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I’ve got asbesto’s!!!

madmadscientist | Posted in General Discussion on March 21, 2007 11:20am

So I got the asbestos report back today…and its positive for asbestos.  It says that there is trace amounts of asbestos in the fricken dry-wall compound and in a texture on the walls in one of the rooms there is a 2% Chrysotile Asbestos.

Who the heck new there was asbestos in drywall compound… I’m waiting on a call from the analyst to explain exactly how screwed I am. 

Has anyone here ever had to deal with this?  Is this something I can ‘remediate’ myself?  I’m hoping I don’t have to pay some ‘professional asbestos removal’ firm to remove my dang drywall…geez…

Daniel Neuman

Oakland CA

Crazy Home Owner

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  1. User avater
    xxPaulCPxx | Mar 21, 2007 11:39pm | #1

    Hey, welcome to the club!

    My house was built in 1960, and there was asbestos in nearly everything!  Drywall, drywall mud, popcorn ceiling, wire insulation, tile, tile mastic, vent pipe stacks, and air duct insulation.

    I have/had the same thing.  Yes, you can remediate yourself... but for big jobs it would pay to use a company.  It's not dangerous unless you are going to make it powdery.  What kind of work do you have planned?

    Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA

    Also a CRX fanatic!

    1. User avater
      madmadscientist | Mar 22, 2007 12:24am | #3

      Well since we are gutting the walls that have the joint compound on them I would imagine that thats going to cause some dust.....

      What does it even mean to 'remediate' it?  You gotta wear a moonsuit and have air piped in?Daniel Neuman

      Oakland CA

      Crazy Home Owner

      1. MSA1 | Mar 22, 2007 12:35am | #5

        Dont know a ton about asbestos abatement but I do know that wetting it down will help with the dust.

        Suit up and be careful. 

      2. User avater
        xxPaulCPxx | Mar 22, 2007 02:09am | #9

        I will tell you what I did when I pulled my asbestos loaded walls on my recent bedroom project:

        I sealed off the room from the rest of the house with 6mil poly sheet, sealed at the edges of the doorway with duct tape.  I put a sealed zipper on it so I could get in and out.

        I opened both windows of the room, and mounted a box fan to the window blowing out and left it on high.  I sucked air and airborn particles out of the house... and into my neighbors yard :)

        I used a North 7600 full face respirator with the purple asbestos cartidges.

        I sprayed encapsulant everywhere on the walls and ceiling.  I them gently tore all the old drywall down from the walls and ceiling.  I used a prybar to try and get behind the wallboard and work it away from the wall.  Most came off in multifoot sections.

        While the stuff had asbestos, it wasn't hot enough to have to have to use a hazardous disposal method - it all went out in the regular trash.  (as my kitchen walls did when they were pulled for my by a proffesional abatement company) I filled dozens of 55 gallon garbage bags and dropped them off at the dump.  After is was all off and out, I sprayed the room down again with encapsulant to tag down the residual dust.

        Clothes were taken off right by the washer dryer - they were wet with sweat so I wasn't a walking dustcloud.

        It's not perfect hygenic protocol, but I'm also not doing this stuff every day.

        I buy my gear from a company called Abatix, and their sales staff is pretty helpful with what you need.

        If you do decide to hire a pro company, be aware that they will charge a per day fee no matter how small the project.  If you can get it under $2000 a day you are doing well... if you can even find someone to do residential!Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA

        Also a CRX fanatic!

        1. User avater
          madmadscientist | Mar 22, 2007 02:12am | #11

          What exactly is the encapsulant you are talking about?  Blowing the asbestos dust outside is a major no no!  If you blew it thru a HEPA filter that'd be alright but damn you just blew it straight out the window??Daniel Neuman

          Oakland CA

          Crazy Home Owner

          1. User avater
            xxPaulCPxx | Mar 22, 2007 02:19am | #12

            Encapsulant...

            As to the dust, you really need more exposure than just a speck of it to hurt you, and as another poster mentioned every time you hit the brakes you used to release asbestos into the open air.

            Remember, you are not taking a grinder to that texture - you would be pulling it in a wet, sticky environment.  Any dust that's not stuck to the surroundings dissapates out into the wide open air outside.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA

            Also a CRX fanatic!

  2. MikeSmith | Mar 22, 2007 12:00am | #2

    not  only asbestos.. i bet you'd test positive for lead  too

    Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
    1. User avater
      madmadscientist | Mar 22, 2007 12:26am | #4

      not  only asbestos.. i bet you'd test positive for lead  too

      You got that right.  They are more lenient here on that than asbestos.  They even give you free 'lead paint removal kits'.Daniel Neuman

      Oakland CA

      Crazy Home Owner

  3. Southbay | Mar 22, 2007 01:02am | #6

    Trace is less than 1% asbestos. An asbestos containing material (ACM) is any material that has more than 1% asbestos. A material classified as Trace is not ACM and is not regulated.

    The textured finish, at 2% is a regulated asbestos material. This type of material will likely release many asbestos fibers if removed/disturbed.

    I'm not familiar with California, but as a homeowner, you may be exempt from the asbestos regulations while working on your own home. Still, I would be careful with those walls. You could contaminate yourself and the house.

    To do this job safely you need HEPA filtered respiratory protection, HEPA vacuum and HEPA negative air machines. The work areas must be isolated from the rest of the house and poly sheeting used to protect surfaces not subject to removal. The walls must be wetted with amended water, before, during, and after removal. Several cleanings are required after the wallboard is removed and bagged, and the area is still under containment. The wallboard should be removed in large pieces to minimize breakage. No mechanical equipment is allowed unless fitted with a HEPA filtered vacuum at the cutting area.

    Air monitoring is recommended - required if an asbestos contractor does the work.

    Bart
    NYS asbestos consultant

    1. User avater
      xxPaulCPxx | Mar 22, 2007 01:46am | #8

      Here in Cali, that trace number is actually .5

      I know that because the guy who tested it told me that the stuff in the walls wouldn't be considered dangerous anyplace in the country... except California where the threashold is lower.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA

      Also a CRX fanatic!

      1. User avater
        madmadscientist | Mar 22, 2007 02:10am | #10

        Well that's good news in a way as I only have trace amounts detected except for the one small room the the textured walls.  Maybe I can get them to let me demo everything but that and have the pros come in and do that room.  Its only 10'by10'.

         Daniel Neuman

        Oakland CA

        Crazy Home Owner

      2. User avater
        DDay | Mar 22, 2007 02:31am | #13

        California has a problem with everything. The PITA of it is where its such a large state, when some nitwit gov agency decides something, companies find it cheaper to make a change completely, so we lose good products.My favorite is the debate over whether to mark potato chips, fries, etc. as "known to cause cancer to the state of California" because frying potatoes creates some minisule amount of a chemical that california says causes cancer.

  4. vintage1 | Mar 22, 2007 01:13am | #7

    I am not an expert by any means, and I may get called on this one but,

    Asbestos is only a hazard when it becomes friable.  That means that if you cut, grind, or whatever and create dust, you have released the fibers into the air which can then be inhaled, thereby causing damage to the lungs.  There are air monitoring tests that determine how many ppm can be released.

    If however, the asbestos is encapsulated in another material the chance of releasing it is greatly reduced.  Wetting the material you intend to remove also reduces the chance of release.

    I also think that 2% chrysotile is relatively low compared to say, asbestos containing pipe insulation.  Brake pads used to contain asbestos.  How much asbestos do you think was released every time someone slammed on the brakes?

    As a practical matter, I think that with caution, common sense and wetting everything down, you could remove it.

    BUT, you are in CA so who knows what you will have to do.  I see all kinds of warnings on chalk, paint, glue, etc. that the state of CA recognizes ingredients that may cause cancer.

  5. Piffin | Mar 22, 2007 05:07am | #14

    nothin' suprising about it. There is asbestos in DIRT for cryin' out loud.
    It was common for it to be in some plaster and DW ccompound up until the sixties.
    Encapsulation is usually the best way to deal with it.

     

     

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    1. Catskinner | Mar 23, 2007 03:52pm | #26

      <<nothin' suprising about it. There is asbestos in DIRT for cryin' out loud.>>I get the impression that you think that the People's Republic of California is making far too big of a deal out of this. I certainly think that they are. <G><<Encapsulation is usually the best way to deal with it.>>Like wetting it down, wrapping it up real good and throwing it in the dumpster? <G>Man, I lived in a steel quonset hut with a sprayed asbestos interior. Every so often an F-4 would light the afterburners and a chunk of asbestos would fall off the (ceiling/wall? all the same), hit the floor, and create a dust cloud of asbestos. The environmental officers came down and monitored the situation and assured us it was safe.So there you have it. It's safe. Along with Agent Orange and depleted uranium.I think our government has lost it. Sure, if you worked on brakes and cluthes in the 1960's and 1970's you should not have been breathing the dust.But 1% in drywall? Wear a dust mask.

      1. john7g | Mar 23, 2007 05:35pm | #27

        Place I used to work had pipes (big) wrapped in asbestos insulation.  They encapsulated it.  Wrapped it in fiberglass tape to keep the dust from floating and laid out warning labels every 10' or so warning DFW.  Seems encapsulation can take many forms. 

        1. Catskinner | Mar 23, 2007 06:27pm | #28

          Yep. I worked on a similar job, a big commercial demo/remodel. Friable asbestos at every joint and every bend all over everywhere. Wet it lightly, wrap it, and don't worry about it.For the handwringers amongst us, yes, I have watched a family member die of asbestosis. It's horrible. And as far as I know, it may kill me, too (see previous post).But these regulations are beyond ridiculous.

  6. Thaumaturge | Mar 22, 2007 08:30pm | #15

    That house must be getting to be more fun for you by the minute...

    I would hire a contractor just to CYA and make sure it's done right.  The last thing you want is someone getting wind of the fact that you knew about this and took some shortcut.

    The room is small, so the price shouldn't be too outrageous.  Just costly enough to  tick you off.  Follow the protocol mentioned by Southbay, and for crying out loud don't blow the dust out the window!

    A little over 15 years ago I had a multi-million dollar networking project I was managing pushed seriously over budget by the discovery of asbestos.  After spending a cool $750,000 to encapsulate and dispose of the nasty stuff, the cable pullers still had to be checked out for and wear full face respirators and suits.  (never did get a rational explanation) One poor guy passed out from heat exhaustion about half way through the job.

    1. 1110d | Mar 22, 2007 09:30pm | #16

      You are panicing just like the lawyers want you to.  The test report should state how you can deal with the product.  Often, for the low amount you have they will say that you should just wear a dust mask when working around the material.  Because the product is present is no reason to panic or strip it out of your house.  It's when we get to the higher concentrations that the asbestos count becomes an issue.  

      Certified boat fetish.

      1. Rebeccah | Mar 22, 2007 10:42pm | #17

        He was going to gut two of the three floors in the house to the studs, anyway. So, it's not a question of panicking or stripping it out of the house *because* it's asbestos. It's a matter of finding out what California's, and more specifically the City of Alameda's, requirements are about who's allowed to remove it, what techniques they are required to use, what documentation they need to keep, and how they are allowed to dispose of the material that has been removed.Rebeccah

      2. Thaumaturge | Mar 22, 2007 10:47pm | #18

        I think you meant to direct this reply to ALL or the OP.

        In any case, given the extensive work he's doing, I'm guessing he may be disturbing quite a lot of this stuff.  I'd buy the peace of mind were it my house, and get rid of it rather than worrying about every little dust cloud. 

        You're right that the danger is really only serious in high concentrations, but since my lungs already contain their fair share of asbestos and other contaminants, I'd write the check to avoid more.

  7. MikeK | Mar 23, 2007 02:46am | #19

    Daniel,

    By testing for asbestos you have increased your liability. Now that you know about it you are held to a higher standard.  The prior owners of the house did not know about the asbestos, therefore they were not required to disclose it to you when you bought the house. Sometimes you're better off being ignorant.

    Since you know about it you almost are forced to have at least a portion of the house professionally abated. You need to get the piece of paper from the certified abatement company in order to reduce your liability.

    Just something to think about.  I can only guess what will happen if a government bureaucrat finds out about the asbestos, especially in the State of CA. I went through a battle with my local County Health Department over the lead paint issue. Not fun. I eventually won in court because the inspector did not know the law he was inforcing and he screwed up.

    Get the piece of paper from the abatement company, and you never have to worry about the issue again.

    Mike K

    Old House Remodeler

    Aurora, IL

    1. User avater
      madmadscientist | Mar 23, 2007 04:49am | #20

      Hi Mike,

      Well I didn't have a choice about it...they wouldn't give me a demo permit without one...so now I know...If I am reading the regs right I only need to offically abate the one small room.

      Had the worst case scenerio with my new building dept today.  What I wanted to do was a bit unusual (according to them) I worked it out with the boss and the head permit tech before hand.  I went in today to get the permits and the boss and permit tech are out sick!  I'm left with the junior tech who doesn't know crap and starts quoting to me all these ridiculous rules that the oldtimers have already waved...I listened attentavely to all her new completely different suggestions...and got the heck outta there....thinking that I would   come back on friday and get my permits from the people who don't have their heads up their butts...turns out no one important works on Fridays at this place!!! So now I can't do any demo over the weekend and I'll have to wait till Monday or Tuesday to try again....yay!!! small town building depts are fun!!!!!!!

       Daniel Neuman

      Oakland CA

      Crazy Home Owner

      1. TomW | Mar 23, 2007 02:19pm | #24

        At least three employee's and you call it a small town building dept.

        Where I'm building the building department is one guy and his office hours are thursdays from noon - 3:00.

        Yours sounds like a metropolis:) 

        1. WNYguy | Mar 23, 2007 02:42pm | #25

          Tom, I almost made the same comment.  My town's like yours -- one parttime person with "office hours" one afternoon each week.

          Generally, we like it that way.  But it has impeded progress on a project or two.

          Allen

    2. ncproperties | Mar 23, 2007 05:00am | #21

      Biggest problem not mentioned about trying to "remedy" this your self is it's illegal to just throw out (ACM).  No matter how careful you are with HEPAs, polly, glove bags, and amended water, for your own protection, the ACM still has to be double bagged and tagged and hauled out in sealed asbestos containers. whether  that's a 55gal. drum for a little or a 30yrd. closed dumpster for more.  Your local landfill or trash hauler may not appreciate an unmarked load of asbestos and if for any reason they catch wind of it, well you wanna talk about being screwed than.  Especially since you would be held negligently liable since it's on record that you know it's ACM. You'd be screwed and nailed to the wall. Plus now you have to disclose this info if you intend to sell the property.   When dealing with older homes I just assume the worst as far as lead/asbestos, etc... protect my self in those regards and never have it tested to protect myself in the legal regards.  

      1. iluvgear | Mar 23, 2007 05:28am | #22

        What companies test materials?  Can you send them samples or do they need to collect them?  What does this type of testing cost?  Any information provided would be much appreciated.

  8. Jointerman | Mar 23, 2007 09:40am | #23

    Daniel,

    Back in December, just before we our house demolished (60%) for our remodel, we too found asbestos. All of our floor tiles contained asbestos as did our popcorn ceiling. Before you can do any removal/abatement, you have to file a form $$$ with Bay Area Air Quality Management District for a J# and district fee. I don't have all the details in front of me, but you need to do that before proceeding.

    You may want to consider hiring it out, because disposal will be a problem as well. We hired out the abatement.

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