Replies

1. 
   gdavis62 | Mar 10, 2004 04:42am | #1

   I spent too much time in commercial work, so my opinion might be worthless.

   When bidding against a well-defined scope, say the price is per plans and specs, but be sure to qualify exceptions.  But I think that only high-end work where a good architect is involved will have such good scope definition.

   If the scope is wide open, and you are really doing design-build, you should be taking Mike Smith's approach, and getting paid well for your proposals, which of course will have to describe the work, give the specs, and even include some drawings.

   Pricing, in either case, should be lump-sum.

2. 
   NickNukeEm | Mar 10, 2004 05:04am | #2

   The official proposal gives the big flick on what they're paying for, and refers to an attachment that covers much more detail.  What they don't get is an even finer detailed document that takes me step-by-step thru the project and includes estimated time and required materials.

   Most everyone that receives my proposals comments that it is well detailed; a fine balance between what they need to know and information overload.

   I never met a tool I didn't like!
1. 
   davidmeiland | Mar 10, 2004 05:30am | #3

   Sorry, lousy thread title, it should be 'itemized bid or bottom line only...', something like that. I'm wondering if you show your (potential) clients each cost associated with their job (every sub, every labor category, material categories, etc.) OR do you just say 'your job will be 18 zillion dollars' without any mention of the parts?Last two companies I worked for itemized it all, including showing the profit margin and all that. Both had plenty of work and even made enough profit. Never seemed like a problem to present that much info. So, I've prepared lots of estimates and change orders that are itemized but am wondering what others are doing.

1. 
   NickNukeEm | Mar 10, 2004 06:04am | #4

   It's itemized...sorta, but not everything.

   I list fees (permit, dump, etc), material estimates, allowances (and am very specific, as I'm sure everyone is), and finally, the total cost of the project.  So labor, profit, overhead, etc., are all lumped into the difference between the previously listed stuff.

   No need to spoon feed them everything, let their imaginations work a little.  When I started, I just gave the bottom line.  But I've found that the itemized list helps support a higher bid.  Just a 'feeling', but they seem more satisfied seeing the breakdown.  Maybe.  Who knows, not me, that's for sure.

   Hope this helps.

   I never met a tool I didn't like!

2. 
   timkline | Mar 10, 2004 07:21am | #5

   We do most of our proposals broken down line-item style, as required by insurance companies. Each item is individually priced. Very, very detailed.

   Homeowner gets the full scope with a lump sum price. Giving the homeowner full pricing leads to cherry picking nightmares. 

   Every          Single           Time...........

   carpenter in transition

1. 
   james | Mar 10, 2004 07:35am | #6

   amen tim,

   we give line item type bids, without the price on the line, the only figure I the entire document ( aside from allowances or estimated speciality contractor prices ) is the bottom line, I have had too many of my old line item bids handed back to me by other contractors. ( the ho's ask a contractor if they can beat this and give them my work )

   then there was the people who took all of the line item bids and tried to get the cheapest ones to come in for each task, we just laughed.

   james

3. 
   AaronRosenthal | Mar 10, 2004 08:40am | #7

   I tend to give detailed descriptions with my pricing, but it can backfire.

   I just completed a detailed proposal and the customer told me she could not understand it. Seems all her other contractors give her a parts, labour, tax and total line.

   After I tried to explain everything, I just gave up, and spent an hour with the calculator trying to add up each category and gave her a letter with the subtotals.

   Quality repairs for your home.

   Aaron the Handyman
   Vancouver, Canada