Found these two jewels while I was doing some work in the attic. The house is only 3-4 years old.
First pic is one oView Imagef several floor trusses notched to allow the romex to pass over. The wire was held in place with a bent over nail. This was original constrruction. At least they tried to make room for the wire … there are several other polaces where trhey just laid the plywood on top of the wore with no clearance gap.
The other pic is a new a/c duct hanging from a piece of romex. This was done about 3 mos ago by an a/c installer who rubbed me the wrong way. He had an attitude that whatever he did was ok, and there was no reason to spend any more time than necesary to get the job done. He had to come back three times to get the unit runnung properly.
I’m sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Edited 4/19/2005 3:22 pm ET by Ed Hilton
Edited 4/19/2005 3:23 pm ET by Ed Hilton
Replies
Well, the poor notching for the romex is a little scary...but the hvac hanging from romex?? yikes!
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
but the hvac hanging from romex??
I thought that there was some rule that all duct-folk attempt to energize their ducts whenever possible . . .
Perhaps he jsut felt the romex was lonely and needed the support of a nice duct.
Edit: Notched the trusses? Ok, I'm no genie on NEC, but if the cable is properly supported, doesn't that obviate notches? (I'm thinking that any "flush" cable has to have a protective nail plate, but I could be remembering one too many punch lists or red tags in one too many jurisdictions . . . )
Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Edited 4/19/2005 4:59 pm ET by CapnMac
but if the cable is properly supported, doesn't that obviate notches I don't follow you on that. There were notches gouged in the top flange of the trusses with a hammer claw, and the cable laid therin. The cable should have been routed through holes drilled in the webs.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
The cable should have been routed through holes drilled in the webs
That's what's bugging my memory. Either the cable goes through holes, which are properly protected, or it has to have proper support is what I'm remembering.
So, I'm coming up empty for reasons why even a hack would do the gouge and nail thing. Especially when the OP included that some cables were not "flushed" out. The "mix" of hack thinking, I guess, is what is comfabulating me.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
For an attic they can go directly across the top unless they are so close to the hatch that someone might step on them.
I think you're right about laying romex directly on top of the joists, but you also have to provide access to the cold water heater and the hvac unit, so they layed plywood on top of the cables to provide a walkway.
FWIW the builder went bankrupt shoprtly after the house was completed. Surely he knew it was coming, so lots of things are not quite right.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
I don't want to turn this into dumpin' on the dumbazz HVAC guys, but I once saw one install an attic stairway by cutting out two brand new ceiling joists and setting the stair perpendicular to the joists, with NO headers along the sides, rather than run it lengthwise between two existing joists. Needless to say, I was very upset when I returned to the job to find such a hack job. Unfortunately, it was the HO who suffered, as he had to pay me to do it right.
There were notches gouged in the top flange of the trusses with a hammer claw, and the cable laid therin. The cable should have been routed through holes drilled in the webs.
Yeah but his drill was down in the truck, while the hammer was on his belt ;)
The duct reminds me of when I went to visit a friend and his DW had hung a bunch of clothes (on metal hangers) from NM in the basement. It had been stapled up under the joists, but the hanging clothes had streched it so that it bowed down 2-3" in between the joists.
If she'd been down there, I was going to ask her if she knew what her 'clothes line' REAL function was.
jt8
Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow. -- Mark Twain
Good thing he didn't drill a hole in the web with his hammer...; )
A person with no sense of humor about themselves, has no sense at all.
I think if the cable is exposed (ie not covered by wallboard or something) it is ok. The idea is to not run a nail or screw blindly into the romex. If you can see the romex, presumably you are smart enough to not put a nail in it.
I'm not so sure about notching the plate however. And the duct is a no-no.
I surely hope that wsn't done by a "real" electrician...and was a DIY ignoramus.
Either way tho'..it's horrendous.
The HVAC guy musta had a bad attitude...or was on drugs.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" Do not add to the world's confusion, by speaking in unclear terms"
Brownie, do us a favor..reply to the poster by hitting "others" and choose the person who you intend to respond to..responding to the last post without thinking , makes you look like an idiot.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" Do not add to the world's confusion, by speaking in unclear terms"
that time of the month again sphere?
You sure see a lot of disrespect for electricity out there (we've all seen a lot worse) - that first picture reminds me of a little box of metal "wire staples" I bought in an old mom & pop hardware store that had the slogan on the outside:
"DON'T BABY 'EM, DRIVE 'EM HARD!" I wish I knew where that was now - I know this is pretty unbelievable.
But if you use the straw that came with your big gulp soda cup to cover the nail before bending it ,your up to code.
that's a classic!
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
Probably has been said but code permits staples that are not a whole lot more than bent over nails (do have flat cross over). Plastic clips are not required. (not advocating nails bent over by the way).
i would fid out who pulled th permit, and have them sued then shut down. they creted a potential danger to the HO. then i would go after the inspector.
Tmaxxx
Urban Workshop Ltd
Vancouver B.C.
cheers. Ill buy.
That first pic is an I-joists, not a floor truss.
Notching I-joists isn't generally acceptable. But depending on where it's notched and what the span is, it might fly. The manufacturer could review the situation and tell you for sure.
I-joist, floor truss, whatever. Picky picky.
It's a 12" joist, and this is the end of the run, within a foot of the end bearing point. It's now covewred with 3/4 Advantec, glued and screwed. I used the leftover 1-1/4" sheetrock screws from the last project ... they'll hold, right? :0
Actually I used 2-1/2" deck screws and PL.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
I may be picky - But it matters to me. There's a lot of difference between an I-joists and a floor truss.Since the notch was near the end, I doubt it's a big deal unless the joists were overspanned. You probably already know this, but - Near the ends of an I-joist, there's more stress in the plywood web and less in the top and bottom flanges. Near the center, there's LESS stress in the plywood web and MORE tension/compression in the flanges. That's why the hole charts for I-joists allow bigger holes the farther away from a bearing you get.
One must magnify and pay honor to the pure, and the innocent, and the righteous, and to the learned, to whatsoever people they may belong; and condemn the wicked and the men of iniquity [Genghis Khan]
>> There's a lot of difference between an I-joist and a floor truss.I-joists are trusses. That's why one of the manufacturers calls them Trus-joists.
I-joists are NOT trusses. It doesn't matter that ONE manufacturer calls them "Trus-joists". That's just a brand name.
He was hustling, and good things happen to people who hustle [Chuck Noll, on Franco Harris' "Immaculate Reception"]
It doesn't bother me. I get half a dozen replies in threads that are like that - not specific to me, but in the general contexrt of the coversation, every day.
maybe sphere has a sliver under his fingernail. You know how that makes folks get distracted and act semi-idiotic
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I think the code says something about notching only allowed per design spec. nails no, every inspector has always said approved attachment method for wire, conduit etc.
"...duct supporting strap shall be 1 1/2 " wide and shall be supported at 4' on center" UMC 604.4 UMC standard 6-5
Check out the webside http://www.eastbayicc.org
and download their manual, down load is free, the glossy printed is about 20 bucks. it was writen by a group of building officials, inspectors, engineers, architects and contractors here in northern calif. and follows the new (ICC) INTERNATIONAL CODE COUNCIL