I’m purposfully posting this here instead of Knots because my needs are not those of a serious woodworker at this time. I’ve got some flat closet doors to make from 3/4′ stock, a simple but large dining table, and various other hackmiester projects; so I’d like your opinion on the Delta JT160. Picture attached.
It definitely has the look (and price) of a light duty tool. Will it do a good job of preparing short lengths (less than 4′) of 3/4″ stock for edge gluing? How about ten foot lengths of 2″ thick VG fir for edge gluing? I can’t imagine correcting 10′ length with a machine 30″ long, but maybe I’m wrong.
Thanks,
Scott.
Edited 11/14/2005 12:43 am ET by Scott
Replies
10' lengths? Wouldn't try it. You'll need something heavier. For your closet doors, it might be fine. For your fir, even the next size up will be a pain.
If I were you, I would do the long lengths at a cabinet shop or school shop with a real nice machine. (You can often rent time on a machine)
It really depends on your needs. It will probably suit your projects; A large jointer might just collect dust. If you really only have a small amount to do, you could find a local shop.
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People are entitled to their own opinions; People are not entitled to their own truth.
Jacob
No. It won't meet your needs. Too small, in/out tables too short. Not worth owning.
If you were to ask this over at Knots you would get some people giving out the advice I'll give here.
Buy a good hand plane. Get one that is a jointer length. Get or make a bench that will be able to support your work for edge-jointing.
For what that little jointer might cost, you can probably pick up a plane, sharpening gear, maybe a side fence for the plane to help you keep it 90 to the face, and nice boxes for all your stuff.
Here is what Lee Valley has for about $225:
View Image
But if you still need to go the jointer route, you'll want a longbed 6-incher for what you intend to do. Go online and look at Woodworker's Supply Woodtek brand.
Edited 11/14/2005 1:11 am ET by Stinger
Thanks to both.
Stinger, I'm in Canada and a great LV fan, but am a bit intimidated by the prospect of a 'manual' jointer plane, especially for 10' lengths. Is there much sophistication to trueing edges with a hand jointer plane?
As for costs, I already own most hand plane sharpening supplies; but I'm completely lacking in experience with large hand planes.
Advice appreciated.
Scott.
PS...As an aside, I've got an important reason to try a hand tool solution. I've had a lifelong aversion to power jointers since when, at age 15, I witnessed a friend take an entire hand off up to the second knuckle by pushing it into a school shop jointer. It's a very unpleasant memory that I'll never forget. I often wonder about him.....
Much sophistication? No. And you will really enjoy learning and perfecting your edge-jointing skills with a hand plane.
You'll do as good or better a job of it, too. Unless you are prepared to get a pro-grade 6" jointer, or an 8-incher, you won't be able to get the edges you need for good glueups. But a hand-jointer can do it readily.
I've had the earlier version of that jointer for several years, and use the heck out of it. The max practical working length is probably about 4', which is what you mentioned. Doing 3 or less pieces is pretty easy.The portability is great. Lots of people have borrowed mine. (It's going down to Mississippi with me.)For the money, I think it's a good tool.
Any society which does not promote and support its best natural leaders punishes itself and weakens its probabilities of survival and progress. [Prof. Michael Novak]
I had a customer in our store just last week complaining and kicking himself for buying that Delta toy.
He came in to buy a real 6 incher. lol
Darcy
Off topic and because I cant find where it was that I saw your post on this but; You mentioned, or at least I think I saw where you posted it, that the hitachi scms will not do a 45 left with the table at 45 either left or right.
If I'm missquoting you please correct me. I'm trying to figure this out because I'm looking at one of the hitachi or Makita saws and thats sticking in the back of my mind as I try to decide.
Thanks
Doug
Yep.Doug, it was in the Too Hip thread.On that Hitachi, if you bevel left 45 degrees, the farthest you can miter right is about 32 degrees. There is a point on the fence that gets in the way.I keep forgetting to take my camera to work...lol.
Darcy
Tell me which Hitachi SCMS will not do that. I'm doing some work for a guy that has a duel bevel and today I tried the 45°bevel 45° tilt and I was able to do it!
Why is that? or is this a problem with one specific model?
Doug
Doug, if yer looking at new....man..get the Bosch. Nuff said? Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
HOW ABOUT THAT REZ GUY? UH HUH? ...He ain't Silesien I bet....wimp
I'm just not sold on the Bosch.
Thinking about the Makita or Hitachi.
To tell you the truth I've never ran the Bosch and I never see any of em down here in Austin so doubtful that I'll get the chance.
I've ran the hell out of the hitachi and like it.
Doug
Hey Doug,It's the brand new Hitachi that just came out, Moldel #C12LSH, I think.http://www.hitachi-koki.com/powertools/products/cutter/c12lsh/c12lsh.htmlHere's a picture:
OK, I wouldnt own that funny looking thing anyhow!
I'm afraid people would make fun of me!
Doug
Good lord ! That thing looks like the head of some x-files alien invasion force or something !
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
yeah, power tools for kids,lol
I kinda like it . Looks like it can fly.
How much is it ?
Tim
$600+
Have you tried removing the part of the fence that gets in the way with the miter/bevel set up? It must certainly have some adjustment which allows those cuts.
The fence is hinged, but that point is still in the way no mater what.Bad design.
Darcy
That experiment that I did with the 12" SCMS would not allow me to make the 45/45 until I adjusted that slide mechanism behind the blade(sorry don't know what its called), but once I adjusted it back all the way I could make the cut. Would that help in this situation with that new saw. Just curious.
Doesn't matter cause I'm still not going to buy one of those. It looks awkward and I load and unload my to much for that.
Doug
Dear DougU,Ya gotta just put your actual hands on that saw and see if it will do it. Because, four of us (carpenter and woodworker backgrounds) could not make that saw work properly.I still say, very bad design......and ugly to boot, lol. ...too groovy for me and most pro people.but heck, what do I know? I only sell to pros and I listen to what they say. (And I take notes!) lolRespectfully,
darcy
This is MY carpenters jointer...
half a solid core door
3- 4 foot pieces of aluminum channel
some clamps and a rooter
cleans up cut edges in one pass
does rough sawn in 3 or 4 passes
will put a laser straight edge on anything with no sawmarks
Mr. T. MOTOL
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq. Why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, it's worked for over 200 years, and we're not using it anymore."-- George Carlin
"I think natural selection must have greatly rewarded the ability to reassure oneself in a crisis with complete bull$hit."
I'm Swiss!
Very ingenious, and cheap. (Cheap is good in my case). Thanks for the pics.
What kind of router bit is that? I assume it does a better job than your typical double-flute.
Scott.
Onsrud HSS spiral.
I am going to get a CMT 3/4" spiral next time I get to Woodcraft.
Mr. T. MOTOL
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq. Why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, it's worked for over 200 years, and we're not using it anymore."-- George Carlin
"I think natural selection must have greatly rewarded the ability to reassure oneself in a crisis with complete bull$hit."
I'm Swiss!
Im sitting here kinda shaking my head at this post and have waited for more information. For me none has came. So here goes;
It depends on what you are doing doesnt it ?
The author of the thread did mentioned straightening 10 foot stock which would be a wrong move to buy this joiner alone. But for an edge planner its not. That packs a lot of difference. Even so, if the stock such as a 10 ft board were straight ripped first the joiner would edge it . Often I do the same using a hand electric planner after straight ripping with the dewalt with side bevel guard which is all portable which is also where most of us live.
Boss mentioned bringing such a unit for the jamb extentions of 1 inch for the doors in Ms. It would take some time to set up a router to do that for 7 or 8 doors unless it was ran through a table mounted one but still a table saw would be needed to rip them. With a joiner and a table saw in tandem its a pretty easy process . Every edge that the table saw makes the joiner edges it quickly. On the one inch pieces that are left with a cut edge what better tool that a joiner or a table top belt sander? If the sander was used it would not make the glue joint where the joiner would be true.
I think its a mistake to disqualifyu the tool as useless but very effective doing windows and doors which are all under 7 feet. Its too east to straighten with a skill saw and edge piece to have to think about hauling a long bed joiner to every job and lifting it . They have to be hauled up right too . I think they are more a shop item and thats not where we live. We are normally faced with a problems on the job and solving them there and moving to the next one so I think it depends. If we were making cabinets or stairs in a shop then a long bed joiner would be choice equipment and well worth it. Not for windows and doors alone portable .
JMO
Tim
I was the one that suggested the hand plane, and that the little jointer won't satisfy needs.
The thread author wants to do some other things down the road, including "a simple but large dining table."
That to me means a large hardwood glue-up, six to maybe even eight feet board lengths. The little jointer simply won't do.
I made the mistake long ago of buying a little 4-inch jointer, and found out how inadequate it was when my projects got bigger in scale. Mine is a longbed 6-inch Woodtek now, and I would like to get the spiral cutterhead with segmented inserts for it. It has straight knives now.
There is a pretty cool technique you can use to edgejoint boards for a glue-up, using a router and a straightedge. Boards are jig-fixed so that their mating edges are 5/8 apart, the straightedge is fixed to guide the router with a 3/4 straight bit right down the line, while cutting a sixteenth from each edge. Doesn't matter if your straightedge has a little wobble, the two edges are pattern-cut together.
You can even edgejoint boards so that the joint is curved or has a gentle S-sweep using this technique. Make your guideboard with the sweep curve you like, fair it smooth, use it to trace lines on the boards to be joined, jigsaw or bandsaw to rough out, set up and rout, and those boards will go together nicely.
I am envisioning that dining table right now, wider at its center, its top edges having a slight curvature so that ends are maybe 2 or 3 inches narrower. The glued up boards have joints that mimic the shape.
Very imformative post and you are right which I hesitated to post for that reason. You and the author do seem to be talking about shop work and not portable job site stuff. For job site windows and doors running edges the little joiner would seem enough and I just wanted to make mention that it doesnt seem as useless as some are suggesting . I have a shop joiner too although its not a long bed joiner which I could not justify.
The router was very good information to me as it had never been explained to me before . Thank you.
Tim
What you said was more or less what I use it for. For stuff like jamb extensions, they're obviously not always exactly the same width for the whole length. You often need to skim off a sliver from 1/8" down to nothing. That's not hard to do on this small portable jointer. Space is also a consideration. Not all of us have big enough shops for a long bed jointer. Not to mention the bucks to buy something you'll only use once a year.
Skill to do comes of doing. [Ralph Waldo Emerson]
here here Tim,
I used that jointer for edge joining for quite a while. On longer boards 6-10ft I would infeed and outfeed rollers to help me control the boards b/c pof the short table length of that jointer.
after all in edge jointing all you need is a blade a fence and the ability to support the board while jointing.
I usually by my lumber s2s with on egde ripped anyway.
I have since bought a larger stationary jointer but with the right set up the bench top worked fine.
a router and straightedge will work better than a small jointer
if the s-edge is true and your stock is surfaced the combo is hard to beat
d-handles or offset base are nice here but not necessary
Hmmmm, now that has some appeal. Do you know of a source for a good 10' straightedge and a 2" deep bit? I've got the 3hp router.
Scott.
Yes. A piece of masonite lap siding. They are 16ft long.
Tim
I use a 1 x4 magnesium screed and when used with Corian, a substance with no fudge factor, the joint just clicks together.
I got mine years ago at a masonry supply. Demand a stiff straightedge because a router pushes against the edge which is more critical than a saw which pushes along the length of the edge.
Any premium 1/2" X 2" bit, Amana, Freud, etc. would work.
That EZ Edge above is very impressive.
I use the screed to true walls, lay floor tiles against, top with a level to become a 10' level, etc. Or, http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=41707&cat=1,240,45313&ap=1
Edited 11/15/2005 11:26 am ET by cynwyd
Edited 11/15/2005 11:44 am ET by cynwyd
Thanks for the tip. I too thought of the Lee Valley guide, but it's only 8'. The screed idea sounds great.... stiff, light and cheap. (Oooo... sounds like a sex trade ad. LOL)
I did a quick google and found a 12 footer for $143.00.
http://www.capcityequipment.com/cplacement2705.html
I'll drop in at a local masonary supply sometime.
Scott.
Edited 11/15/2005 4:47 pm ET by Scott
Before you drop $143 on a straight edge, have a look at:
http://eurekazone.com/gallery/the-ez-smart-edge-jointer
It looks to be far more versatile and sophisticated, and for not much more money.
-- J.S.
I have an older version of that jointer, too. I got it for doing a house full of tapered window jamb extensions. Good thing it was for tapered, and paint grade<G>It is great for cleaning up saw blade marks quickly and amazingly smoothly. It is best for short pieces, but I have gotten some 8' pieces through successfully.Downside is, it's a Delta benchtop tool. Bearings in mine went out just before it was a year old, Woodworker's Supply replaced it. Went to change the knives, can't get one screw loose. A chunk of wood is jammed under the blade holder like a wooden lockwasher...thing's been sitting in my basement for at least 3 years...glad it paid for itself on that first job<G> What in the gosh darn golly have you done to Rez?
Do much biz with Woodworker's Supply? John Wirth is my cousin. Saw him last month at a family gathering.
Yeah, unfortunately for me, they're about 20 min up the road...instant gratification<G> What in the gosh darn golly have you done to Rez?
Isn't this really a palmgren jointer badged as a delta? Sears sells it too. The specs on it are pretty impressive, especially the dust collection design feature.
Also if the jointer needs to travel to the job site, the big iron option is moot.
http://www.palmgren.com
http://www.palmgren.com/p-wp-jointers.html
Any other feedback on this machine or its variants?
Regards,
Ken
"Do as you would be done by." C.S. Lewis
a 2" screed can be a complication cutting with a circular saw and having the saw housing bottom out against the straightedge
look at a 1 x 4
The ez guide looks sweet
>>>a 2" screed can be a complication cutting with a circular saw and having the saw housing bottom out against the straightedge
Yes, I know what you mean, but I'll be using a router which has no such problem. I think your idea is the best fit for my situation (unless the E-Z solution becomes more price attrative). I'll let you know how it goes.
Much thanks for your advice.
Scott.
Try the Dead Wood Concept .
http://eurekazone.com/gallery/the-ez-smart-edge-jointer
View Image
david.
What do you mean your posting over here because your not a serious woodworker!
What do you think we are over here, bunch of hacks?
Anyway, if all your doing is small stuff the tool will work for you but if your going to do bigger, heavier stuff don't waste your money, to many other options, some of which have been covered already.
Doug
Hahahahaha.
No, it's more like I'm the hack. I've got a single job at hand... building a 10' table, and don't see a long term need for a $1,000 jointer. I figure most people in Knots wouldn't 'approve' of the el-cheapo Delta.
Scott.
I am gonna take a shot and say ...sure.
The only advantage of a hand held plane..ele or people powered..is that you can hit the ends easily to get it straight before the final smoothing pass..
I'd snap a line, rip off the offrending edges, and set up an out feed support DEAD EVEN with the outfeed from the Delta..happy jointing..it is doable. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
HOW ABOUT THAT REZ GUY? UH HUH? ...He ain't Silesien I bet....wimp
I've got a single job at hand... building a 10' table, and don't see a long term need for a $1,000 jointer. I figure most people in Knots wouldn't 'approve' of the el-cheapo Delta.
Scott.
If thats the case for a single job why not just forget the jointer and buy your wood s4s or go to a cabinet shop/ college or high school wood shop and use their equipment or pay a student a few bucks to joint it for ya.
If you dont need the tool then why buy it.
>>>If you dont need the tool then why buy it.
Yes, I agree, although the solution posted by MisterT looks pretty sweet and will cost very little. I've already got the table and router, and some extruded aluminum channel is easy to get. An 8' long jointer would come in handy from time to time.
Scott.
Scott,
With Mr. T set up try something really cool. If you ever need to do a large 45 degree cut such as bar top or wood counter top rough cut in the 45 and then clamp the two pieces half inch or so apart. Clamp your straight edge at 45 and zip down the middle of your rough cut 45. Bingo perfect 45 No gap
Well , Ive been looking for a deal on a used small joiner like that not that I need it much but Ive had my eye on them. I certainly cant see where they are useless at all.
I to have a shop joiner but dont haul it so that elimiates it for on the job uses. As you say I can go to the shop to use it at lunch or at night . But thats not good enough. <G>
I have an electric plane Ive been known to clamp upside down and I run it by hand too. It has its portable uses but its not that small joiner either .
I actualy got runined using one on a big commercial job when a carp brought one on site. We both used each others stuff. He had a small table that was light it sat on and we just hauled it around right up to our work normally or at least in the same room. We both moved all our stuff with dollies that didnt have wheels . We were working a nursing home 600 feet long in 4 wings that distance . So we kept mobile other then the big equipment room we had in the dinning hall.
That small joiner was just the ticket to keep scooting down the rooms and a small table saw and trim saw. It wasnt used to straighten anything other than saw marks and we too had roller stands but wasnt necesary trimming vanities , open closets, windows , and a mold piece we used for the vanity. We didnt do doors that pass as they were done in the dinning hall.
When we left he put in one of those back plastic bin tool boxes along with a lot of other stuff or after week ends we drew it out of the job box it was so small. So someone beat that with a big joiner is the way I value it .
Ive always felt it wasnt needed enough I guess or I would have purchased a new one . Go figgure.Im so frugal sometimes Im a bore to my self. At any rate I value it as a great "additional joiner " to be included with a shop joiner and an electric plane. I think all three are needed for a lot of us but not all. That little joiner shines skimming edges for window trim and all short pieces .
Tim