I have a job underway which requires assembling 5 kitchen cabinets ( 3 base and 2 – 30″T x 12″D wall cabinets) into an island.
The 3 base cabinets will sit on the floor and the wall cabinets need to be attached to the back of the base cabinets. Overall dimensions of island = 36″W x 78″L.
Obviously, a frame gets built below the wall cabinets to form a toe kick area, and provide support for the vertical load. Vertical load = cabinets with contents + a 2-1/4″ thick maple butcher block top (~200 lbs)
I am seeking words of wisdom as to how to attach the cabinets, back to back, to each other so they form a rigid unit.
Face framed maple cabinets; 3/4″ plywood forms the exposed cabinet ends with a raised panel, factory-applied; cabinet backs and hidden sides are 3/8″ birch ply.
I am sure in the vast BT knowledge base there exists a simple solution which does not involve Piffin screws or hiring a structural engineer.
Thanks in advance.
Jim
Replies
If I scan you right, you need a structul end panel that encompasses both units.
You have base cabs and wall cabs on the floor? Back to back? a 24" and a 12"? on the ends and a knee hole?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
As usual, I am as clear as mud.
3 base cabinets in a row, stiles screwed together, finished end panels already in place. Overall hieght = 34-1/2". "Non-toekick" area of cabinet face = 30"H.
2 wall cabinets also in a row, stiles screwed together, finished end panels already in place. Cabinet faces = 30" H - same as the base cabinet dimension.
I need to attach the row of base cabinets to the row of wall cabinets - back to back.
I will build a frame to form a "toe kick" area under the wall cabinets to match the toe kick under the bases.
24"D base cabinet + 12"D wall cabinet = 36" overall width of island.
Length of island = 78" = 2 - 39"W wall cabinets. Matches the combined length of the 3 base cabinets in a row.
Better?
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
You might be over thinking this.
Build the toe kick base to support the wall cabs.
Screw the wall cabs to the base.
Screw the base cabs to the base .
Both wall cabs and base units should have a "hanging" strip towards the top. Screw the two together with shims as appropriate.
Attach side panels.
Put on the top.
>>You might be over thinking this.<<
True, I have been known to do that!
>>Build......Screw.......Screw the base cabs........Both wall cabs and base units should have a "hanging" strip towards the top. ....<<
No hanging strips present, just 3/8" plywood backs.
However, that does give me an idea - to add the hanging strips after a fashion.
Perhaps I could add strips inside of the cabinets and through bolt them together at the top of the cabinets.
My primary concern is fastening the cabinet tops together when all I have in the existing cabinets is two layers of 3/8" plywood. 3/8" plywood is not much purchase for a screw.
Cabinet manufacturer / designer supplied way too many maple filler strips which match the cabinet finish - maybe use those as "snowshoes" inside of the cabinets.
Finished end panels are already applied to the appropriate cabinet sides / island ends. This makes it essential that I be able to draw the two cabinet backs together tightly.
Thanks,
Jim Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
That'll be a hard joint to make pretty. You might need to rip those filler strips to make astragal covers on the seam.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>>...hard joint to make pretty.......need to rip those filler strips to make astragal covers on the seam......<<
Yeah, thought about that too.
Thanks,
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
You could just add a 3/4" nailer or screw rail glue and fasten it through the 3/8" back , if one side is seen less screw it from that side only , but add the strips to both sides if possible for maximum strength .
regards dusty
Thanks, that's the direction I am leaning.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Here's what I use.
View Image
http://store.screws4u.com/z4444.html
Hard work is damn near as overrated as monogamy.
- Huey Long
I assume that is essentially a tube with a machine screw thread on the inside and a Phillips / combo screw slot on the end?
Have similar.
Thanks,
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
it's the female end of a sexbolt
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
A couple more options -You might be able to biscuit and clamp the sides. Could do this with the bases face down on something non marring. In other words, put the bases together, then lay them over and clamp the wall cabs to them. Or you might be able to rip, then dado some of your filler material to make sort of a t-astragal (sp?). This would give some cover at the back edges and allow a little slop. Could then bolt cabs thru the astragal from either side. Seems you could make the astragal pretty low profile.Thought about kreg screw from the inside also, but don't know if that 3/8" back would allow that.There's probably lots of ways you could do it, just gotta pick one.
If you have 3/8 back sides to these cabs, I think it will suffice.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
"Piffin screws "
I gave up screwing for Lent
glue and clamps
;)
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Wait..Amish don't screw for Lent? Us Schwenkfelders do like mad rabbits, esp. during lent..them catlick girls get crazy from not eating right.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
you sem to be concerned about screwing the cab's together back to back.
uh ... the floor is gonna take the weight.
the tops of the cab's ain't gonna spread ... they got no where to go.
i.e. ... top of the cab can't fall away from the one behind it ... unless the front / bottom corner can sink into the floor!
this is a fine place to use a short drywall screw. All it's doing is snugging one box up to the one behind it.
this would be like worrying the face frame is gonna fall off one of them.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Thats what I was thinking too.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
>>uh ... the floor is gonna take the weight.
the tops of the cab's ain't gonna spread ... they got no where to go.<<
Understood from the outset.
My question was how to get the tightest possible joint between the two cabinet backs to minimize any gapping at the joint between the two cabinets.
There are no end skins being applied to the finished assembly to hide the joint.
Piffin suggested milling some of my left over filler strips into astragals to hide any gaps. May need to go that way, depending upon outcome of assembly.
Thanks,
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Rabbet meeting edges of boxes with router and set piece of filler strip flush.
Jeff
My question was how to get the tightest possible joint between the two cabinet backs to minimize any gapping at the joint between the two cabinets.
This has been bugging me since your original ppost............your ends have overlays to look like doors. Why all the concern over this "gap or joint" between the two? Are all the doors on the cabinetry that close to gether that you can barely slip a piece of paper between them?
Unless I am lost, I believe that you are thinking yourself into paralysis. I'm going to take a wild guess that this is something you have not done in the past. I believe that when you actually get them joine dup you will realize that your concerns or fears were mostly unrealized.
yeah ... I didn't catch that part.
There's probably supposed to be a gap ... look like doors like U said.
In that case ... I'd be more concerend getting that gap to be consistent with any other overlay doors for realism. Might even have to add a thin filler to make the spread more believable.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Designer should have spec'd plywood panels with the overlays attached to fit behind the extended face frames on the two ends.
>>.....spec'd plywood panels with the overlays attached to fit behind the extended face frames on the two ends.<<
You have hit the nail on the head.
However, the world being what it is ------- I am trying to clean up the mess.
These cabinets (with panels attached) have rabbited ends which are currently flush with the stiles.
Jim Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I am doing the same thing building a peninsula right now. Here's an idea if it helps you. I am mounting the 24" cabs to the floor, then attaching a couple 2x4s to the rear top. I will use the 3" space as a chase for wiring and plumbing for the prep sink. Then I will attach the 12in cabs (mine have toe kicks to match height) to the floor and the 2x4s. The end gets covered with matching "skin."
In the future, try not to get Piffin too excited. How come this forum has no smiley faces??
Thanks for your input.
>>The end gets covered with matching "skin."<<
Therein lies my problem. The cabinets already have raised panels attached to the ends.
The ends / sides of these cabinets are 3/4" thick plywood, stain, finished to match the rest of the cabinet face frame. Onto the above finished faces the manufacturer has attached raised panels (i.e., doors) via screws from the inside of the cabinet box.
Panels could be removed and replaced - but I do not see a gain to be made by doing so.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I think I'd have order the prefinished panels to size for the whole assembly.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Jim, we are in the midst of a huge remodel. We had to make decisions about every time end panels were seen, whether plywood skins, raised door panels, filler strips, or furniture ends. For the peninsula, since I planned to overhang a rounded laminate c'top, I decided to purchase extra plywood skins from the cab't supplier to cover the two cab't ends and the gap between. It may not work for you.
The face frames of the cabinets will be attached to each other with screws as normal. You will need some filler blocks between them on the back to keep the spacing. There are plenty of places where you can run bolts with nuts and washers where they won't show. These can be used not only to fasten the backs of the base units together but also to attach the wall units to the base units. You will need end skins to cover the gap where the cabinets meet, usually 1/4"(nominal) ply matched to the cabinets. 2X cleats are attached to the floor and the cabinets fastened to those through the toe kicks.
Thanks, I'm with you except for the end skins.
Think I will be milling astragals to cover the small gap and perhaps moving the raised end panels a bit to even things up.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I'd probably build the toe kick for the upper first. Then attach it to the base cabs. Then i'd set and attach the upper cabs to the base cabs at the top. You should be able to srew them together at the top.
Are you installing decorative end panels? Those will help hold things together too.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Screw the three base cabinets together at the face.
Roll the assembly on to this face on a drop cloth to protect the finish.
Screw the wall cabinets together at their face.
Check the assembled width of both units and make sure they match each other.
Use shims to fill the gaps at the back of the cabinets and "bolt" together.
Install the wall cabinets to the back of the base cabinets.
Build and install your toe kick assembly.
Roll the whole unit back onto its base. Level and install the top.