, but I would rather have the air space.
Another consideration is how you fasten your boards. Vertical boards need to have solid blocking to nail into unless you have at least 3/4" sheathing (another reason to use board sheathing.) No matter the width of your siding, two nails per nailing centers is all you want to use. More nails and you greatly increase the chance of splitting the siding. If you are not using a shiplap siding and use board and battens, consider using the batten first then the siding over the batts....it will help increase the longevity of the siding.
Thanks for the great tip on ventilation.
I was planning to install horizontal furring strips as you recommended but not for ventilation - did not think of it - but for nail holding power. My sheathing is 1/2" OSB and has been wraped with TYVEK. Some portions of it has been exposed to weather for 6 months others about 12 months. I also plan to use fanfold 1/4" insulation in between the furring strips. I have not checked but I think the insulation is ~ 3' wide. Is 3ft on center nailing appropriate? Plan to use galv spiral nails. Wonder if they make any for my framing nailer
Imran
Edited 3/29/2003 5:13:51 PM ET by IMRANINDIANA
I've got 2¢ for and 2¢ against it.
The old pine that has lasted for generations was definitely better wood than the plantaion grown now. A couple of years ago, I replaced a railing built of pine that was just a little under ten years old. The owners asked me to study it carefully to see if they had cause to complain to the previous contactor.
He had donew everything right. Air spaces to vent and breathe in the hollowed posts. All end grain sealed with paint. No fasteners exposed or facing up.
This was in a wet climate and right out in the open, but I was extremely suprised to see the advanced rot condition considering how well he appeared to have done his prep and installation. I could not recommend that they complain about him. The only poor thing was the choice of pine where I would have used red cedar but the railing he copied to replace was an eighty year old pine railing done the same way.
As long as you install this vertically with a roof overhang and away from ground contact, you should be OK. It wouldn't hurt to make it a rainscreen wall with furring behind to ventilat and promote even drying. Shiplap tends to trap water as does T&G. B&B less so.
A lot of the preprimed pine siding available is also fingerjointed. Some of the finger jhointed is very good and others are poorly done. I would suggesst that you look closely at the product and see if you can view any older insrtallations of the same product.
I wouldn't use ANYTHING made by LP. My experiences and everything I hear about them indicate that their legal defense dept. must be as lage as their sales staff. 'nuff said on that.
I am preparing now to use a B&B pine installation on a wet location pine camp to replace same that was installed about 25-30 years ago. It appears that it was sprayed with an oil stain oncce upon a time and ignored since then. The worst rot is where roof run-0off splashed back on it at porch and slab entry - no gutters.
So keep the rain off it [by design and paint maintainancce] and let it dry again and you should do fine!
BTW, enjoy your barn.
Excellence is its own reward!
A variation on this...
What about shingles, (for the wall), split from alder ?
Would paint on the backs and sides be preferable to just a stain ?
Quittin' Time
Not familiar with properties of Alder fore that. I understand it to be related to poplar which is a poor exterior wood in most places.
Alder shakes were installed in West Texas in the mid seventies on the supposition that the dry climate would accept them. I don't think many lasted. But I'm not there anymore..
Excellence is its own reward!
In the Sound basin I think alder would be a poor choice. Look at the bottom row on someone's alder firewood pile. Mine usually had a white spider-web looking fungi growing on it quickly. (I used to live on Vashon.)It doesn't matter how fast you get there, it just matters that you go in the right direction.
I think from what I've seen/heard that I would shy away from alder as an exterior wood, also.
Thanks all.
I have lots of alder on the property. I have heard that when left on the ground, they have the rot resistance of a banana. But I have had some down for four years. Directly on the ground, and they haven't rotted yet. The bark comes off those readily, but the logs themselves are still solid.
There are also more that were downed here for over ten years before I even arrived, (again, directly on the ground), and those that have rotted at all, haven't rotted much. (They were cut down by the power company to clear the power lines.)
Since I have so much that is readily available, I was hoping that a thorough 6 side painting or something of the sort would make enough of a difference to make it worth using.
It IS used for pallets, (Which have to survive rather adverse conditions for long enough to be financialy worth it.), and for furniture and trim. It must have some redeeming qualities.
Quittin' Time
Alder is a nice wood to work with, but I would try to keep it to interior use. If kept well oiled and allowed to dry out it would hold up for awhile outside, but I would not want to venture a time. I think if I were to use it outside for siding, I would definitely go for a vertical board with reverse batten...to allow as much ventilation and drying time as possible.
It's use for pallets is such that it can be relatively inexpensive in pallet lengths, and is considered a "weed" tree thus expendable. Many supplys shipped on pallets include the pallet as a cost of business and do not recycle or reuse them. Around here I get left over pallets and use them for fencing and firewood. Some are pretty nice hardwoods.walk good
A nearly new home we were in recently has alder cabinetry. Looks good.
Maybe it'd be alright, handled carefully as you mention.
I sure burned a lot of it when I lived on Vashon!
Ever try to do anything with madrona? Sure is good firewood.It doesn't matter how fast you get there, it just matters that you go in the right direction.
Cabinetry and trim is the best use I have heard it put to. As well as furniture.
The structures that I am considering wall shingling with it, are not permanent anyway. If I can figure out an economical way to turn this stuff into boards, I am thinking that I would probably go with horizontal shiplap on vertical lath. For maximum breathing. If it lasts well enough, I may pull it off later, when the structures come down, dry it, then surface it and use it for furniture construction, or cabinetry, or trim... whatever.
If I can't find an economical way to turn it into boards, I'll just split it, and do the best job I can with it, making sure there is as much breathing as possible behind it. Judging by the experience I have already had with it, I figure that if I split it, and shingle with it, with no treatment at all, there will be mold and such. But if I give it minimal treatment, (6 side stain and seal), then in about 5 or 6 years, the walls will be black, but solid and dry.
As firewood, if it's dry, it burns almost as well as construction scraps. If not, it is extremely hard to keep going, even with construction scraps to baby it along with.
I don't think I'd recognize madrona if I saw it.
Quittin' Time
Thanks for the detailed response. I have 2' overhangs and no ground contact so that should help. I personally do not like the board and batten look. Maybe I should look into placing a line of caulk, lot of work but maybe worth it.
I also stopped by the lumberyard and found that Cypress is not that much more. It is a lot better than pine for rot resistance. I will find out on Monday the actual difference in price.
Imran
No caulk. That is more likely to lock water in than to keep it out.
I've never used cypress siding but I've heard on this board that what is sold nowadays is very green and prone to warping and twisting as it dries so consider a higher waste factor but that aside, it is probably worth thinking about. ask if it is kiln dried or green..
Excellence is its own reward!
What species of pine are you considering?
Resin content greatly effects longevity. Some of the ponderosa pine we stocked and sold was about as long lasting as a styrofoam cooler in a bonfire.
You might check with a local mill to see what is also available.
..............Iron Helix
Good point. Traditionally in New England, eastern white pine was used for clapboards (beveled siding) and board sheathing. Sometimes eastern hemlock was used as board sheathing. Eastern hem is similar to doug fir. Both woods will hold up well if kept from being continually wet, ie. allowed to dry out.
Today, with the distribution of lumber from all over, we encounter a wider mix. Longleaf yellow pine, is a high resin wood. It holds up well to wear and tear and moisture, but can be more prone to splitting as the resin drys out. In the local yards around here, if you ask for pine boards, you will likely get a mix of woods, Spruce, pine (lodgepole and ponderosa) or a true fir like grand or sub-alpine.
If I were out east again, I would try to use white pine or hemlock and allow good ventilation.walk good
I am from vermont, and we often use rough cut pine average 5/8 thick for siding. It has the rustic look. Which is the theme of the family run business. It is also all around us. When we are clearing a wooded area with a lot of pine, it useually gets sawn into building material because it isn't the best for the stove. But very versitile for our building needs. Some is sawn into framing material. Most is sawn into siding. It's been used on our buildings for almost 20 years! and still going strong. we ether lap it horizontally. Or recently my dad was able to get his hands on some 1-1/2"x12"x22' rough cut boards at a good price. He used them vertically as board and baton on his 2 story camp. He was able to go from the bottom to the top with no lap between stories.
the places you might have rot trouble are close to the ground. Which probably goes without saying for almost any wood. So you should use some kind of sealer on the back and ends of the boards in those spots. Don't build right to the ground. You don't want to turn the wood into a wick or you will have big problems .
We usually use a sealer. On our own buildings my grandfather likes to use up all the old half used cans of oil stain. Usuly produseing brown or green or something beond discripton. Once its on the rough wood it looks fine for our own uses. For cliants ive used Thompsons deck sealer.
As long as you use care and dommon sence in instalation pine makes good sideling. Clapboards, Novilty, Shiplap, T&G, or in the rough.
Thanks for the information. From what I have so far gathered pine is fine if certain species are used. My local lumberyard cannot really guarantee a specific kind. I am looking into cypress and it appreas that I can afford it. Seems like a safe way to go.
Imran