JOB POWER – laundry outlet box
I never knew I had it so good on the new projects – power poles and daisy chains of spider boxes. Remodel work – it’s back to underwired homes.
Has anyone had experience with building an outlet box that will use the 30A 120/240 dryer outlet. (I am sure OSHA would not approve, but I don’t want to be using a hand saw for the next X months.) What about breaker protection on the box? 30A down to 20A
I envision a pigtail that will provide a balanced circuit with the red feeding one half of the outlet and the black feeding the other. These older homes have 3 pin outlets.
On the job today: Not a single outlet on the front of any of these condos. We were around back looking for something on the patio. Lady let us plug into her garage – few oulets there. Hook up compressor. Pop breaker. They have gone out. Knock on another door. Use their outlet.
It’s true, most carpenters have not a clue about voltage drop and why they can’t run their compressor at the end of 100 ft of 12g cord on a 15a circuit.
After work I broke down and bought a 10/3 100′ cord with a 3 outlet end from Homer. At 62.00, it’s a good deal. That stuff is normally about a dollar a foot.
The ToolBear
“Never met a man who couldn’t teach me something.” Anon.
Replies
$62 was a deal. Last one I saw was $86.
I think I have engineered a solution to your 30A/ 20A problem. I even bought the deal in a close out aisle but never got aroung to building it.
Bus Fuses, I think that's their name, makes a fuse holder that goes in a handy box. It has source and load terminals with a screw in for one of them old time plug fuses. I have seen these for sale at the big box.
I don't know what size the screw in fuses they make but if they make a 8 amp then you would never burn up your 8A drill at the end of that long cord. Anyway you can put in a 15 or 20 A fuse and not be connected to a 30 A source.
Some time ago FH had a quizmo somebody submitted in the front of the mag. The guy took a five gallon bucket and mounted electrical recptacle boxes pointing out the bottom. He stored the cord that powered the boxes wrapped up in the bucket. Perhaps he even kept a cord in the bucket to run an appliance. Any way hauling the bucket to the truck made everything real portable.
Edited 11/9/2004 10:46 am ET by FarmerDave
CORD BUCKET
I recall that blip on the cord bucket. I use a 20g. Brute trash can and flake the cords inside at rollup. No recp. inside though.
I have a handtruck workstation that includes a pair of outlets. First cord out brings power to the workstation, then we lay another two 50' x3 outlet cords. 10/2 on demand.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
You have two problems. One is overloading which you have reconized.
The other is the lack of a ground.
Now my background is electronics. And there are all kinds of circuits that are designed to mount in equipment that either have a button or toggle and they mount on the pannel and have terminals on the back. They don't need a bus bar. Then I would mount them in a box with GFCI receptacles.
But here is something that you can do with more common parts and is probably more durable.
Get a 4-8 slot panel. You don't need a main breaker, but having a 30 amp breker built in would be handy.
Then get a pair of 4" sq boxes and directly bolt them to each side of the panel. Put 2 duplex receptacles in each box.
Get 4 20 amp GFCI breakers and mount in the panel.
And burn this message after reading it so that OSHA can't track me down.
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Get a 4-8 slot panel. You don't need a main breaker, but having a 30 amp breker built in would be handy.
Then get a pair of 4" sq boxes and directly bolt them to each side of the panel. Put 2 duplex receptacles in each box.
Get 4 20 amp GFCI breakers and mount in the panel.
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I wonder if the GFCIs would work, given the lack of a ground. Need to reread how they work. However, we had AC in this country for decades without a green wire being present.
I thought of doing a small panel and outlets. Did one once for our Habitat chapter. It mounted on a hand truck, had a 50A 125/250 plug and Y and would mount in our spider box systems. There were four duplex boxes around the panel and a total of 8 20A circuits
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
> ....I wonder if the GFCIs would work, given the lack of a ground. Need to reread how they work. However, we had AC in this country for decades without a green wire being present.
They work better with a ground. They measure the current leaving the hot equals the current returning on the neutral. When not equal, they trip.
An old jumper cable to the cold water pipe would give a ground on old three wire laundy systems. If the laundry has plastic pipe ...Big Macs - 99 cents
Yes, GFCI's work without a ground.
As was said they by comparing the goesoutit current with comesinit currnet (sorry to use such technical terms). And in fact they are code approved to replace nonground receptacles.
Here is where a true ground would be of some slight improvment. Say that you had a grounding style tool and a fault from the hot to the ground. With a true grounded system then you would have current flowing through the ground (in addition to the neutral) as soon as you turned on and the GFCI MIGHT trip immediately or might not.
If you did not have a true ground then the there would not be any fault current as there was not ground wire. But if you where holding the tool and at the same time touched a ground (such as damp earth or plumbing) then fault current would flow through you and the GFCI would trip. Which is exactly what is suppose to do.
And it will trip on other faults that woudl not be helped with a true ground. For example a break in the insulation on the hot wire.
@@@ GFCI works without ground
Tnx for the data. I will find a 20a GFCI for the project.
I just might make one of my breakdown boxes with the two J boxes mounted on left over fascia stock and an EMT handle between them carrying the wire.
That 62.00 for 100' of 10g at the Depot is rather attractive. Might get another, cut in half. 50 ft with 20A twist lock plug and a set of dongle adapters like the appliance dongle should set me up. The other 50' with 3 outlet end can do for ordinary setups.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
I actually did exactly what you described once. Mostly due to being in that same situation.
I took a dryer cord and ran it into a plastic box where I split the two halfs into two "circuits". I used GFCI outlets just to make me feel a little better, but I think a wiser move would be to do something more like what this last poster is describing.
You have to be very careful with dryer and stove, etc. outlets. The hots work but a three hole either has no neutral or no ground. Either way, it will sort of work but the ground is often sketchy.
At the first Lowe's I built single-handedly, we had such a contraption. I plugged my battery charger and it went Pfft! There was no neutral and the ground was intermitant. I measured all kinds of high voltages out of the thing. Scissor lifts seemed to survive.
If you must proceed, get a 30 Amp plug and heavy duty cord and run it to a small panel box and then attach the GFCIs to the sides as mentioned above. Protect them with 20 Amp breakers. Paint the thing blue or your company colors so you can tell the snoops from osha that you painted over the UL labels accidentally. Use a strain relief device where the cord enters the box.
~Peter
Crane, harness and bulldozer needed for hostage resque attempt in West Virginia.
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You have to be very careful with dryer and stove, etc. outlets. The hots work but a three hole either has no neutral or no ground. Either way, it will sort of work but the ground is often sketchy.
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30A dryer circ should have two hot and a neutral, no ground. They are 125/250v. Used a frame gound, I am told. Wonder how that worked. I would prefer a gound, but the homes I am working on date back 20+ and are mostly 3 prong.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
I have a 10-3 like you do, and just connect bare wires to the box 1 hot, 1 neutral and 1 ground. It is only 6 feet long and terminates to a double duplex box. It is staked down or wired down to something solid. I don't want the box getting pulled loose. This provides me with a full 20 amps. From there I have a 100 foot 10-3 extension cord, again terminating in another double duplex box.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Possible? Yup. My electrician made mine for me for $50. GFI's, and the rest has pretty much been stated. I haven't had any problems with it, but I won't defend it much farther than that.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain