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Fred, Do you write for Letterman??? P.S. I also have a minimal impact on the planet!
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Maj, where in Iowa? I am in Davenport, Bettendorf, and working on a place in La Crosse, on the Black River.
Dennis
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About 25 miles northeast of Mason City
*JACkYou should have consulted with the 'Ombudsman' before you posted. . . that was waaay too(o) one sided!!!Take off the friggin shades. . . your Weatherization buddy is a b KNEE JERK extraordinaire!!!and he doesn't need his monstrous ego stroked/stoked or excused by you.Here's i slappinyou, kid-P
*Dear FredYour advise to others is as qualified as your poetry.Is there anything in life you're good at?Quess not.......If I were Gene, and I don't want to be, I'd find someone more intelligent, to defend me.You see, my friend, I don't have to pass your tests to qualify writing answers to these threads.You've taken a small bit of the entire package of house building sciences and have made it the focus of your life. You're so intent on being declared Master of the Universe for riding on Gene's coat tail, with this perfect envelope nonsense, that you're blind to the fact, that the house's other important components will fail as a direct result of your misuse of technology.Keep beating up on Mother Nature and she will bite back.
*Patrick,When it comes to Fred L all you do is rant and rave...You never add your ideas on systems of construction that you think work or don't work or personal experience of such....Anybody can get in a pissing contest, that's easy and I don't think much of it especially if I'm the idiot caught in one!!!So truce with me as I am not into extending these major "your moma didn't have any kids that lived" yaks...Thanks for the slap though, see you at the shin dig,J
*Gabe,Silly boy....while in the corner, you're not to speak....Come out when you have something of value to say.....No slaps for you!!!....Until you can behave like an adult?????Your credibility ship is sinking faster and faster!!!J
*Fred, Silly boy....while in the corner, you're not to speak....Come out when you have something of value to say.....No slaps for you!!!....Until you can behave like an adult????? Your credibility ship is sinking faster and faster!!! J
*Jack show me the value and credibility in Fred's last insulting remarks and I'll turn the ship around.
*Venting,Is about air exchange in attic and under roof areas of a home....Lets get back on the subject or another cross threaded idea with a more palpaple flavor....What do you say all....Next post better contain some humor or as my favorite client always tells me and her super husband, "You'll all get a lickin if you don't stop a kickin!!!"Peace Bro's,J
*Gabe,No value in what either of you dogs are up to....time to turn the ship????Can I turn off the hose soon pups???J
*JackI've been adding myi " ideas on systems of construction that (I) think work or don't work or personal experience of such..."for almost a year now, not as prolifically as some, because I like to listen and learn, rather than puff and strut. I guess they weren't worthy enough to have caught your attention!!! Check the threads on insulation, R values, cathedral ceiling venting and collar ties, metal roofing and chimney chases, and then there's the recent one from the guy looking for ideas on constructing a small door. I could list at least a dozen but what's the point??? Another "pissing contest"???. . . Not my style.If my comments about Fred's frequently ugly demeanor, and nasty vitriol qualify as ranting and raving what words could you possibly find to describei histhoughtless outbursts, and snide commentary??? Judging by the email that I get, Fred has done significant damage to the credibility of this board, and I have tried to limit myself to pointing out, on occasion, how ugly such behaviour is!! Aren't you a little old for Heroworship!!!. . . so many slaps coming to you I'll need help. . . Joe???-Patrick
*JackI've been adding myi " ideas on systems of construction that (I) think work or don't work or personal experience of such..."for almost a year now, not as prolifically as some, because I like to listen and learn, rather than puff and strut. I guess they weren't worthy enough to have caught your attention!!! Before summarily dismissing my contributions check the threads on insulation, R values, cathedral ceiling venting and collar ties, metal roofing and chimney chases,electrical weirdness, and then there's the recent one from the guy looking for ideas on constructing a small door. I could list at least a dozen but what's the point??? Another "pissing contest"???. . . Not my style.If my comments about Fred's frequently ugly demeanor, and nasty vitriol qualify as ranting and raving what words could you possibly find to describei histhoughtless outbursts, and snide commentary??? Judging by the email that I get, Fred has done significant damage to the credibility of this board, and I have tried to limit myself to pointing out, on occasion, how ugly such behaviour is!! Aren't you a little old for Heroworship??!. . . so many slaps coming to you I'll need help. . . Joe???-Patrick
*Patrick,I have seen your ideas online...what I'm saying is that a post like this one to me has no ideas....All it shows is that you want all to know how much you feel about Fred and how you feel about anyone who respects his right to post his ideas....You and I are good buddies if Fred's not playing in the sandbox with us, so lets leave it at that....Allow me the grace to respect and play with whom I desire when I desire buddy,J
*Whew!Back to Maj's comment:I have the answer to his observations:1. Maj is cold.2. His storm windows are really thick.3. His home is very small4. His walls are plaster, and are very thick5. Maj's Hawkeyes are so hot, they heat up NE Iowa.6. Your father in law owns Iowa Power and Light and gives you a discount.Seriously, that's a good point. I suspect the attic insulation is probably the best thing he did. If there is lotsa snow on his roof, if has a nice cool attic, which is what we all like to see to prevent ice dams.
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maj has a still in the basement that he fires with charcoal. Since he writes off the costs of fuel against the revenues from the lightening, the net costs to heating the upper stories of the house are significantly reduced. Its simple tax math.
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after thinking it just was better left unsaid
*Kevin's there, that's who!!!Hey, Take a risk, give us your opinions or borrow someone elses....cluck cluck cluck...Come on jump in, we're almost harmless,J
*My house is also a 1 1/2 story cape about the same size. Oil boiler, baseboard radiators, no fireplace or aux heaters. I used less than 60 gal. of fuel oil to heat it on a 4500HDD winter. How do I manage to do this for <$40/year?P.S. I keep it above 68 deg. F
*Ron,You've got real insulation in it?Steve
*You there Ron?Fess up! You're the one who did the thermal imaging tests on all the wall sections and chose cells in walls built out of 12" engineered floor joists, No?Or was it just plain 2x6 walls with cells? What did you do for the ceiling/roof insulation?Steve
*Hi Steve,The house was built as a 2BR ranch about 50 years ago. I built a new wall around the old wall supported on a ledger 9.25" out from the foundation and 5" below the sill. The window openings were lined with 1/4" ply to tie the new wall to the old. The cavity was filled with Icynene foam. I framed a new floor over the old 2x4 ceiling joists with 12" TJIs 24" o.c. I then built the new 2nd floor with custom trusses for the 12 in 12 pitch front roof and rear 3 in 12 pitch shed dormer. The gable ends and rear wall was framed with 12" TJIs 24" o.c. as studs, cantilevering out 9.25" to match the new first floor walls. The dog-house dormers were framed with 2x6's and insulated with Icynene and 1" poly iso board. Vent chutes made of 1/2" foil faced poly iso board was installed 2 1/2" from the sheathing (1/2" ply) of the front roof slope leaving a 15" space for insulation. 6 mil poly with TREMCO caulk on the seams was installed on the inside and then drywall. The walls and front roof were blown full with Cells and about 24" of loose fill in the attic. I'll go over the HVAC in my next post.Ron
*Very cool, Ron!Why the foam in the walls but cells in the roof? Was the roof just not ready for the foam guy when he came, or was it a more logical reason?Steve
*Steve,The foam was used in th walls of the first floor section of the walls only. It was because the origional house had no VB and Icynene was the only insulation that I felt would be OK in that application since it is permeable to to moisture but not airflow. DP cells would probably have worked but I felt a little better about the Icynene and I wanted to try Icynene anyway. One of these days I need to compare Icynene to PUR on a $/R/Sq. Ft. basis. Cels were used in the new construction based on environmental conscience, performance, cost and bug resistance.Heat is with a Buderus oil boiler with a Reilo BF direct vent burner with a lot of baseboard zones and 2 radiant floor zones. A/C is a water to air heat pump (Command-Aire) with a horizontal closed loop and a diversion of waste heat to a cheap "K-Mart special" above ground pool. I have an HRV. The heat pump can also be used for heat, but oil is cheaper around here and since I generate most of my electricity from Solar PV, I don't really have enough surplus in the winter, but that's another thread.My backup heat is three cats.
*Ron,My backup heat is 9 cats, a Bernese Mountain Dog and a flatulant Boston Terrier. In spite of that I've spent about 170 dollars a month on fuel oil this very mild winter! But then again my house is just a shell with mostly sheets of poly to hold the heat in right now.Steve
*Steve,Have you tried piping the terrier to a gas furnace?Ron
*Ron,My not too distant goals include disconnecting from as many utilties, monthly and annual payments as possible...Sun energy....Great stuff as nobody resells it yet (to me at least.)Post more details of your systems and future ideas as you have time.Thanks,Nearer the stream,J
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I live in a 1926 1 1/2 story house.I insulated some of the walls when I remodeled the kitchen/dining area.Otherwise there is little or no insulation in the house(oh yeah,I threw 3 1/2" batts in the attic when I bought the place).Windows are old double hungs(drafty),I did replace a few with sash kits.Put on cheap combo storms.Attic has absolutely no ventilation(no soffit,roof,or gable vents).No bathroom vent.New LP gas furnace 5 yrs ago,new power vented water heater 3 yrs ago.Furnace is hot water boiler with baseboard registers.I live in the country,northeast Iowa(near Minnesota border).Here's the catch---I heat my house for about $400/winter.I have no problem with ice dams,no snow load,no excessive moisture(in fact we run a humidifier all winter long).How do I manage to do this for $400/year?
*You keep the thermostat at 38 degrees?Rich Beckman
*No offer's of milkbones????Forget it....you'll have to spill the beans.J
*maj,
Joseph FuscoView Image
*MajYou do what I did a number of years ago. . . dress up like the Michelen man, and spend all day stoking the cookstove in the big ol kitchen with all the i freefirewood you cut off the property. At night, you and the old lady hunker down under a pile of gramma's quilts and play house. Next day same as above. . . the fancy furnace keeps the rest of the barn, I mean house, just above freezin so the pipes don't burst.Been there, done that. . . played house toooo enthusiastically and had to fix it up for the kids that started comin!!!Whaddalife!!!
*1. You probably don't need attic venting because the windows on the top floor (which you don't use) leak so badly, they replace the venting you would otherwise need.2. You probably burn a humongous pile of firewood which you cut yourself from your own back 40. Of the 400 you spent on heating last year, 300 went to gas for the chainsaw.3. As for Patrick's playing house, that is out of the question if you are married because, as soon as women say "I do", they don't! (except for my wife who just might read this - honest honey, I didn't mean you!)
*You stay in florida while the house is just warm enough to keep the pipes from freezing.
*It's a 500 sqft home.J
*The house is approx. 1600 sq.ft. Simon is about the closest except for the $300 chainsaw bill.House gets so hot sometimes I have to open the windows.I actually have a wood boiler hooked up to the LP furnace so that at nite I start a nice toasty fire in the woodburner,then shut down the furnace and crank open the thermostats.A constant flow of hot water circulating throughout the house gets it up to about 75 degrees by morning,then I die the fire out and turn down the thermostats.Alot of south facing glass to help on sunny days.Yes, it does take a bit of my time during the fall to get the wood cut and split,then tossed down and stacked,but I love the outdoors(gives me a chance to get away from it all for awhile,especially after a long,hard summer).My point was actually about ventilation.Does'nt anyone think that we can get houses too(to)tight,thus trapping all that moisture.There is quite expensive air handlers and exchangers that need to be installed also,is'nt there?Maybe I am looking at it the wrong way,but tighter is'nt always better in my mind.I agree that there needs to be sufficient insul. everywhere(especially the attic),and good energy eff. windows & doors.But really,sealing every little crack and wall joint,where does the fresh air come from?
*With a tight house it's nice to open a window!!!...And the air that escapes moist or not doesn't effect the structure.J
*Fred doesn't get around to talking about it much, but yes it is at least theoretically possible to get the house too tight. If you are using a blower door, there are guidelines as to how tight the house should be. I suppose if you are not using the blower door, it is probably very difficult to make the house too tight. For more info check out:http://www.homeenergy.org/eehem/93/930309.htmlOr, as Jack says, there is always the open window.Rich Beckman
*Yeah right who's gonna open the window when its 25 below and the wind chill makes it 40 below??
*Fred, Do you write for Letterman??? P.S. I also have a minimal impact on the planet!
*HRV's ($$$) or exhaust/makeup air vents?
*Kevin. . . ?
*Fred, What's up with capitalizing "Weatherization crews"? I have three theories on this matter: 1) You think that each contractor should capitalize his/her trade. Blue, for example, should refer to Framing crews. 2) You think that Weatherization is above all other trades; and therefore, deserves to be capitalized. 3) Your flame war with Joe adversely affected your grammar skills. Doing my best without spell/grammar check, Kyle
*He must have died trying ... to ... get ... one ... last ... post.
*Coming soon: Weatherization®(That's an R with a circle around it for people with inadequate computers.)
*Knock, Knock...Who's there?????Anyone?J
*I do
*Kyle,You're (due) for extra slaps atb The PartyIf we even allow you!...Well we actuallly love to slap all so you're invited....but we'll be watching you closely now for your first "slip" up!!JPatrick...I'll let it go this time...the beer's on me...and I'm counting on you and blue helping with not just the drinking but you better practice your slap for the b Slap-em Then Hand-em a Beer Fest.
*Fred L,One thing I'm sure you know by now is that if you are extremely knowledgable in an area where other's are "just treading water" then your gonna get these adverse reactions...b Weatherization® ...I like that...Please use it frome now on...J(
*Anyoneb WHO?
*JackThat's due,b DUEas in due due. . . maybe we should call it the . . . if the wives wanna know what we're doin just say b Slap All!!!-P.
*I agree Maj! Too tight is unhealthy. If others would just try my wham, bam, slam, it act, it will be leaky enough.Just build a reasonable decent house, skip the fancy wraps, and you will have a reasonable decent heated house. It worked for me. Good Idea taking advantage of the southern exposure. It helps a ton if you let it.Others can tell you that hey have better heating systems etc, but since gas is cheap...Blue
*It sounds like you are saying that you always seal the place up 100% and then make other provisions for the 15 cfm per person and the 100 cfm for cooking and bathing.So what are these other provisions?And while I'm here, someone (you?) mentioned somewhere else that the smoke from the smoke bottles is toxic and corrosive. Don't you have customers that object? How are you certain that you get it all out?Rich Beckman
*Kyle, I'm insulted! We don't just frame. We are master Boogerers! ED NOTE: genuflecting is highly reccomended at this moment.Blue
*Well, gee whiz. I have no idea what to make of that. I thought it was a simple question, similar to dozens that you have answered for others. I have absolutely no idea what I have done to deserve this answer, but I guess in the future I will just have to wait until someone you respect asks the question I would like the answer to.Thanks for nothing,Rich Beckman
*RichNotice how your first paragraph was dismissed with a flippant retort? Providing the i whole picture isn't part of the "programme". . . look elsewherei the truth be out there-Patrick
*Hang in there Rich, sometimes the most dangerous advise comes from people who have so little to offer that they disguise it with satire.
*Ah, a fellow cheapskate, and you don't even have Scottish blood. Still hoping you'd answer this question. And I was not serious about provoking a bloodbath.
*Accusing tone?? Contrary supposition?? Does anybody else see that in my post??Fred, I am sorry if these things are there, but I certainly did not intend them. I am appreciative of your expertise and your willingness to help.I know dozens of people that would immediately question the nature of the smoke and would be very concerned about allowing it in their homes. I am curious as to whether that comes up for you, and if it does, how do you handle it?I am keenly aware that if I decide to pursue Weatherization as you practice it, attendence at "real training" will be necessary. April may be a bit too soon...but I will look into it.Thank you for the book titles, I will certainly acquire (and read) them.Rich Beckman
*Thanks.Rich Beckman
*Sorry Fred but I don't need or want your respect, it would be worthless to me.I'm very familiar with smoke bottles, as well as smoke screens and dealing with people who claim to be able to suck and blow at the same time.I wouldn't want to keep you from dedicating half your life to helping mankind, what I find offensive is the other half of your life.Everytime you're caught in a corner, you're like a politician backpeddling to explain what you really meant.So keep up with the insults my friend, you're exposing yourself, everytime you try.
*Gee, and English was my best subject...Your son's name is the same as... ?"Douglass" is one of the many Scottish clans, so I feel entitled to pick on them/myself.--AD
*OK, the lines have been drawn clearly by those concerned. Time to move on. A truly confident person lets criticism run off like water.Bickering may be pursued by e-mail, it's not possibly of interest to anyone else.
*Fred oh Fred, How you rant and rave about nothing.Is your life that lonely and empty that you must scour all of these threads to find something to attack me on?Take a nickel, from the millions of dollars you have saved people in fuel cost and buy yourself a life.
*You are not doing anything new -- all you have is a geothermal system. What do you do when you can't run the pump?
*Any Juan from Mexico?J
*Dear insulting FredLI've found your weakness and you can't take it. You've found someone who can't be intimidated or impressed by your self proclaimed expertise and it's tearing you apart. Tough!I will continue to encourage people to build, intelligently as opposed to trying out your experiments at their expense.You're dangerous to the industry and to the people you advise. I'm surprised you haven't been taken to task before now.My only hope is that maybe someday I'll have the opportunity to work on behalf of one of your unfortunate clients in a litigation to recover damages.I'll leave you with these words if you can understand them. You can control Mother Nature as long as it's what, she was wanting to do anyways.
*Gabe and Fred,Look kiddies....Stop posting at each other....One poke each, then kiss and move on...This online battle is worthless to the rest of us....Gabe....I don't agree with you that Fred L is anything but amazingly informative as far as Weatherization goes....So lets start right out agreeing to disagree about Fred...Fred....Gabe is way out of line here attacking you and it's obvious enough that you ought to bypass his crap and stick with running your flap about the funner side of life and the ventlessly Fred yak which most of us enjoy...Don't let Gabe, Joe, Patrick or anyone else "Up your skirt so far...Close that vent up!!!Now lets play playfully or your both going to timeout if I have to come and pull the cord on your computers myself...and I will!!!!Do like you both by the way, when your being nicer,JAnd if you guys do keep at it, I'm gonna set up a "Slap Flamers a Dozen times for a quarter" booth at the Great Fall Fest and put you two in it as the star attractions!!!