I watched the rotozip tape at Home Depot the other day and it was very persuasive. The claim is that it does everything from cutting tile to grinding on steel. What’s the real deal?
Wealth is not created, it’s consolidated.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
This compact detatched accessory dwelling has an efficient layout with a vaulted ceiling that enhances the sense of space.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
Rotozip and other similar tools are good tools for specific uses. I mainly use one for drywall and cutting circles or other odd shapes out of cement board that my grinder can't do.
It is not a saw, if you try to cut wood with it you will be sorely disappointed, I don't know about tile. I can't remember exactly everything that the infomercial claims but it ain't all that if you know what I mean.
If you do not have all the tools the roto-zip claims to replace buy those first.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professional build the Titanic.
CAG,
Well said. I have an example of what you're saying. I fitted my Rotozip with a friction cutoff blade. The heat generated by cutting a piece of metal (not very big) conducted down the armature and distorted the PLASTIC finns on the cooling fan such that they rubbed the sides.
I fixed it and- I LIKE THE ROTOZIP!! It has it's place.
it does have a few special talents but the infomercials are ajoke.
broke my last jigsaw blade once cutting a hole for an electrical outlet in cabinet side,5/8 veneered particle board. Took three new rotary blades, lots of smoke, and in the time it took i could have gone to buy some jigsaw blades, but the customer wanted to try his new toy.
advantages?, good for really tight spots and thats about it, and no i didnt buy one
I have/had (currently out of commision) the dewalt version, it broke one to many times and the last time it took a nasty "accidental" fall out of a second story window to a driveway.
When I buy another it will not be the dewalt. I like it for drywall especially around door openings, and the 1/4 in carbide bit works well in cement board, but thats the only use I have found for it.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professional build the Titanic.
I posted my lengthy commentary before I read your DeWalt woes. Now I don't know what zip saw I will buy when (if?!) my Rotozip breaks again. Maybe another Rotozip, who knows...
I didn't comment on the grinder attachment because that's for sure one job it ain't gonna do nearly as well as a real grinder/cutoff tool.
As for Steve's complaint about using 3 bits to cut a small hole in 5/8" particle board, I'm always suspicious whether the user had the right bit in it. I've never had a problem doing some lengthy cuts in pine/plywood/particle board/OSB.
Regards,
Tim
For not too many more bucks, about $100, you can have the PC 7310 trim router. It will do all the (limited) things the Rotozip does, cut hinge mortises, it will even trim plastic laminate (imagine that!). Get the Rotozip 1/8" collet adapter and you can use the R-zip 1/8"bits.
Oh yeah, the PC doesn't have the grinder attachment, but let's face it , that thing's a total joke, POS.
Ken Hill
I second Ken Hill's comments. Rotozip sells an adapter that chucks into a 1/4" collet and takes 1/8" bits. With this, I cut out all the electrical fixture boxes in a remodel, using my Ryobi laminate trimmer. Laminate trimmers are very useful little routers, and can double in this capacity.
I've also heard of people who pick up a cheap Craftsman router at a garage sale and use it the same way.
Bosch calls it a die grinder. Mine has been doing the Roto Zip life for better than 15 years and still at it. 1/8", 1/4" and 3/16 shanks fit it.
Iuse mine for cutting access in a wall for plumbing repair, I have cut tile with it as well as hardibacker ( Inna pinch) but its a good tool for what it is. The only real drawback I see is dust, dust and more dust....plus those cheesey bits breaking all the time. I will have to try the PC ones..
Darkworks: Its all 'bout da squilla
Like CAG says, you need the other tools first. The one job where it is unmatched is doing drywall cutouts for electrical boxes. Careful of the wires, though, and know which way (clockwise or counter) to move the rotozip depending upon whether you're inside the box or outside. The Rotozip isn't as easy to control as the video would have you believe...that 5 amp motor is stronger than you.
Another use that I can't think of an equal tool is cutting a large hole or unusual shape in ceramic tile. I wouldn't use it to cut tile for any other reason, though; the carbide bits are expensive and don't last real long, especially if you push them too hard (voice of experience).
I've tried several different Dremel bits in my Rotozip and haven't found one yet that didn't suck, even the Dremel bits that are copies of Rotozip bits. Porter-Cable zip bits have been fine.
As CAG says, they are slow in cutting wood, but again, there's a specific job where it has no equal: cutting a wall/floor/subfloor when you don't know what's underneath/behind and you can't use a circular saw. You don't want to use a jigsaw or recip saw because you might hit a wire/water pipe on the stroke.
I put a router bit in mine and rout door hinge gains. No, I didn't bother to buy the expensive router attachment for it. Also, why buy the circle cutter? Just draw the darn circle and cut it out.
I've also used mine to remove grout, cut fiber cement siding, plaster (including the wire), cut laminate flooring (like holes for registers), and I've cut OSB, plywood, pine, cement board, etc., etc. Sometimes it's the only tool for the job, or so it seems. But their video is still pretty rosy.
I hadn't had much mileage on mine, but the bearings started to go on it (the plaster dust). It was out of the 1 year warranty period. I phone up Rotozip and even told them it was out of warranty. They sent me a pre-paid shipping container, I sent them my saw, and they sent me back a new Rotozip, all for free. Now, maybe they sent me a refurb, but it looked brand new. Impressive. Hopefully they've fixed the dust seals problem like they fixed the spindle lock button. The on/off switch is still flaky, they haven't fixed that problem yet (dust gets in).
Having said that, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the DeWalt zip saw if Rotozip doesn't want to send me another free saw when mine breaks again.
Regards,
Tim
I generally agree with what's been said. In practice, the RZ is best used for smaller or irregular cutouts. I've used it several times to trim out tile that was hanging out too far over an electrical box. Also, I cut a hole in tile for the installation of a new box. I recently used a sabre cutting bit to cut a large circle out of 1/4" plywood, then, had to use my belt sander to smooth out the edges. My favorite part is the ZipMate right angle attachment. I really like the metal cutting wheel, it's great for small cutting jobs on gutters or downspouts, bolt heads, fence pipes etc. Also, does plunge cuts, within reason.
Had two RZ's in my truck, both stolen, along with other tools. A new one was on the short list of things to replace, first.
Bob
I've never had any success cutting plaster with a Roto-Zip. What bit do you use?
I melted my bits on the plaster in my house. I only have a limited amount of drywall to work with anyway. I whole heartedly agree with others that one should get all of the proper tools first. Wish I'd bought the inline Makita cordless reciprocal saw instead. FWIW, Fry's has them for $70. Don't know if they come with a battery or charger, but they use the old style 9.6V battery.
An electrician that did some work for me used his with the grinder attachment and masonry blade to cut access for retrofitting cans and outlet boxes in my kitchen. He swore by the thing and it made nice clean cuts in my delicate old plaster walls and ceiling.
I've had my DeWalt cut out tool for a couple years now, and I use it all the time. With the right bit it does exactly what it says it will do. Dry wall is great once you get the right feel and set the bit deep enough that you are not trying to cut with the guide portion of the bit. And with the general purpose bit I've been able to cut wood and fiberglass with out difficulty. I've found that the carbide burr bits don't work very well.
But there is the switch issue. Mine cuts out too. I took the whole thing apart and cleaned it, figuring that there was just too much dust in there, but no dice. The switch still cuts out if I don't hold it open. I'm so used to it now that I don't even reailze it, but I wish they would fix this problem.
Justus Koshiol
Running Pug Construction
Justus, if you ask me on the switch issue the Rotozip has hit a grand slam. It is just in the right place IMO.
I think Dewalt could spend some ergonomic time wisely. This little DW plunge router I have never figured how to get ahold of. Handy, but awkward. Switch location too.
Justus, I don't seem to have the same switch problem on my DeWalt. Do you have the switch that, when you turn it on, sticks a knob out the end where you can turn it off in a hurry by tapping it? I do bump that and turn it off on occasion. Never had the switch fail me otherwise.
I think that the DeWalt is a good machine. It will break bits with the best of them.
That is the one, it has the bump off switch, it just won't stay on, I've pulled it apart and cleaned everything, but no dice. Still, I like the tool enough to use it all the time even with the defect. Justus Koshiol
Running Pug Construction
ipthe Plaster Bit?
Same deal for those having trouble cutting 5/8th cab ply...try the Wood Bit.
I've cut tons of drywall......lotsa junction boxes in cab stock...and a good bit of plaster.
I disagree with those saying just to get a smaller router. Even a lam trimmer is bigger. Last plaster ceileing I cut out for a patch had me up on a ladder....guiding the Zip with one hand and holding the Shop Vac nozzle with the other. Cut out big enough for a 4x8 sheet of drywall...thru 7/8th thich rocklath/plaster......took about 15 min and no dust.
Great little tool....use the right bits and don't push so hard...I hardly break any.
BTW.....it don't cut any but the thinnest/softest ceramic tile. The Tile Bit is useless.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
use the right bits and don't push so hard..
Yes Pushing too hard is a problem. I've busted a dozen or so.
don't cut any but the thinnest/softest ceramic tile. The Tile Bit is useless.
I have struggled with the 1/8 inch carbide bits and found them useful but slow. Water helps keep the temp down (they spray the tile bit when demonstrating )but they stillbreak quite a bit.
Have you ever tried the 1/4 inch carbide bit?
I ask cause I've got an arc that is 30 inches long by 5 inches deep at the deepest point that I need to cut in installed porcelain floor tile that is mounted in thinset on durock. I screwed up in a placement of a spiral staircase and now I've got to adapt.
Besides the diamond bit in a right angle grinder I don't have a clue on how to cut an arc that long. I was hoping the bigger rotozip bit would be the answer.
I guess I probably ought to go to using a router with that bit and make a curved template to follow the arc. Suggestions?Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
The 1/4" carbide bit. Twice the price of the 1/8" carbide, but lasts more than twice as long. Just don't push them too hard or any/every zip bit overheats. Also, vary where you're cutting with the bit every so often, make sure you use as much of the carbide as you can before it breaks.
There's also a 1/4" bit for doing door and window drywall cutouts.
I just did a retrofit of a shower valve - big hole cutout through four 6"x8" tiles, plus I removed a lot of grout from between other tiles. Could have done it all with one 1/8" carbide bit, but pushed too hard at one point. Oh well, the second 1/8" bit still has some life left in it for the next time.
I overheated a bit on some pine trim today, but noticed it and stopped before it snapped (always a bad sign when the bit glows orange). Moved the bit so that I was using another part of it...still good. But bits are like baseball bats: seems like only about 7 of 10 are any good, the other 3 are eager to break.
And yeah, I've thought about a small laminate trimmer, but they're bigger, more expensive, and I don't know if their bearings handle drywall dust any better than a zip saw.
I like Jeff's description of his contortion act...seems familiar to me. In fact, I was recently thinking of starting a thread along the lines of how colleges that teach trades should include a mandatory course on stretching/contortionism.
Regards,
Tim
Trimbutcher:
About the 'Rotozip'--for a while, I kept telling myself that the next time I had a big gyprock job to do, I'd buy one. But then I visited a buddy's site and saw the messy holes it made.
I use a knife and straight-edge to cut box holes, a fine-tooth hole-saw to cut round holes, and a knife and patience to cut curves. Yeah, maybe it takes me 60 seconds to cut out a Gem-box hole and it takes the 'zip tool about 10--but five years after I've left the jobsite, the homeowner will repaint her gyprock and pull all the switch plates in the process. Do I want her to see all those fuzzy-looking cutouts? No way.
When I first learned to work with drywall, we used blue nails and Spackle. My dad taught me to make the last blow with the hammer perfect so it sunk down the gypsum without breaking the paper. I don't think I'd go back to nails today (if I could find them!!), and pre-mixed joint-compound saves a lot of trouble and wasted material. But the little bit of extra time it takes me to pre-cut my holes neatly before hanging the wallboard doesn't cost me or my customer anything worth mentioning, and the neatness of the finished job speaks volumes about pride in workmanship.
I guess that's why they call me 'Dinosaur'.
About the only thing I use my dremel for is coping molding..works pretty good for that
Darkworks: Its all 'bout da squilla
Got the DeWalt version for free. (Merry X-mas, Thanks, Mom & Dad) I don't think I would have bought it for myself. That said, it has come in handy more than few times. Did a kitchen sink cutout a few weeks ago when my jig saw went missing. As things were it was that or the Sawzall.
Tends to get away from you until you're used to using it. The ON/OFF switch on mine has a mind of it own at times. Its more like an "I'm tired and need stop" switch. Probably faulty or maybe just "DeWalty". Who knows.
Like TRIMBUTCHER, I think it's great for cutting drywall around electric boxes and such. I wouldn't wanna hang drywall without one.
I tried using one to cut a hole in some 1/2" plywood for a vent, and it worked O.K. Broke one bit after a short time though.
I think I'll stick to drywall with mine.......
All animals, except man, know that the principal business of life is to enjoy it. [Samuel Butler]
The electric ones are good for drywall. Tried the cordeless ones twice and they both burned out in 2 weeks as was looking for a reliable RotoZip without the cords. Soemeone should make a sturdy and relibale cordless - big market for it.
Women buy 47% of the RotoZips for birthdays, Christmas, etc. The inventor was a rocker right out of high school and he had a tough time using the saw to cut boxes..and the rest is history!
I love my rotozip, its great on drywall and and thin plywood like eaves. but it hates sheetmetal. Just the bit break button sucks.
Cordless Rotozip. I just sprung for the Senco Durospin 14v screwgun. As a promotion, they included a 14v rotary saw that uses the same battery as the gun. It comes with a 1/4 and 1/8 inch collets. Has power to spare. Only downside is the weight; 14v battery adds a lot. But the thing is solid, sturdy. I like to just hold it and turn it on, feel the power and vibration.
I only do DW for remodeling jobs (usually bathrooms) but I think I'm gonna love this tool.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Will try the Senco the next time! A cordless cut-out tool sure beats dragging those cords around when drywalling. Anyone ever try a Dremel? They are slim and light and powerfull, ever try a cord and cordless ones?
I've never used a dremel, but my son has/had a cordless variety. He uses it to build rockets (the 3 foot and under variety.) He uses/used it almost everyday, mainly to shape cardboard tubes and balsa fins, really drains the thing to almost dead before charging it; you know how kids can be.
Anyway, the other day he hands me the battery to his dremel. Seems several of the contacts bent and melted the reinforcing plastic. The thing is toast. As far as using it for DW hanging, it seems a little lightweight; I'm not sure it would stand the abuse that you might give it (that for sure I would give it.)
The Senco, though, is a huge steak in the butcher shop of rotary saws. Give it a spin, just make sure your biceps are in tone.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
"Anyone ever try a Dremel? They are slim and light and powerfull, ever try a cord and cordless ones?"
We have a "Dremel like" tool at work. (I'll try to post a pic in a few days after I go back to work) that absolutely blows the doors off a Dremel in terms of speed, power and performance. It has some built in electronics that make it maintain a constant RPM no matter what the load (unless you trip the built-in circuit breaker), just set the speed control (you can vary the RPM from ~100-20,000) and have at it. Half the size of a Dremel and easily 4 times the power, and it's revesable. Neat release for the collet too. Just twist a lever on the body of the tool and the bit pops out.
Jon
WorkshopJon,
I'll be checking back for that one. I wouldn't want to leave home without the Dremel for all around problem solving (old, with cord).
I don't use it for cutout, however. Dremel is a great company. One time I had a cut out problem with a old one, ended up sending it in. They promptly sent me a brand new one-no charge.
Fonz
Fonzie
Wasn't trying to put down a Dremel. I have one myself for home projects. For certain things, it does come in handy. But it really is a relatively light duty, DIY grade tool not designed for day in day out use. I think I return to work on Wednesday, so if I remember, I'll post a pic of that tool then.
One of the neat things about what I do for a living (industrial prototyping), I'm exposed to, and have experience working with a wider range of tools and materials than 99.9% of the people in many other trades, and often get to work with, and on, all sorts of really interesting stuff.
Going off on a tangent here, but I often get the impression that some on this forum think that some of my comments are often a little "outside the box," and that is probably true.
Home building/Reno. is just a hobby. But how many have helped to build nuclear fusion reactors (not fission) or have had things that they have helped to build go into orbit? The underlying theory and principles are all the same.
Jon
Used a cordless VS Dremel to fine tune coped base and crown joints a while back. It worked really well. Kind of surpised me. It was nice having the variable speed control. The Dremel belonged to my partner at the time. Have thought about getting one for myself from time to time.
Rugby, one of the handiest things you can put in the Dremel for problem solving is a 409 (or better yet IMO the heavy duty) cutting disc. This is a approx 1 inch diameter disk that will cut tool steel.
Just a few examples of the uses: slot a screw for removal/ sharpen small bits/ sharpen nail slot in flat bar and cat's paw/ rivet removal in light fixture sockets/ name on tools
I actually first had a Dremel back in the late 1970's or thereabouts. My parent's owned a hardware store and they carried the Dremel tools and accessories. I loved the display case with what seemed like hundreds of the different tool bits. Of course I wanted them all. I know I still have an old corded model somewhere but seem to remember the collet nut was cammed out pretty bad.
I think the Dremel is a nice tool for alot of things (such as you posted) especially those tasks where bigger tools are just overkill or too cumbersome. Probably will get a cordless model someday.
Those cutting disks are about the only use I get out of the Dremel. Add to your list cutting off the excess holddown bolt when installing a toilet as well as cutting off the holddown bolt when removing an old toilet.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
They work good for that. I think my cutting disk gets more use then any other attatchment on the dremel, though some of the others are handy to. Have used it a lot to cut a flathead screwdriver slot in stripped screws, or carriage bolts that just spin so I can get them loose. If that fails, cut the nut, or bolt, in two.
I even used it to cut off toliet bolts. But, the first one fell and melted into the linoleum leaving some pretty black stripes. OPPS. Fortunately where it's not usually visible. The second one I didn't cut quite all the way through and finished by bending it back and forth.
Fonzie,
Finally remembered to take the camera to work. Here are the pics of the tool that blows the doors off a Dremel. Construction of the tool is all metal. It will maintain a constant RPM (~100 to ~35,000) no matter what the load, and doesn't need a chuck key. BTW, on the downside, new it costs close to $1K.
One more pic,
man that's cool. rg
Look at the Sears rotary die grinder. it is a dead nut ringer for yours except the housing is made of plastic where the motor resides. The handle shaft is made of cast metal. I got mine a decade ago and it still works fine. 1/4 inch shaft with a 1/8 inch collet and a host of burrs and grind stones all for 50 bucks.
Upon further review, Sears seems to have gone the way of the dremel. Mine is a different animal than anything I find on their website now. I'll sell it for 500...;-)
Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
Edited 5/22/2003 10:52:43 PM ET by Booch
Booch,
Can you post a pic. I'm curious. Wouldn't mind something similar at home, but not for $900.00+. I know the Electer has a bunch of built-in electronics to maintain constant speed. Any idea what yours cost new?
jon
Couldn't have been over 40 bucks. Frighteningly powerful. Makes the rotozip look like a battery operated drill.
I use it for carving with burrs freeform in wood. Works real well until I get it in a hole that is about 2" in dia. The last time I did that I must not have been paying attention cause the next thing I knew it was dancing in the hole (fast). By the time I got it out the thing had a big vibration (30 LB Coho like) then the next thing I heard was bing, pow, zing, thunk. The bit I was using had snapped at the shank. Right where the bit had been stamped with W. Germany. The sound effects were the ceiling, a light, the tablesaw, and a pile of wood. 25000 rpm off center is a fast piece of metal.
I'll take a photo and get it to you.Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
Mostly a great usable tool,
Rotozip is a great tool for drywall cutting. after you get the feel for the bit it runs like a champ. Cutting wall tile with the carbide bit is fine as well. It likes a loose tile better than one thinset in place. (found out as I was cutting in towel bar mounts after the fact.)
A couple of thoughts.
1. Buy bits in the 10 pack. that includes specifically the carbide 1/8 inch dia size. They snap rather frequently unless you have a light touch on the driving force.
2. Be conscious of heat in the tool. It is a plastic thing with poopy ventilation characteristics. I've taken mine apart 3 times in the building of 1 house. Particularly when cutting recessed lights in the ceiling, the dust gets in and bollixes up the bearing surfaces and even collects in the air gaps near the windings.
3. Floor tile porcelain type are not a good application for this tool. Not enough tooth, power, nor cooling for the job. Get a diamond blade saw and have at it instead of the rotozip.
Finally if there was a better one I'd prefer it to the rotozip but I can't speak for dewalt PC or any other brand.
I have a 1/4 inch die grinder that could be used in this type application. But w/o a plate for keeping at the surface I can't see where it would have advantage over the rotozip.
Forget the Zip. Get you a PC laminate trimmer and the 1/8" adapter to use the Zip bits.
a rotozip story....
last weekend I decided to finally put up the ceiling fan we've had sitting in the box for about a year or so now....
in our bedroom.....don't even need a ladder....just stand on the bed.
already had the plastic rosette to match the installation in the kid's room where I had to bust out some plaster for a flush install........wife liked the look...so this time it was planned....
so...I remove the old ceiling light...to find a wire just poking thru the plaster.
No junction box. Which wasn't really a big surprise for this old house......so I figured I just had to cut the wood lath and install the hanger bar/box I had sitting in the basement somewhere...
Then I realised I left all my saws at the job site.....circular saw/saw zaw/jig saw...all my hand saws...... Van was pretty much empty.
Then...I remembered my rotozip. Hadn't unpacked that yet.
So...with two highly specialized plaster removal tools....a hammer for the plaster and the rotozip for the lath...I smashed then cut a hole big enough to fit my hand with the hanger bar and got things rolling.
Just chucked in the right bit..a wood bit..and zipped right thru the wood. In the end...the plaster around the old light was pretty thin..and loose...so the zip was probably the best tool for the job. No vibration. Rest of the ceiling stayed up.....trim ring helped pull things tight too.
So...the zip saved my day...plaster was so thin I coulda just zipped thru all in one pass....but the old hammer trick was plenty fast..and the ragged results got covered up anyway.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I tried it on glazed floor tile----A disaster!