As I mentioned in my Seeking feedback on Job Application form discussion I’m getting my company geared up for growth and expansion this fall. I made mention that I would post my interview questions guide I use to see what everybody thinks. I use the following list really just as a guide to what kinds areas I want to address and to remind me what kinds of questions will generate the kinds of responses I can make evaluations from. I don’t literally read the questions from the list but instead try to work them in conversational with the person I’m interviewing.
ABILITY TO PLAN TASKS
- Tell me about a big project you had to plan for work
- What was the project? What steps were involved?
- What was the outcome?
ABILITY TO PRIORITIZE
- Tell me about a situation in which you had to do several things in a limited amount of time?
- What led to the situation?
- How did you handle it?
- What was the outcome?
ABILITY TO DELEGATE
- Tell me about a time when you were in charge of a project and had to enlist the help of others?
- Who was involved?
- What did you do?
- How did they respond?
ABILITY TO HANDLE CUSTOMER RELATIONS
- Tell me about a situation in which you had to deal with customers?
- Who was involved?
- What did you do?
- How did they respond?
ABILITY TO BE A TEAM PLAYER
- Tell me about a time you helped resolve a group problem?
- What caused the problem
- What did you do?
- How was it resolved?
ABILITY TO DEAL WITH PERSONNEL AT ALL LEVELS
- Tell me about a time when you had to work closely with someone in a position above (or below you)
- Who was the person?
- What did you have to do?
- What was the outcome?
ABILITY TO PROBLEM SOLVE
- Tell me about the most difficult job or problem you ever had to solve?
- What was the problem
- What steps did you take to tackle it
- What were the results of your efforts?
ABILITY TO APPLY KNOWLEDGE
- Tell me about a situation in which you had to apply some newly acquired knowledge or skill?
- What was that knowledge or skill?
- What led to the situation?
- What were the results?
ABILITY TO ACQUIRE KNOWLEDGE
- Tell me about a situation in which you approached a problem or task you didn’t know anything about
- What kind of knowledge did you need to acquire
- What led to the situation?
- What were the results?
ABILITY TO KNOW LIMITATIONS
- Tell me about a time when you needed outside help and had to ask someone for assistance
- What was the situation?
- Who did you ask for help?
- What was the outcome?
ABILITY TO TAKE INITIATIVE
- Tell me about a time when you had to take charge and start the ball rolling to get a job done?
- What were the ramifications if the job didn’t get done?
- What did you do?
- How did it turn out?
ABILITY TO LEARN ON THE JOB.
- Tell me about a time when you had to learn something new in a short amount of time?
- What created the situation?
- What did you have to learn?
- How did you learn it?
- What was the result?
ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE
- Tell me about A time when someone misunderstood something you had said or written?
- What had you had said or written?
- How did you make yourself clear?
- What was the outcome?
ABILITY TO LISTEN
- Sometimes people listen but don’t hear. Tell me about a time when you misunderstood a subordinate or a superior?
- Why do you think you misunderstood?
- How did you resolve the misunderstanding?
ABILITY FOR COMMITMENT TO WORK
- Tell me about a time when you had to finish a job even though everyone else had given up?
- What was the situation that led up to it?
- How did you manage to finish the job?
ABILITY FOR COMMITMENT TO SERVICE
- Tell me about work you’ve done in your community or in a school organization?
- What did you contribute to the cause?
- How did you balance your time between work and this community activity
- What was the outcome?
So what do you think?
Replies
a) You really want to spend 3 weeks evaluating each
applicant?
b) All this has to be archived in case you get sued
for discrimination or something.
c) What are your objective pass/fail criteria for
EVERY question? re: paragraph B.
d) I wouldn't want to work for you with an interview like that.
e) I used to be in aerospace. Hired many dozens of people.
Typical interview goes like:
Who are you again? I forgot.
The job you're applying for is already filled, but we post
new ones every day. Tell me about yourself.
You want coffee? (10 minutes to get coffee)
This is what we do here. (explain) What can YOU do?
(4 emergency phone calls)
Why the heck do you want to work HERE?
(paged twice. 3 interruptions. More coffee.)
What was your name again?
Tell applicant that you check EVERY reference and do
a background check. (Yes, we always did that).
Random drug tests are required. If they don't turn white
and fall off their chair, could be worth looking at.
Pick some random detail on the application and ask them
to explain it.
Give the applicant a take-home test. Write a 3-page
paper about something you're working on that he has some
experience with. If they can't write well, they're no use.
OK, we'll get back to you.
Only made 3 real bad picks in 20 years. The secretary who was
overwhelmed and went to lunch on her first day, never came back.
The tech who was running his own real estate business out of
the mens room (fired him). A psychotic engineer who had ####big blow up with a customer (fired). I worked mostly in small
companies, but some big ones too. Background check cost
a couple $ hundred. We had a private investigator do them.
Probably one out of 5 applicants did not lie on the application.
You'd be surprised about the stuff they turned up.
Bob- a) You really want to spend 3 weeks evaluating each
applicant?"-- How do you figure three weeks for each applicant?
While I am always hiring and looking for talent there have been times when I
needed to recruit and ran want ads. I would generally plan a schedule where
I would devote about 20 hours a week to meeting with applicants after reviewing
their initial application. The whole process might run for a week to three weeks
and that's a lot of my time spent racking up un-billable hours. Given that lost
revenue the cost of running want ads and other miscellaneous costs I want to
make sure I get it right and pick the correct person.
b) All this has to be archived in case you get sued for
discrimination or something. Yeah, I do keep my all my notes on file.
Both written and digital copy.
c) What are your objective pass/fail criteria for EVERY
question? re: paragraph B. With all do respect what does the pass/fail
criteria that I have for qualifying a candidate have to do with getting "sued
for discrimination or something" so long as I don't base my questions,
criteria, or evaluation on any legally protected status (race, color, religion,
sex, national origin, or age)?
d) I wouldn't want to work for you with an interview
like that. Another friend of mine said that too. That's okay because
the interview is very much an elimination process. Do the questions make you
feel uncomfortable or do you feel they're invasive. Part of my thinking is if
you can't talk with me honestly about these kinds of things in an interview
how will you ever be able to talk about them and work on them over the course
of your employment.
e) I used to be in aerospace. Hired many dozens of people.
Typical interview goes like:....No offense intended but based on the
interview you've described I probably wouldn't want to work for your company
either.
Who are you again? I forgot. Shows me you weren't
prepared for this interview or you are not taking me seriously and you haven't
reviewed my application or resume.
The job you're applying for is already filled, but we
post new ones every day. Your telling me that now you. You could have
called and told me that on the phone and given me the choice as to whether I
wanted to interview based on one of those "new job positions that get posted
every day." I know it different strokes for different folks but that strikes
me a disrespectful and rude.
Tell me about yourself. Way too open ended and it tips me off that you have
no plan, organization, or agenda. I might ask "Well you need to tell me
what you would like to know because I sure %99.9 of what I can "tell you
about myself is irrelevant".
You want coffee? (10 minutes to get coffee)
Wasting my time again!
This is what we do here. (explain) What can YOU do?
They already know what we do here from the pre-application package I sent
them and I know what they can do from the application they filled out.
My time is too valuable to spend time over and over again telling every interviewee
"what we do here" or to wait till the interview to find out what there
technical skill sets are.
In the interview I am interested in learning what can we possibly do together.
"Why the heck do you want to work HERE?"
Sorry but I not sure I really do anymore
"(paged twice. 3 interruptions. More coffee.) What
was your name again?" YOU HAVE REALLY GOT TO BE KIDDING!
If you or anyone said that to me at the end of an interview. I would lie
and make up a name ( probably a Monty Python character), shake your hand and
walk out.
"You have Tell applicant that you check EVERY reference
and do" I tell the applicant that I do check on the references.
I may check on them tomorrow morning or I may check on them during your probationary
period (3 months) if you are hired but I will check.
a background check. (Yes, we always did that).
Random drug tests are required. If they don't turn white and fall off their
chair, could be worth looking at. I have considered that based on one bad experience
but I'm not yet sure it's worth the additional cost yet.
"I Pick some random detail on the application and
ask them to explain it." Yeah I'll do that too. Question if you
don't know enough about the client to remember there name how do know what to
pick out from their application to talk to them about? Is the "not remembering
their name" really just part of an act to make it seem like you low key
and indifferent? That doesn't work for me at all.
Give the applicant a take-home test. Write a 3-page paper
about something you're working on that he has some experience with. If they
can't write well, they're no use. While I do value good writing a skills
I wont rule an artisan out on a lack of good writing skills. A manager yes,
but not necessarily and an artisan. Asking them to write 3-pages is also out.
The last page of my application
form says:
I've given them a page and several applicants over the years have attached
extra pages to it. It's not a requirement, one page-two pages- or three pages,
it's an "opportunity". If they use it it tells me something, if they
don't that tells me something too.
OK, we'll get back to you. I tell then when and
how I will contact them.
Thanks again for help and criticism Bob.
Good and bad it all helps me sort all of this out.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
On the one hand, I have to agree with Bob in that the questions all seem to be designed to stretch the limits of an applicant. The whole set-up seems a bit extreme..... But, they are all good questions that'll help you weed out the bad in a quick way.
In the labor market right now, I tend to find out about someone through the grapevine and I usually know what level of skill they possess based on referals and references provided before we meet. Then, I conduct the "interveiw" over lunch.
You can find out a lot about a person over a meal. Like if he's a slob. If he has manners. If he knows how to use a napkin. And over a meal, those questions that seem so intrusive in a formal interveiw become more of a conversation, an exchange of information, which is exactly what I want from this person down the road.
I mean, we are talking about hiring a tradeperson, someone we need to depend on to perform work, behave in a way that's productive and will give me information with out be grilled for it, right?
I know this won't work for an outfit that has a high turnover rate or likes to interveiw 20 dozen people for one position, but that not the kind of outfit I run. But, Jerrald, your outline is helpful and give me good angles to direct future "conversations". Thanks for posting them.
Mark McDonnell- "On the one hand, I have to agree
with Bob in that the questions all seem to be designed to stretch the limits
of an applicant. The whole set-up seems a bit extreme....". Funny
but "extreme" is a word I have often heard others use to describe
me. I am intense and I know it. Because of that I would say about 20-25% of
the work we do is stuff we've never done before that I'm exploring fro the first
time so there is a lot of pressure to "learn and get it right" doing
our projects. The emotional returns are really great but it's definitely not
for everybody. Once upon a time I had even thought "Extreme Wood &
Metal Works" was a kool name.
I like that though,-"stretch the limits of an applicant"
because I know we will stretch you on the job.
"In the labor market right now, I tend to find out
about someone through the grapevine and I usually know what level of skill
they possess based on referals and references provided before we meet."
That's an answer to my next set of questions on "mining and recruiting
talent". Unfortunately the grapevine is sort of tight lipped in this labor
market. Everyone protects their talent pools tightly. I do think there are ways
to get around that though and I hope to throw out some of my ideas on that real
soon too.
"I conduct the "interview" over lunch....You
can find out a lot about a person over a meal." You sure can. I
really do think that's a great idea only I'm already overweight and working
hard to work it off. If I get into an interview period like I described above
where it at least 20 hours a week that could add up to a billion calories a
week!! Seriously, I do think it's a good idea and would really help put a canidate
at ease if you can afford the time to conduct interviews that way.
Thanks a lot for your input Mark.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
Different situations, different jobs, different personalities.
My interview process reflects the job environment. Hectic,
change gears every few minutes, indifferent and hostile
customers (The Government). If the applicant got through
the interview, there was a chance. I don't agree about the
writing test. Even for artisans, of which I hired many, the
quality of writing shows a lot about the person. Organizational
skills, reasoning ability, etc. Brings out aspects that may
not show in the interview. Many people don't interview well
because of the pressure. Have hired many people who did
not interview well based on their written example. My
personnel people actually had a set of objective evaluation
criteria for my interview process. There ARE people who will
sue, claiming they answered all the questions "right".
Then you have to spend time going over the written criteria
and writing an answer for the lawyers. That happened a couple
times. Both hiring and firing criteria need to be in writing
to protect yourself against the occasional incident. Then you
can trot them out as needed.
My interview reflects the work environment. Based on your
interview, I would expect a methodical, detail-oriented,
sit-in-your-cube-all-day, tightly-supervised job. That's
not the sort of thing I can live with for an extended period.
I was a systems engineer. A sort of "hired gun" who came in
and poked holes in things. Appearances are what people go by.
In a room full of gray suits, I was the one wearing Mickey Mouse
ears and a T-shirt that said "Bull Shirt". The general perception
was that if I had enough guts to get away with that, I must
know what I'm doing when I poke holes in their multi-billion
dollar system. Not just another gray suit. Backed with
30 years experience and a couple degrees, that was true.
They often had their own people say the same thing, but they
were not believed because they were just another gray suit.
I wanted my interviews to be like working there, not an
antiseptic separate process. Gives me a chance to see how
they act, what they know. Interviews were in my office when
possible. Answers the two basic questions: Do they have
the skills I need? Can they function with ME in MY environment?
Some folks were just hired for the back room; analytics, production.
Some were needed to share the "hot seat" with me and had to
take the direct pressure. I wanted to make sure all had some
picture of me just as I was evaluating them. Interviews were
never across the table in a nice clean conference room.
If your interview gives a taste of the actual environment
and of your personality, you will get the people you want.
If not, you get people who are skilled at passing the interview
process rather than skilled at the job in question.
Most people, even people who are great employees with good experience, don't do to well to situation interviews.
The answers to this type of question is called a SAR (situation, action, result) and is an interview technique. Everytime the person (employer) who interviews you mentions a topic or skill that relates to your field, you throw out a SAR to show them your experience. I use to have 2-3 SARs for every topic/skill imaginable that dealt with my profession and I wrote them down on flash cards and memorized them. It makes interviewing a breeze.
I once did an interview that was completely situation type questions. It was 1.5 hours long and the person who gave the interview just simply read the questions from a piece of paper and took some notes while I answered. I was getting really bored and felt that as long as you could come up with an answer they where happy, plus how in the world can you verify something that they say and who in there right mind would answer one of these questions with a negative result. I didn't want to work for them because of the way they where handling the interview plus for a couple other reasons that dealt with the job itself, so about half way through, I just started to make up stuff, anything. I was really having a good time developing all these scenarios that challenged me to the fullest and how I came up with all these ingenius solutions and had great outcomes. Every now and then, I would tell her that I didn't have an answer or hadn't delt with that type of situation before. None of them where true but I could see me doing it. They where so impressed that they offered me a job later that day. I turned them down and they then offered me more money and a bigger bonus, but I still turned them down, I took a different job later that week.
These type of questions only test how well someone can think on there feet.
Sean-"...and the person who gave the interview just
simply read the questions from a piece of paper and took some notes while I
answered." As I mentioned at the start that's exactly what I
don't do. I ask the questions in the course of conversation.
"These type of questions only test how well someone
can think on there feet." Yup and that's exactly what I am looking
for and that's exactly why I am asking them. I want people that can think
for themselves and problem solve. I'm not looking for robots, I'm looking to
find vibrant sentient cogent human beings
Your commentary sounds pejorative. Do you really think that kind of questioning
is bad? What kinds of questions would you ask to hire remodelers and artisans?
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
" I ask the questions in the course of conversation."
Thats good but if I was interviewing and the person kept asking me the same type of question over and over (Tell me about a time.........etc) it gets boring real quick and anytime I see someone trying to cover it all or taking a shotgun approach I don't get a good feeling that the person interviewing is certain they know what they are looking for.
""These type of questions only test how well someone can think on there feet." Yup and that's exactly what I am looking for and that's exactly why I am asking them. I want people that can think for themselves and problem solve. I'm not looking for robots, I'm looking to find vibrant sentient cogent human beings"
In my mind it only means that a person can think of a story that fits the question. Its the same thing when someone takes a personality test and answers the questions so that the outcome is the way they want it.
"Your commentary sounds pejorative. Do you really think that kind of questioning is bad? What kinds of questions would you ask to hire remodelers and artisans?"
It may come across as pejorative (had to look that one up :) ) but I think that most people ask these questions for one reason where the answer to the question answers a completely different question. Just because someone can tell a story about how they handled a situation and had a great outcome doesn't mean that it is true. Plus, most people can't think of what to say so you will pass over people who may be exactly what you are looking for. If you want to know how they handle a situation then ask them a scenario question, if you just want to see if they can think up a story quick then ask them a situation question. Most people will answer the scenario question honestly because it pertains more to there personality and ethics and you can ask specific questions that pertain directly to the job.
From all the true artisans that I know, these type of questions would just turn them off. They are more interested in the creation of the work etc.....
One time I was doing a consulting job for a shoe company, they designed sport shoes. As I am waiting in the lobby, in walks this guy with blue hair and he has this kids backpack on of some type of dinosaur. I found out later this guy was the head designer. In other words, every job entails a different type of person, no set interview plan works all the time, taylor the interview to the job and the type of person that is best for that particular job.
Most of the tradesmen that I know personally are mostly of the type of come on out, bring your tools and lets see what you got.
Maybe we have a different outlook because we work in different fields. I work in engineering and once you find that person with the right education and experience, it is really easy to assess their technical knowledge and then all I really care about is their attitude and if they make a good fit socially in the company.
I applaud your effort, you seem like a very professional person who is trying to benefit their company from all avenues.
Just don't interview someone for laborer as if they are interviewing for a upper managment job with a fortune 500 company :) Only do the absolute minimum to obtain the desired outcome.
What is your opinion on drug testing?
What is your opinion on drug testing?
When I was young and foolish, I tested many drugs.
Now that I am working in construction, with a family and a mortgage, I have too many responsibilities to test drugs any more so I just stick to drugs with a proven track record.
This response always gets you out of a interview in time for happy hour!
:^)
Good luck finding good people !
Mr TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
Mr T I liked that one. I will have to remember that response and make it a part of my own repertoire.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
27SEAN-"From all the true artisans that I know,
these type of questions would just turn them off. They are more interested in
the creation of the work etc....." No offense intended at all Sean
( because I do appreciate the feedback) but somewhere either here or on the
JLC site you wrote something that when I read it I thought "geez you don't
understand the artist mentality at all" (Artist being a close relative
of Artisan). Somewhere back in the Who
will build the future? discussion I think you revealed that you were an
engineer I whimsically thought "well that explains everything now".
Nothing wrong with that at all but I think you an I do come from different ends
of the spectrum. I was trained and a theatrical set and light designer and scene
painter so I am an artist at my core. A creative type.
Those are the kinds of questions I would enjoy being asked because they would
give me a great opportunity to illustrate and showcase my talents. I have friends
that have interviewed at IDEO and Industrial Light & Magic and I based my
interview techniques on what I've learned from them. I didn't make those questions
up out of the blue. They came from the research I did on hiring and interviewing
techniques and I selected and modified for my purposes the techniques and question
the real experts had recommended.
I see this discussion as being very constructive and instructive though because
it's important to understand how all types of people might react to that
kind of line of questioning not just artisans and artists.
However if you really do know for sure that "all
the true artisans that I know, these type of questions would just turn them
off. They are more interested in the creation of the work etc.." is
true, then what kinds of question or line of questioning do you use with them
that will give you an insight in to how they will perform act and mesh on the
job. What questions would you ask? How would you do it then?
"...this guy with blue hair and he has this kids
backpack on of some type of dinosaur. I found out later this guy was the head
designer." Yeah I know the type, I see them all the time, and I
work with them too. Geez I went to SUNY Purchase where that guy would have been
considered uptight conservative dresser! You should see me in my mural clothes.
"taylor the interview to the job and the type of
person that is best for that particular job." I think I've done
exactly that. What makes you think I haven't done that? Really I am interested
in finding those kinds of things out. My Company Culture is based on my personality
so while I am not looking for clones I am looking for complimentary people who
will mesh and relate in harmony, not dissonance, in a ParadigmProjects work
environment.
Most of the tradesmen that I know personally are mostly
of the type of come on out, bring your tools and lets see what you got.
Yeah I know a lot of them too but if I am going to attract and recruit talent
that already have jobs that strategy just wont work at all. What are they going
to quit a job they have to work an audition period with us? I don't think so.
That method also doesn't reveal anything regarding how they might react in a
particular situation or environment until it actually happens in real time and
then if their reaction is the wrong one it's too late to do anything about it.
We designed and built a A 30,000 square foot exhibit to feature 25 Life-size
of Dinamations Robot Dinosaurs in natural surroundings for the Meadowlands Convention
Center years ago and because when we were contracted to do the job we had such
a narrow window of time to get it done we hired everyone who applied for a job
working on that project. Some people made it only through a day. Some of them
we kept on with us after that project was completed. The problem was there was
a tremendous amount of waste in that method.
You might hire a muralist because of their great portfolio only to discover
halfway through their first day that they can't paint your design, they can
only paint their own visions. You might hire an excellence house roof framing
carpenter to frame the skeleton frames of your mountains, volcano, and calderas
only to discover that he can't comprehend that unlike a typical roof, on our
set the rafters constantly change pitch and starting points back and forth to
simulate real geography (he couldn't think out of his box). I could go on and
on with seventy plus stories like that for everyone on this project.
Had I had just one or two extra months in the schedule where I could have interviewed
these people I could have done a much better job of designing our workforce
and the project would not nearly have been as chaotic as it was.
"Maybe we have a different outlook because we work
in different fields". Yeah I think that's exactly it but I have
to work with engineers to and I can even envision us hiring our own engineers
one day too so that's why it's so important for me to understand a contrasting
point of view like yours.
"...and then all I really care about is their attitude
and if they make a good fit socially in the company." And just
how do you determine that. What kind of questioning methods do you adopt
to give you the answers to that?
"I applaud your effort, you seem like a very professional
person who is trying to benefit their company from all avenues"- .
Yeah, thanks, I appreciate that. I am working real hard at it but it sure ain't
easy. Is it?
"Just don't interview someone for laborer as if
they are interviewing for a upper management job with a fortune 500 company"
-Well I understand that and while we'll never be a Fortune 500 Company
I do have a BHAG (Big Hairy Audacious Goal, an expression coined by James Collins
& Jerry Porras in their book Built
to Last: Successful Habits of Visionary Companies) of one day making the
INC 500 list.
What is your opinion on drug testing? That's a
whole other story that I'll have to get back to ya on some other time.
Thanks again for your input. It all works to make me think.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
First, you are going to have to tell me how to change the color of the text. It makes it a lot easier to quote text etc.....
"I think you revealed that you were an engineer I whimsically thought "well that explains everything now". Nothing wrong with that at all but I think you an I do come from different ends of the spectrum. I was trained and a theatrical set and light designer and scene painter so I am an artist at my core. A creative type. "
I did a couple plays in highschool and am a poet at heart, does that count for anything :)
I always get a kick when people equate engineer to being uncreative. Engineers are just as creative, but what they create is not looked at as something that the general public would look at as something that is artistic. Also, when you are confined to certain rules or policies or boundaries that define whether a product or a system is successful, you have to be creative to seek and find unconvential ways of solving problems and at the same time staying within those said boundaries. To make it even more of a challenge, most of the time, if not all the time, those limits are forced on you unwillingly. There is no blank canvas that we can just do anything that are heart or soul desires without having any concern at all with pleasing other people.
""taylor the interview to the job and the type of person that is best for that particular job." I think I've done exactly
that. What makes you think I haven't done that? Really I am interested in finding those kinds of things out. My
Company Culture is based on my personality so while I am not looking for clones I am looking for complimentary
people who will mesh and relate in harmony, not dissonance, in a ParadigmProjects work environment. "
Just my opinion, but it seems to me that you are trying to cover EVERYTHING instead of just concentrating on the key issues that are really important for each particular position you are interviewing for. I don't know, maybe you are just listing all the questions but you don't ask them all.
"You might hire a muralist because of their great portfolio only to discover halfway through their first day that they can't paint your design, they can only paint their own visions"
If that is what is important to you, then why not just ask the applicant point blank, The job requires that you must be able to paint designs that will differ from your own vision (maybe at this time you can also show him samples of past work and maybe you discuss the vision behind these designs), can you do it?
Follow up question might be when he/she answers yes, how do you do it, what is your approach? and what would you do if you where on the job having difficulty accomplishing it?
This is a scenario question and most people will have no problem answering this question because when they hear it the first thing they start to think about is how will they handle this scenario. This is what is important, isn't it? If you ask them, tell me a time that you had to design a project that wasn't your own vision? they will immediately only think about trying to recall a specific situation that fits that criterea, they will not be thinking about how they actually handle that situation. There is a big difference.
"You might hire an excellence house roof framing
carpenter to frame the skeleton frames of your mountains, volcano, and calderas only to discover that he can't
comprehend that unlike a typical roof, on our set the rafters constantly change pitch and starting points back and
forth to simulate real geography (he couldn't think out of his box). "
Again, why not just ask the person point blank if they can do it, then show them an example and ask them to tell you to walk you through how they would accomplish this. It is practical and what really is important is that he demonstrates his skill of being able to build this multi-pitch roof structure. No reason to ask him, tell me about a time you had to frame a roof that was uncovential with multi pitch rafters etc...... The applicant will be racking his brain thinking about a specific experience and might just say, I can't remember a time doing that, I don't know. So in the end you only find out that he can't remember a specific situation but you never get to hear his approach to accomplishing the task.
""Maybe we have a different outlook because we work in different fields". Yeah I think that's exactly it but I have to
work with engineers to and I can even envision us hiring our own engineers one day too so that's why it's so
important for me to understand a contrasting point of view like yours."
Don't sweat it. In my opinion you are so nit picky, organized and have such a thirst for detail you will get along just fine. I am surprised at how organized you are, all the artists that I know aren't organized at all, very care free etc..
""...and then all I really care about is their attitude and if they make a good fit socially in the company." And just
how do you determine that. What kind of questioning methods do you adopt to give you the answers to that?"
I just simply ask them. Example, you are working on a project with someone that you don't personally get along with, how do you cope with this? what is your approach? what would you do if it just got to be too much? I think the answer will be much more informative then if I asked, Tell me about a time you worked on a project with someone that you didn't get along with? Most people are going to sit there trying to think about a specific event in their life and most people will not be able to just spit out an answer.
""I applaud your effort, you seem like a very professional person who is trying to benefit their company from all
avenues"- . Yeah, thanks, I appreciate that. I am working real hard at it but it sure ain't easy. Is it?"
It is never easy at first or when doing something new.
"What is your opinion on drug testing? That's a whole other story that I'll have to get back to ya on some other
time."
I only asked the question because I am just interested in what you think about it. No need to answer if you aren't comfortable with letting the whole public know your thoughts :)
One last thing,
After I took that situation interview I started to never answer any situation question direct. If some one asks me, Tell me about a time you where (pick your favorite situation).... I usually turn the question into a scenario and answer,
if I was in a situation that (then just repeat the situation) I would handle it in this way etc..... After I get done telling the interviewer how I would handle the situation usually two things happen. One, the person is satisfied because what they really want to know is how I would handle the situation, not that I can think of a specific experience, and two, by talking about how I would handle the situation it usually jogs my memory of a specific experience that relates to it because I want to use an example to further explain my point of view and then I can throw that out on the table too.
I started to do this because I wanted to see if the person interviewing really wanted to know the answer to the question or if they wanted to see if I could just think of an experience from my past. I have never had someone ask me to explain a specific incident if I didn't all ready tell them about one so I would say most people are just interested in how I would handle the situation.
What if you found out that the applicant was just making up experiences to your questions but you liked how he handled the situations because his approach and solutions to the problems where exactly what you where looking for. What would you think?
By the way, all the artists that I know are poets, muscians/singers ,actors, writers, painters and sculpturers that have nothing to do with construction so maybe that makes a difference, I don't know, I am just an uncreative engineer :^) . Could also be that I live in southern california :)
Part of the problem might be that you work in a very specialized field and are looking for different types of employees then someone who does kitchen and bath remodels or additions. just a thought.
27SEAN-First, you are going to have to tell me how to change the color
of the text. It makes it a lot easier to quote text etc..... Sean just yesterday
I think it was I wrote this in reply to someone else who asked the same thing
in another
discussion.
If your on a Mac you are pretty much out of luck unless you have a HTML Editor
like DW or Adobe GoLive. If your on a Windows platform then all you need to
do is run the latest version of MS Internet Explorer to be compatible with the
Prospero system software WYSIWYG tools.
You notice that over on JLC where they don't have much at all in the way of
"forum tools" when I am quoting someone else I always bracket what
they are saying like this: ---"the text I am quoting"--- . That one
of the technical reasons I'm not to fond of the JLC forums, they're too clumsy
and slow.
I always get a kick when people equate engineer to being
uncreative. Engineers are just as creative, but what they create is not looked
at as something that the general public would look at as something that is artistic.
I don't mean "really" to equate engineering with a lack of or absence
of creativity and I also get annoyed when people peg artist types like myself
as having a lock on creativity too. If they think that then they don't know
much about what "creativity" really is but hey that's a whole other
discussion. There is a however an engineering archetype or stereotype we can
think of and imagine at times when we are talking about them (youze guys). The
"artist" archetype or stereotype I was using was what me might more
likely recognized if I used the term "artiste" (a person with
artistic pretension).
The archetypal or stereotypical differences between engineers and artists I
was thinking of are "engineers are more definitive and mechanistic whereas
the artist is more abstract and fluid. Just generalizations, but sometimes you
have to use them because you can't discuss all the details down to the minutest
levels. Do you think a generalization like "artists generalize whereas
engineers develop down to minute details" has any validity? Do you think
"engineers might be prone to micro-manage while an artist will manage very
broadly and/or loosely (macro-manage) or not manage at all " ?
Just my opinion, but it seems to me that you are trying
to cover EVERYTHING instead of just concentrating on the key issues that are
really important for each particular position you are interviewing for. I don't
know, maybe you are just listing all the questions but you don't ask them all.
---No I usually don't ask them all. I only ask the ones I feel I need to know
with regard to the particular individual. Good point , good pickup. But I am
prepared for a wide variety of contingencies.
If that is what is important to you, then why not just
ask the applicant point blank, The job requires that you must be able to paint
designs that will differ from your own vision (maybe at this time you can also
show him samples of past work and maybe you discuss the vision behind these
designs), can you do it? Because ideally rather than trying to fit the
person to a job I would rather design and fit the job to the person. I think
that's a much better approach in today's talent market and my reading and research
bears that out so far.
Also the example I used with a mural artist and roof framer not being able
to do the task they were first assigned in our Dinosaur Exhibit project was
an example of what happens when you don't have time to interview or learn about
an applicant properly. As I said:
We just moved them around till we found a task or set of tasks that they could
work well with but all that amounts to a lot of wasted time and effort.
What if you found out that the applicant was just making
up experiences to your questions but you liked how he handled the situations
because his approach and solutions to the problems where exactly what you where
looking for. What would you think? If someone can invent personal stories
around the those question on the fly improvising and inventing them during the
course of the interview don't you think that that person if incredibly talented
and creative? If if they come up with the right answers that you were looking
for too then that also means that they know and are familiar with the techniques
of managing and working with people that you are looking for.
I am sure that 100% of all the people I have interviewed over the years have
enhanced or embellish their stories at times to frame themselves in a better
light so in reality it all a matter of judging them all on some kind of relative
"authenticity" scale.
By the way, all the artists that I know are poets, muscians/singers
,actors, writers, painters and sculpturers that have nothing to do with construction
so maybe that makes a difference, I don't know, I am just an uncreative engineer
:^) . Could also be that I live in southern california :) It's not the
engineering thing, your all messed up because you live in Southern California.
What a strange exotic place that must be. Part of the
problem might be that you work in a very specialized field and are looking for
different types of employees then someone who does kitchen and bath remodels
or additions. Yeah that true I am trying to build a "company
of specialists" which I can then mix match and deploy in different groups
or teams to meet project requirement across a wide variety of fields. From
interior millwork to themed environments like trade shows and exhibits, from
luxury homes to restaurants and high-end retail (I could go on but I'm still
working on organizing and writing that all out as part of my business plan.)
I want us to be the "go to guys" for unique, exotic, and esoteric
finished environments. That's going to take a very interesting eclectic
mix of people to accomplish that.
It amazing how much all this writing, questioning, debating, revising, and
refining helps organize and sort his out. It's all been incredibly helpful so
far.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
I don't think I'd be as hard on you as Bob was. But that sure is a heck of a lot of serious questions. I think getting raked over the coals like that would make me feel more like I was in a police interrogation than an interview.
I don't object to this type of questioning - Just think you have too many.
Also - Might be better to work with hypothetical situations. Like instead of asking: "Tell me about a big project you had to plan for" ask them: "How do you plan for big projects?" That way they don't have to remember a specific circumstance. Sometimes it takes me a while to think of a specific event that matched a certain set of criteria.
Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to use the Net and he won't bother you for weeks.
Geez, Jerald, I got nervous just READING those questions. I guess the thing I'd say is that you'd be repeatedly asking the applicant to talk about his or her self. And lots of people aren't comfortable doing that. I think it would be awfully easy miss the opportunity to hire someone who might turn out to be a terrific employee, just because they didn't interview well.
All those traits you're looking for are important, no doubt. But I question whether you can adequately evaluate them in a person based on what amounts to an oral exam.
Bottom line in carpentry is still what you produce, not how well you write, orate, or answer questions under pressure. But I don't mean this as criticism, you asked what people thought and I just thought I'd chime in. I'll go back to lurking now.
Thanks Jim-...I guess the thing I'd say is that you'd
be repeatedly asking the applicant to talk about his or her self.
And lots of people aren't comfortable doing that." Geez at the risk
of sounding redundant ya don't just sit there and read the questions. THEY ARE
A GUIDE. A REMINDER THAT IN THE NEXT 30 TO 40 MINUTES THAT I AM TALKING TO THIS
PERSON THESE ARE THE THINGS I WANT TO FIND OUT ANSWERS TO. I can't believe all
you people can't envision how that's done.
When you (plural, not just you Jim) interview people do you all just sit there
in silence and wait for the applicant to start talking?
If the the person starts to talk about the bright red bicycle they had when
they were in third grade do you ask a question to redirect them to tell you
about something related to the job they are interviewing for or do you just
let them ramble on?
How do you find out anything? Do you guys ask any questions at all? WHAT
THE HECK ARE THEY?
If "And lots of people aren't comfortable doing
that." is true, then what are they comfortable with?
"I think it would be awfully easy miss the opportunity
to hire someone who might turn out to be a terrific employee, just because they
didn't interview well." How would you still know they make a good
employee at all if you don't ask them anything? What criteria that would
make them a great employee would I or could I miss?
I am not hiring people based solely on their conversational interviewing
skills. Sure that's a plus in a people-customer oriented field like remodeling.
But it's not the sole criteria I am considering. Primarily I want to know how
the person handles a variety of situations that I think they may face in the
course of employment with ParadigmProjects. I seriously doubt the potential
great employee would slide by because he stuttered stammered or whatever. Really
I can't imagine how that could happen.
Really I must not have a clue what a lot of you guys are doing that I am not.
PLEASE TELL ME. Bob and Mark McDonnell have been the only one who been able
to really articulate their methods and styles to me. I may not have liked Bobs
at all and I am sure it wouldn't work at all for me as I explained above, but
at least it was constructive for me to hear.
"...I question whether you can adequately evaluate
them in a person based on what amounts to an oral exam." Oral
exam is a bad choice of word I think. Like I've said over and over, IT'S A CONVERSATION.
I you can't "adequately evaluate them"
based on on:
the information provided in the job
application
a person to person interview
a résumé (if they provide one)
a cover letter (if they provide one)
a picture portfolio ((if they provide one)
references
then what can you use to evaluate them?
Really I don't have a clue what a lot of you guys are doing that I am not.
PLEASE TELL ME. Bob and Mark McDonnell have been the only one who been able
to really articulate their methods and styles to me. I may not have liked Bobs
at all and I am sure it wouldn't work at all for me as I explained above, but
at least it was constructive for me to hear.
Bottom line in carpentry is still what you produce, not
how well you write, orate, or answer questions under pressure. Nah
I absolutely gotta disagree with you on that one. But maybe it's the different
terminology we are using. I think of my people as designers builders and artisans
and it says that all over our marketing material. If I am going to hire a carpenter
based solely on what he or she produces then I also have to hire a Customer
Service Representative to to work with that carpenter that has no people or
communication skills.
My customers are not just by a stair balustrade, a mural, or a entryway.
They
are buying an experience.
An
experience with my company!
A year ago I had a carpenter working for me who I hired based on his sheer
overwhelming talent. Problem was he couldn't talk to clients and he couldn't
even talk to his coworkers. His antisocial negativity prevented the crew on
that project from ever developing any kind of "esprit de corps". You
tell me what's better 4 guys working alone all on the same house or 4 guys working
as a team?
How well a person communicates is vitally important and in my book may be the
most important thing I will not make the mistake I made with that guy ever again.
I work with guys all the time that don't speak any English that communicate
better than he did!
In another
discussion I described a guy who had all the requisite skills I needed and
in the lot of maybe 20 applicants that I met with and he was certainly technically
the most well suited for the kitchen millwork installations we were doing as
the bulk of our work at that time. I wrote there:
Should I have hired that guy? If I recall correctly I think that was one of
the times I spent money on running want ads and I ended up not hiring anyone.
I've been reading your stuff for a long time Jim and you've earned a lot of
my respect over all that time. I would really have a hard time believing that
you would hire a carpenter based solely and exclusively on their carpentry skills.
Think about it for a moment.
"But I don't mean this as criticism, you asked what
people thought and I just thought I'd chime in. I'll go back to lurking
now." No I like criticism. I want feedback. I want to hear all the
good and the bad stuff. That's how I learn and how I test the validity my ideas
and thinking. Geez, I've been at this twenty six years and it feel like only
in the last six or so have I really been starting to get the hang of the business
as a business.
Thanks for your comments Jim you got me thinking about the "experience
with my company" part of branding again and that reminded me of a few other
things I had to think about too.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
I've done a LOT of job interviewing; and, being in a large corporation at the time, went to many training sessions to learn how to conduct job interviews. I didn't see if you had attended some of these training sessions to obtain your question list or if you pulled the questions from somewhere without the "teaching" that goes with them ? Experienced managers find it quite amusing to be confronted with these questions when switching jobs within a a company, or when interviewing for post-retirement jobs. Sometimes we'd help them out by letting them know they'd left out a question. But in the end, an inexperienced interviewer just has more data they can't interpret, or worse, they reject good candidates through bad interpretation while experienced interviewers continually make good hiring judgements based on comfortable conversations.
In any case, while this may be a good crib for selecting how to ellicit the points out of this set that are actually critical skills for the job being offered; most of this is a test for management candidates or senior technical staffers and not blue-collar workers. For blue-collars they merely need to know how to do the job, how to take instruction, and how to get along with your style and their coworkers.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Phill -I didn't see if you had attended some of these
training sessions to obtain your question list or if you pulled the questions
from somewhere without the "teaching" that goes with them ?
Good point. Getting the education and training is important. Most of
what I've learned has come from reading several books on the subject but I also
have also attended two seminars on the subject too where we actually practiced
some of this stuff in role playing situations that was incredibly helpful.
Experienced managers find it quite amusing to be confronted
with these questions when switching jobs within a a company, or when interviewing
for post-retirement jobs. I think that's another great point you bring
up here Phill but I'm really not getting any of those kinds of people applying
for jobs with me right now (or have I ever) although it would be great if I
did and I would hope to sometime in the near future.
I would however think that I would be able to pretty quickly realize that I
was talking with a different kind of person altogether than the typical tradesperson-artisan
that we all know and recognize. If someone like that came along I would approach
any interview with an entirely different mindset. A mindset that I was looking
for mentoring qualities and abilities in that person. (I am actually very actively
researching and looking for certain kinds of advisors and mentors to address
my personal and business ambitions needs and goals. That would make another
good topic for discussion here don't you think?)
"...most of this is a test for management candidates
or senior technical staffers and not blue-collar workers. For blue-collars they
merely need to know how to do the job, how to take instruction, and how to get
along with your style and their coworkers." No on that issue I have
to disagree with you adamantly and that's probably why the building and remodeling
industry is lagging behind a lot of other business segments.
That's really conservative old world thinking that that flies in the face of
everything you read in the magazines like Fast Company, Inc, Business 2.0 and
the Harvard Business Review. Tom Peters, Peter Senge, John Case, Jack Stack,
Michael Hammer or Peter Drucker ( to name a few) would love the opportunity
to take anyone to task on thinking like that.
They all talk about this being the dawn of the age of The Knowledge Worker
and to think that "blue-collars they merely need
to know how to do the job, how to take instruction" is like saying
"that applies to other industries but not Building and Remodeling."
That's insane! I hear that kind of thinking a lot but so far no one has ever
been able to explain to me why Knowledge Worker can't or will never apply to
this industry. Sure there will always be pure-blue-collar-work and even t-shirt-work
but the ratio of Blue-Collar-Work to Knowledge Work is changing, and will change
even faster over time. The contractors that don't address that or even think
about that are dinosaurs waiting for extinction.
A lot of this is why I brought up the topic Who
Will Build the Future and that kind of thinking is why we are NOT attracting
any our our indigenous American youth in to this industry.
Self-managing workers and or self-managing teams are what we have to think
about for our future. Like I've said earlier: "I'm not looking for robots,
I'm looking to find vibrant sentient cogent human beings."
I want people that can think for themselves and problem solve so I can work
on other stuff rather than having to tell them how to do everything all the
time!
I don't want to have to stand there watching them over their shoulders to
make sure they don't say something stupid to a client.
I don't want people who stand around waiting me me to figure out what they
should be working on next when they finish a task.
...eh,.... that's just my opinion but I gonna stick with it. I can think of
a few ( just a few) people who would agree with me on that topic at least.
Anyone else out there right now think like that too?
Thanks for your help Phill.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
Having spoken to Druker and Peters one-on-one, I think you may be over-stating their case. The questions you've posed are all driven by experience: the experience of having been in positions to have exercised these skills, the experience/education to deal with the situations, and, the experience/education to be articulate them in proper terms - a lot of fine craftsmen wouldn't interview well on these questions, even if they have the skills. As for the rest, you have to incorporate that into what you feel is "do the job".
But, IMHO, you hire on character and skills; and, if you hire too many potential chiefs and not enough happy indians you are buying trouble..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Phill- Having spoken to Druker and Peters one-on-one,
I think you may be over-stating their case. Nah I don't think so at all
Phill. Not by a long shot but it wont be the first or the last time we'll disagree.
The questions you've posed are all driven by experience:
the experience of having been in positions to have exercised these skills, the
experience/education to deal with the situations, and, the experience/education
to be articulate them in proper terms. That true to an extent but there
are exceptions and variations to that too. To use a metaphor what about the
great baseball player (fine craftsmen) who naturally makes a great baseball
manager? You'll argue well he gained that "experience" with years
of big league experience watching other managers work (Joe Torre). But what
about an Earl Weaver who never played a single major league game?
The are natural leaders and natural managers just as there are natural musicians
and natural carpenters too.
- a lot of fine craftsmen wouldn't interview well on
these questions, even if they have the skills. Yeah that's true so what
do you do then? Not ask any questions of anybody at all and just roll dice?
There will always be cracks to fall through everywhere in life. With my list
I try to be prepared across as wide spectrum of possibilities as I can so that
I adapt my interviewing style and method to meet the personality and situation
at hand. What kinds of questions or questioning would you be asking to catch
those "fine craftsmen wouldn't interview well on
these questions, even if they have the skills"????
"But, IMHO, you hire on character and skills"
Absolutely, you certainly do and I think those questions are designed to help
expose and reveal character. "and, if you hire too
many potential chiefs and not enough happy indians you are buying trouble."
And I know that too although I think it's a "spectrum" Phill. It's
not just a black-and-white either you're-either-a-manager-or-your-not type of
situation. In fact it's a matrix and people fall in all sorts of different points
in that matrix or spectrum. And people also grow, change, and develop.
I just got done reading First
Among Equals: How to Manage a Group of Professionals by McKenna & Maister
and it was about just about being prepared for what you are cautioning about.
There's a kool web site that supplements the book too at http://FirstAmongEquals.com.
The section of the site Interactions>The
Lighter Side has some great amusing parable type stories there too.
Then again if you have all Indians and not enough Chiefs or no Chiefs at all
you are in a hell of a mess too. The key I guess is developing and maintaining
balance.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
" I want people that can think for themselves and problem solve so I can work on other stuff rather than
having to tell them how to do everything all the time!
I don't want to have to stand there watching them over their shoulders to make sure they don't say
something stupid to a client."
I don't want people who stand around waiting me me to figure out what they should be working on next when
they finish a task."
In my field, these people are usually called managers who are very highly paid with big bonuses and benefits. They get to do all those things that you mentioned above that you don't want to do. Most workers who are just getting an average wage with probably no room for growth or advancement just want to be told what to do. Why should they take the risk if there is no reward? There has to be a real incentive and that incentive has to be above and beyond what they would get if all they did is exactly what they where told at any other job and the incentive/goal has to be within a realistic reach.
Some of the best companies that I have worked for have been "up or out" companies. They give you a quantifiable goal for the projects with a set of resources and leave the rest up to you. You either reach those goals and get promoted or you are out. They pay top, top dollar with nice bonuses and the amount of salary and raises that you will get are all out in the open for everybody to see. No body is thinking that they will put out all this hard work and then not get anything for it. You know that if you do the work and are succussful that you are going to get this much pay with this much raise etc..... With this system people are very motivated as long as the goal is realistic.
I really liked the fact that I wasn't just working hard all year long on some blind faith assumption that I might get a raise, bonus or a promotion. I new exactly what I was getting, when I was going to get it and what I needed to do to get it.
Another thing that also works great is when the company takes the time and money to invest in there employees through training.
You do not have to be a big company to offer these types of benefits. My last job was with a consulting company that only had 7 employees including the owner and they offered a lot. Of course the business has to be generating the revenue required. In the end it all comes down to money.
What do you do, or plan to do in the future,in your company to motivate workers to be independent? You can hire people that are independent workers but keeping them that way is an entirely different issue.
I really hope that your company grows the way you want, it is always nice to see someone be succussful after they have invested so much effort into it.
Jerrald,
Just a couple of thoughts, questions and reactions to your thread......
I want people that can think for themselves and problem solve so I can work on other stuff rather than having to tell them how to do everything all the time!
You have just described an excellent sub-contractor.
"I don't want to have to stand there watching them over their shoulders to make sure they don't say something stupid to a client."
Best policy is to keep your mouth shut. I've had many a bright people who are smart, articulate, able to think for themselves blow down a relationship by sharing their brilliance with MY client. I tell my people to refer all questions, concerns and complaints from the clients to me. That's my job, not theirs. If your hired to create masterpieces in moldings, do that!
I don't want people who stand around waiting me me to figure out what they should be working on next when they finish a task.
A task list will solve this. It's required for even the brightest of people.
I guess my reaction is your looking for a method that produces a no fault outcome in an employee who performs exactly as he answered. Ever heard of a b.s.er? Very painful to work with and even worst to fire. And I think what Jim was trying to point out is there are brilliant, talented trades out there who can't articulate a thing. Grunts and nods, yes, does a fab cope, yes, must be reminded to keep his mouth shut, yes. And a good manager recognizes these "faults" and creates accommodations for him. Pain in the butt? You bet.
Often I go with my gut and that's ability comes from making mistakes. And being willing to make mistakes in the future. And the outcome can sometimes be delightful.
Example: A 2nd generation stone mason that needed full time work who's language and attitudes towards blacks, gays, women, painters, carpenters and so on were evident from the first conversation as was his incredible skill with fitting stones made it my job to prepare all for the arrival of this talented but flawed character on the job. To this day, current employees and the clients themselves still talk, with a smile, about when Bill, the stone mason worked that job. And what a job he did! Probably the finest work he ever produced. All because WE made a few changes for the sake of the outcome rather than to insist he change to accommodate our rigid standards of conduct, blah, blah blah........
Don't get me wrong Jerrald, I think there is great value to your outline, but I think it needs a bit more flexibility, a bit more exits to deal with those malcontents that come along once in a while. And the acceptance that behind all great employees is a great manager.
Yup Mark I do "want people that can think for themselves and problem solve
..." and I understand what you mean by "You
have just described an excellent sub-contractor. " But there is
one small problem with the literal bottom line of that as it relates to what
we do. We are "the excellent sub-contractor" you've described. And
while I still do direct some of the work we sub-contract out further to other
contracting partners I have some reasons I want to further develop our in-house
capabilities that I will be getting into again soon in another discussion I
was getting ready to start. While I still do or will do the right project as
a general contractor if and when they come up I would say close 90% of the work
we now do is the design, fabrication, and installation of artisan or artistic
type projects for General Contractors.
"I don't want to have to stand there watching them
over their shoulders to make sure they don't say something stupid to a client."
"I tell my people to refer all questions, concerns
and complaints from the clients to me." How well does that
work for you. How well does your staff handle that when it comes up? Remember
in post #21899.15
where "...I asked this one applicant "could you tell me about a
time when a client asked you to make what you thought was an unreasonable request
for a change and tell me how you handled it?" The reason I ask that
question (among others) is to see just how they handle that situation. When
my people know the answer to a clients question I want then to answer it so
my client doesn't think I have a bunch of brain dead drones on the job. But
I also want them to exhibit good judgment too and to be politely able to advise
the client that their question or request needs to really be answered by either
me or the GCS.
To that end which is a better response for one of you employees to give to
one of your homeowners or clients?
"You'll have to call Jerry and ask him that."
"Well Mr. Smith I can't really answer that myself but I'll give Jerry
a call and see if I can get an answer on that for you first thing tomorrow".
I prefer the second one going away by a long shot. The second answer says to
a client "I will help you with that" while the first one says "you'll
have to help yourself". The second response also allows me the choice of
"handling the problem personally myself" or "telling my employee
the correct action to take and letting him or her take care of it". I think
advising your employee of the correct action and letting them take care of it
also shows your employee you trust them and helps to teach them leadership and
management for their career development and future too.
"A task list will solve this. It's required for
even the brightest of people."
Yeah good idea but bright or dim they should be able to develop their own lists
too. I'm don't want to and shouldn't have to be their daddy. Sometimes with
an absolute beginner you do but the more experienced the "professional"
is the more they should be able to design and manage their own work processes.
I guess my reaction is your looking for a method that
produces a no fault outcome in an employee who performs exactly as he answered.
Not quite Ever heard of a b.s.er? No offense
and no offense taken here but do you think I just fell off the turnip truck
yesterday? 22 years ago I read Karl Albrecht's book Brain
Power: Learn to Improve Your Thinking Skills. The third chapter "Crap
Detecting" is ten times the worth the $11.20 price of the book. It was
in that book that I first heard that Ernest Hemingway once said that the key
to life is a "built-in, shock-proof crap detector". Beyond your plain
old common sense used to detect crap and B.S. there are actual techniques and
tools you can use too. I think if someone is going to B.S. their way in to a
job they are far more likely to lie or B.S. about their technical skills than
they are the interview questions I use. Also as I said towards the end of my
text in post #21899.17
responding to 27Sean
If they can do that and fool me geez they are good. It could happen, I not
so cocky to think I can't be fooled but I certainly ain't no pushover and if
it isn't obvious yet I have a real good idea of what I am looking for in people.
... I think what Jim was
trying to point out is there are brilliant, talented trades out there who
can't articulate a thing." Yeah I think that's true and I recognize
that but does that mean we should forget about an interview like the one I've
described for all the other people? "And a good manager
recognizes these "faults" and creates accommodations for him."
I agree and I done just that when the situation occurs.
Often I go with my gut... but where does that
gut feeling come from? What's it based on if you don't talk to the person and
interview them? and that's ability comes from making
mistakes. And being willing to make mistakes in the future. But
the idea of a good solid interview is to keep the mistakes (bad hires) to a
minimum.
Don't get me wrong Jerrald, I think there is great value
to your outline, but I think it needs a bit more flexibility, a bit more exits
to deal with those malcontents that come along once in a while. Oh
I think those "exits" are there and if you actually knew me in person
you would know I prefer the rebels to conformists, and all those who march to
different drummers fit in well with me and the work environment I create. My
intent in posting this was to get some constructive feedback and criticism and
to sharpen up what I already do when recruiting and interviewing prospective
employees and I've gotten a lot from all of your feedback. Believe me it's all
been very very helpful and revealing.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
Jerrald
You're good with words. I'm not. I would walk out of an interview like that before it was over. That's why I work with my hands, not my mouth. I think you would get a good BS'er picked out of the bunch of applicants over a good worker. Unless you're looking for someone that can BS, you are going to intimidate a lot of applicants, especially the ones that are uncomfortable in interviews (like myself). On the other hand, if you're looking for a talented communicator it's an OK approach.
Hi, Jerrald-
Your interview outline and questions are indeed very thorough and well thought out. They are all very important qualifications, especially for high quality, high dollar work. Perhaps something to add would be an indication of the applicant's goals and aspirations.
Of course, in the end, the real proof is in how someone performs on the jobsite- quality of work, productivity, problem solving skills, ability to communicate, and how they work with others including the client. If someone can't do All these things fairly well, it's probably just not worth the time and effort to work with them.
Ken Hill
Edited 7/29/2002 4:28:13 PM ET by Ken Hill
Ken Hill-...Perhaps something to add would be an indication
of the applicant's goals and aspirations. --Well as I may have mentioned
either here or elsewhere I do ask "what do you want to be when you grow
up?" But I am working on a little bit more more serious sounding and thorough
way of getting at that too. I'm thinking that that may actually be the most
important question to ask of all of them.
Of course, in the end, the real proof is in how someone
performs on the jobsite- quality of work, productivity, problem solving skills,
ability to communicate, and how they work with others including the client.
If someone can't do All these things fairly well,
it's probably just not worth the time and effort to work with them. --Exactly.
It's the whole damn thing, the sum of all the parts, that really matters.
Thanks Ken. What do you do to get at "what they want to be when they grow
up"?
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
The questions you are asking are behavioural type questions; they are already commmon in many industries, and I think they will become more so. People are important, and the investment an employer makes in a person is more and more significant these days. They are certainly the norm in my organisation, a college....obviously, the people/behaviour side is critical. We have to interview before panels of seven or eight people, which is overkill to me, but they are trying to represent a spectrum. At levels higher than me, thereare batteries of psychological testing involved also.
My feeling is, by the time you have shortlisted, you've looked into the background of the potentials, and you have a pretty good idea that they can do the technical part of the job. If they can't, why waste both your time with an interview? The behavioural questions get at the person, and give you an indications whether you can work together etc.
One of the things my college does is to put each student through a portfolio training course....one of our slogans is 'the portfolio college'. This isn't a traditional portfolio with a gallery of pictures, though that is part of it. And it's not a scrapbook of life experience, either, though that is part of it. I just went through a pretty intensive course to develop mine (I have been keeping a visula portflio for years, but this is deeper). The course involved writing at least two learning narratives (little pieces on times when you learned something very significant), a life history, a chronological record of your life from whatever point you choose, and a goals list. You also have to prepare lists of transferrable skills, and list and prioritise values and things like that, figure out what you uniquely have to offer (if this sounds touchy feely, just hold on....). You have to prepare two resumes, one chronological and one functional, or skills based, or a hybrid. You also assemble all the documentation you need (certificates, licenses, pictures, letters, etc).....if it's in your resume, you have to be able to verifiy it. There's more, too, and what you put into the actual 'thing' that you might take with you to an interview is up to you....it may be purely professional, or you may have some of the morepersonal stuff in yours (I don't).
It's hard work, but it's a lot of fun too, and it's valuable. In my class of ten, including several hard core tradesmen, all were converts to the process. It will give you a lot of insight into skills you have, often from jobs you've forgotten you ever did. This is not a one time thing; it's ongoing, and the physical portfolio changes depending on the job you want. You will have a physical portfolio to bring with you to an interview, but you may just leave it for review, or refer to parts of it here and there as appropriate. It's not expected that you wouldmake a formal presentation, page by page. The real value lies in the work you did to prepare it, and that's all upstairs. After going through the proccess, I think most people would be very well prepared for interview questions like Jerrald proposed. Like I said, going through the process is a formal requirement of our students, as of this year. My crew that just graduated had theirs 'done' by the time I got here, but they all seemed to get a lot out of the process too.
Dammit, another long post to a thread with EXTREMELY long posts. Sorry.
cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Edited 7/30/2002 8:13:22 AM ET by Adrian
Since we are talking about spending more time and effort to find the right employee I just wanted to throw this out.
A very good friend of mine works for a fortune 500 (I actually think the company is a top 100) company that is doing very well, growing and needs employees. They have very, very high standards and pay the high salaries/benefits/bonuses to match. All potential candidates come from head hunters, they don't advertise.
They are so picky that it is not uncommon to take over a year to find the right person for the job. In the mean time their business suffers and personal quit because they are being over worked from being understaffed.
They also are always trying to find these outstanding, independent employees to fill lower level jobs and wonder why the only people who are good enough don't want these type of jobs or that they take the job then demand to be promoted after only working for a year etc....
Just something to think about.
Very interesing thread. Usually don't tread over here in the business section, but am 3/4 inebriated tonight so was glancing around.
Your original post was right on. I've been on a selection committee for engineering technical fellowship membership review for a major aerospace company to select and approve applicants (over 6 figure salary range successful applicants). Thanks for the list of questions, they are all applicable for my purposes- - previous comments have alluded to your high standards - my compliments.
A caveat - do you reject "overqualified" applicants??? (e.g - say an applicant said "on the upgrade of the xyz bridge, Mr. zxc noticed that grade 386 bolts were specified, my comments were that NASxyz should have been used for that loading" )
MARKH128- I'm very sympathetic to those who struggle with words and communication.
I was a severe stutterer as a kid and spent twelve years in speech therapy and
even after I was through with that the stutter would still pop up now and
then all through my twenties.
I would walk out of an interview like that before it
was over. Of the the hundreds of people I've interviewed over the years
no one has ever walked out of the interview but if they felt like they had to
I would still feel comfortable with that. If you or anyone feels offended or
uncomfortable with the interview I've described I am sure you would not fit
in at all with my company's culture or the work environment we are in. My end
owner/clients are amongst the most demanding in the world since we work the
luxury market Westchester, Fairfield CT and Manhattan.
The only time anyone has ever walked out in fact was when I thought they were
B.S.ing me and I gave asked them to take my little practical test laying out
a rafter or stair carriage. I had I think three people in all these years suddenly
have something else they had to do at that minute so they couldn't do the test
for me.
"I think you would get a good BS'er picked out of
the bunch of applicants over a good worker." I would really really
doubt that. Like I said just previously, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck
yesterday. "Good workers" who can't communicate certainly have their
place but let's face it a "good worker" who can also communicate is
a far better asset and talent.
Unless you're looking for someone that can BS, I
am not and don't think for a minute I am fooled. ...you
are going to intimidate a lot of applicants, -maybe but I haven't really
seen anyone really cower. I think you are over reacting and it's not really
as bad as you think...especially
the ones that are uncomfortable in interviews (like myself). On the other
hand, if you're looking for a talented communicator it's an OK approach. I
am looking for all types.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.