in a kitchen we worked on recently the lighting circuit was 12 2 w/g wire. the owner added 8 small 50 watt high hats. my question is the junction boxes on the high hats were to small to hold the proper wire nuts. the 12 wires conected to the high hats wire and left outside the box. the high hats were thermally fused and in between 2x 8 ceiling joists. are these now flying splices and is this safe?
ps there were 4 lights per circuit w/ 2 dimmer switchs
Replies
Flying splices are not O.K. Unsafe, and a clear violation of Code.
All it takes on one of the splices to be poorly made. Over time the vibration of the building (from the furnace/AC fan or whatever) may cause a splice to fail. Worst case, it will be an arcing fault, spitting sparks into whatever debris has built up below it. Could be real trouble.
Best case, the connection fails open, now you've got a dead circuit and no way of knowing that there are splices hidden up there, inaccessible.
If you're a building pro and did the work for pay, and you did ANY work on the wiring, even unrelated to the lighting circuit you described, I suggest you convince the owner to fix the situation. If he refuses, note on the invoice that you advised him about the substandard existing wiring. If this is family or a friend, and he won't listen to reason, report it to the building inspector. Better that than feeling guilty about a fire.
Cliff
Is it safe?
Wire nuts should never come apart from "vibration."
They may not be to code, but it is hard to tell.
I'm sure there's a reason, but why 12 wires in the can box?
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
"junction boxes on the high hats too small to hold the proper size wire nuts. the 12 wires connected to the high hats wire and left outside the box."
1) proper size wire nuts - each high hat j box should have 4 #12 conductors plus 2 ground wires + the fixture wires from the individual high hat lamp socket. Connections as follows - 2 #12 black + black fixture wire; 2 #12 white + white fixture wire; 3 #12 ground depending on whether a ground screw and tag is used or a factory attached ground pig tail ( may be smaller than #12). Each of these connections would only require a yellow wire nut - certainly not very large. Maybe they exist but I have never seen a high hat j-box that would not hold the above connections with room to spare.
2) left outside the box - thats a big no-no - call it a flying splice or whatever any inspector would fail the job from way across the room.
Is it safe? I do not claim to know all of the ins and outs of electrical failures and the resulting fires etc. I accept that the NEC requires certain procedures and the resulting work will be safe, or at least contained and accessible to the poor smuck who is trying to fix it. The NEC is pretty darn specific as to prohibiting unenclosed splices / junctions. I will not say yes or no to "safe" just that I would never do it; if it won't pass inspection, I don't get paid.
Did I miss something as to what connections would not fit in the boxes?
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
These weren't low voltage lights, were they? Once you get below 50 volts a lot of the conventional NEC regulations for junction boxes, terminations, etc. go away, but if they were regular old 120vac lights, splices outside of a junction box are a no-no.