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Discussion Forum

Jobber vs Construction Pro

Nivek | Posted in Tools for Home Building on December 8, 2004 08:30am

looking at buying a new construction calculator. Seen two interesting models made by two different manufactures. Considering the Construction Master 4075 Trig Plus 3 which is basically the Construction Master Pro with trig functions and the Jobber 6 or Jobber PDA program.

Anyone have experience with these products? Any other calculators I should be considering?

Thanks

Reply
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Replies

  1. slykarma | Dec 08, 2004 09:19am | #1

    Consider a regular scientific for $10-15 and learn to do it all from first principles. For a clear, comprehensive rundown on roof and stair framing, pick up a copy of Construction Geometry, by Brian Walmsley.

    http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=42817&category=1,46096,46109&abspage=1&ccurrency=1&SID=

    If you understand the principles of what you're doing, you'll do it better than just punching a button for stair riser or rafter run.

    I like the Casio scientifics. They are inexpensive and robust (I carry mine in tool pouch every day), and entering data is easy because it's in the same order you would write the algebraic expression. Mine has 8 memories and a recall/edit function and cost under $15.

    Wally

    Lignum est bonum.
    1. slykarma | Dec 15, 2004 07:52am | #7

      Or just do it in metric and cut down those key strokes right quick.

      WallyLignum est bonum.

      1. MikeSmith | Dec 15, 2004 03:35pm | #8

        kev... i've used scientific & trig calculators ever since i got rid of slide rule..

        about 2 years ago i bought a CM IV  at HD.. they had a coupon for a blue plastic aligator case with rubber sides..nice add on

        the trig calculators are gathering dust.. the CM is so far superior  , especially in working with fractions

         Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

    2. User avater
      Timuhler | Dec 16, 2004 04:09am | #13

      Sly,

      Thanks for posting that link.  I bought 2 of those books, one for my and one for my framing partner.  I've been looking for something like that for awhile.  Any other books you recommend?

      1. slykarma | Dec 16, 2004 07:16am | #15

        Tim,

        That's the best book I've come across for carpenters. I like the math aspect of the trade and am fairly proficient at it, but there are some tricks in there I hadn't seen before. The one about figuring elliptical cutouts for roof stacks is one I've used over and over.

        Most of the carpentry math I know came straight from trade school - based on my math skills developed in high school and an engineering degree back in the old country. We didn't use any one text in hammer school, it was mostly in-house developed learning guides fleshed out by the teachers. And it was all in metric too - even though Canada is frozen in time partway into the metric system and partially still in standard. The government lives in hope I guess. I still do stairs in metric just so I can avoid dividing fractions.

        WallyLignum est bonum.

      2. MikeSmith | Dec 16, 2004 08:04am | #16

        tim... is "Construction Geometry " any different than the material in Architectural Graphic Standards ?....

         Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

        1. User avater
          Timuhler | Dec 16, 2004 05:42pm | #17

          Mike,

          I don't have either book yet.  Is Architectural Standards a good book?  I'll look it up at Amazon.

          1. MikeSmith | Dec 17, 2004 03:25pm | #21

            tim.. it's the standard text for architects

            i have the 6th & 8th editions... my guess is they must be on about the 12th or 13th by now..

            i'd look at amazon for a good used copy in almost any edition

            Architectural Graphic StandardsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          2. User avater
            Timuhler | Dec 19, 2004 08:02pm | #41

            Mike,

            What kinds of things does this book contain that will help me out as a framer and sometimes exterior trim guy?  By the way, we just started a 12-12 roof and I'll post some pics this week.  It is all 2x12.  I think I'll have to borrow some of Barry Bond's "non-steroidal" body lotion :-)  Maybe I'll be strong enough to lift 24' 2x12s

          3. Framer | Dec 19, 2004 08:17pm | #42

            Tim,How are you doing. I'm framing an addition right now with the front wall at 2x8's 15'8" high with a 6/12 pitch with a non centered ridge and the back wall is about 44" lower with the back wall 2x12 28' rafters and the front wall 2x12 20' rafters and three dormers. I carry the 28'2x12's 6 at a time and walk up the scaffold 25' to the ridge all in a days work...........;-)Joe Carola

          4. User avater
            Timuhler | Dec 19, 2004 10:40pm | #43

            I carry the 28'2x12's 6 at a time and walk up the scaffold 25' to the ridge all in a days work...........;-)

            Are you sure that you didn't mean 2x2's 28' long? hahahaha

            We just started a 12-12 roof all 2x12.  Some of the rafters are 24' long at the longest section and it's up high in a vaulted ceiling so we'll have to build scaffolding.  It'll be fun.  We have good (decent) weather this week, so we'll hopefully get the roof framed and sheathed by Friday and then if it rains, we'll have inside work to do.  It's a 2 story with a daylight basement, so we'll have a weeks worth of inside work if it does rain, so that'll be nice.

            Glad to hear you and your family are doing well.  I bet in a year or so, little Joey will be carrying you and the 28' 2x12s up the ladder :-)

          5. Framer | Dec 19, 2004 10:45pm | #44

            Here's a shot of the roof so far. In the great room we double scaffold it. Tomorrow I'll start on the three dormers.Your right about Joey he's already beating up his wrestling coach.Joe Carola

          6. MikeSmith | Dec 20, 2004 07:26am | #46

            tim.. i'm not sure it will help you out as a framer or a trim carpenter

            you may be beyond it... in some areas ..

            it's the closest thing  i've found to a bible..

             matter of fact. if you figure AGS is the old testament... and your current Building Code is the new testament.. then together.. they do form the bible for residential const.

            it is the standard reference for all architects  in terms of space planning, framing, trim, math, geometry,  etc.. etc..

            i was wondering if that book on geometry  for carpenters had anything in it that  the ARch. Graphic Std's didn't have also//Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

    3. Framer | Dec 19, 2004 01:21pm | #37

      To the guys starting out and the guys that have been around a while especially Blue and Mike(Dogwood Builders).Blue I know you are the master at getting things done fast and saving time. Mike I don't know you very well but at this point you guys have a lot of experience cutting rafters so why not get to the calculations for roof framing faster.I would like to see if the 5.00 calculators can arrive at the numbers faster then the Construction Master calculators.What do you guys do to figure out all the lengths and angles for Bastard Hip Roofs with the $5.00 calculator and I will compare it to the Construction Master Calculator or is it not worth leaning something new on this calculator to get the answers faster or show me something newwhich I would love.I worked with my friends father who is 66 now and is stubborn as a mull and he's the guy who you would say "You can't teach an old dog new tricks". he didn't want to learn anything new.Blue I know your not that stubborn just by reading your posts but why not take a shot at the Construction Calc it definitely is fast.Mike how about you. I'm always willing to learn something new and if you guys show me something I will be grateful to you both.When you actually sit here and play with this Construction Master and I only started two years ago you will be amazed how much you really know about roof framing because every part of the roof is Triangles and when you punch it in on the calculator and then draw it on a rafter you will see how simple or realistic it is.A birdsmouth is a little Triangle for example a 5/12 pitch using 2x8.5 [Inch] [Pitch]
      3.5 [Inch] [Run] (2x4 wall)
      Press [Diag] Returns - 3.791667" or 3-13/13"
      Press [Rise] Returns - 1.458333" or 1-7/16"Plumbcut for a 5/12 using .5 [Inch] [Pitch]
      7.5 [Inch] [Run]
      Press [Diag] Returns - 8.125" or 8-1/8"H.A.P./HEEL cut.8-1/8 - 1-7/16" = 6-11/16"Or do it this way using Trig with the same calculator.Birdsmouth.5/12 = [Conv] [Tan] Returns - 22.62°
      3.5/22.62 [Cos] = 3.79167" or 3-13/16"
      22.62 [Tan] x 3.5 = 1.458343" or 1-7/16"Plumbcut.5/12 = [Conv [Tan] = 22.62°
      7.5/22.62 [Cos] = 8.125" or 8-1/8"H.A.P/HEEL cut.8.125 - 1.458 = 6.667" or 6-11/16"With those numbers using the run to the outside of the plate and deducting 1/2 the thickness of the ridge you can just add the H.A.P/HEEL cut to the rise and that's your ridge height.If you use the run to the inside of the plate as I do you deducting 1/2 the ridge thickness just add the plumbcut measurement to the rise and that's your ridge height. Doing it this way is less steps and faster (as I know you would want Blue) you don't have to figure the birdsmouth first.The point of doing all this is that you can do it at home on a piece of paper before you get to the job or just lay it out with the framing square or if someone here asks the question which people have you can just do it without using a framing square in front of the computer. Joe Carola

      Edited 12/19/2004 5:24 am ET by Framer

      1. blue_eyed_devil | Dec 19, 2004 03:45pm | #38

        Joe, I've tried to use the Construction Calc...but I'm not a big fan of reading small print in little books to learn the lessons necessary to make the tool function. I admit, I have a short attention span....

        I will also admit that the Pro calc may very well be more efficient at figuring unequal pitched roofs, ply cuts, etc. I use the word "may", because I've never actually figured one with a Pro calc.

        One of the most aggravating things that I experienced on the Pro calc was the need to specify what function I was in. After working so long using a regular calculator, I found it to be very annoying switching out of the feet, inch format and getting the calc to understand that I just wanted to add and subtract simple numbers. It might be very easy, but for me it just wasn't intuitive and I just couldn't shake the annoyance factor. I also have a huge need for simplicty in the memory function buttons. I vaguely remember being annoyed with that aspect of the pro calc.

        I will readily admit that I probably needed a tutor to learn how to use those Pro calcs. In fact, I gave my last on to a guy on the job hoping he would take it home and learn it and then return me some information. I never learned anything from him....and he still has the calc.

        IN the meantime I still use my old fashioned methods which generally work very well for me.

        One reason that I might not be as interested in using the Pro calc is because of how/what our work is. Most of our houses have 90% of the roof shipped as trusses. The heels are already given and I immediately establish a top of fascia line and derive all calculations from that. Most framers work from their HAP, and to the ridge, but I don't. I work from the top of the fascia to the ridge, then fit the birdsmouth into the rafter..most times there isn't a birdsmouth...only heel blocks.

        With that thought in mind...that our heel is always a given, I need my calc to tell me what the drop is. Most of our overhangs are 12'' past 4.25'' brick.  If the heel is 5.75", and the roof is a 5/12. I would punch in 16.25 / 12 X 5 M+ 5.75 M- MR  the anwer is 1.02...which means the top of the subfascia is 1" above the top plate. From there, all things are calcuated.

        IF the run of that particular roof was 12 feet, I'd calculate the rafter like this: 16.25 - .75 / 12  + 12 (m+)  X 169sqrt = 172.79". What did I do? I started with my projection, subtracted half the thickness of the ridge, added the run, then multiplyed by the sum total of (5x5)X(12x12) and sqrted the entire mess. I've left the total run in the mem to calc ridge height.

        That may seem to be convoluted, but that's how Ive done it for 15 or 20 years...and when someone wants to convert my thinking and tell me that I have to hit the word Pitch, instead of 169sqrt, I just lose my concentration and poof...the magic is gone and I have to start over....

        I encourage others to learn the pro calc..just make sure you  understand what every formula is doing...

        blue

        Ps Joe, a huge light bulb just went off in my head regarding an innovative idea..a nice improvement on an invention that has been swirling in my cranium....thanks for this thread...it was just the catalyst I needed!Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!

        1. Framer | Dec 19, 2004 05:33pm | #39

          Blue,Two years ago before the CM I would take the number off the framing square for example 8/12 pitch the common rafter per foot run is 14.42 and multiply that by the run of the rafter in feet which gives you the exact length so if you had a 12' run I would multiply that by 14.42 and it would give you 173.04" I would cut my plumbcut and hook my tape and measure down and mark it then I would step back 3/4" for 1/2 the thickness of the ridge then I would layout the birdsmouth and overhang.If the run was 12' 8-1/4" I would do the same as above and just add the 8-1/4". So whatever you had in feet and inches I would multiply the feet times whatever the square said under the pith and then add the inches to it with the square.Now if you wanted to multiply the whole 12' 8-1/4" run you just take that number in inches with the 1/4 in decimals and divide it by 12 and that will give you your answer in feet.12' 8-1/4" is 152.25"152.25/12 = 12.6875' x 14.42 = 189.95" or 182-15/16" (Length of Rafter)All that does doing it that way is change you 8-1/4" to .6875'.I've also just took that 8-1/4 inch and changed it by itself and then added it to the 12 by doing this 8.25/12 = .687512.6875 x 14.42 = 189.95" or 182-15/16"You take that same 12.6875' run and multiply that by Hip Valley Rafter Length number right underneath the 14.42 which is 18.76 and that's your hip or valley length.12.6875 x 18.76 = 238.0175" or 238" (Hip/Valley Length)I use to to all this by hand because it kept me sharp then I bought a 5.00 calculator and used that.Everyone has there own way of doing things as we all know but what's great about these forums is that most people are willing to listen and try different things and also show a few things to other people and I just turned 40 and I still have a lot more to learn and I'm willing to keep an open mind and do so.I know sometimes I get carried away with long posts but I like to throw in a drawing because it definitely can help someone visualize what your explaining and I feel much better when someone understands what I'm trying to get at.So keep up the good threads Blue because they're educational and enjoyable.Maybe I'll get you to buy a Speedsquare but I set this up for you the other day and took this picture........;-)Joe Carola

          1. blue_eyed_devil | Dec 20, 2004 03:49am | #45

            Joe, we were taught the unit method of stepping off rafters in carpentery school. I used to do the math, longhand using your methods, just to check my step offed layout. After a while, I just stopped stepping it off and used the unit lengths and did the math. Then I graduated to a calculator.

            When I graduated to the calculator, I had already switched to the homeowner version of the framing square, which didn't have the tables anymore. I then started doing the pythagorean formula to derive the unit length. Then, I noticed the it took five keystrokes to punch in 14.42...and only 4 keystrokes to punch in 208sqrt. That represented a 20% improvement and since then I automatically think of every pitch in that form. A 5/12 is 169sqrt, a 6/12 is 180sqrt, 193sqrt, etc.

            I told you I was weird.

            blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!

        2. Framer | Dec 19, 2004 05:37pm | #40

          Blue,Sorry for the picture I didn't save it in jpg. Here it is again.Joe Carola

  2. robzan | Dec 08, 2004 09:35am | #2

    Just in case you are not really up on your algibraic equasion order, i would suggest the construction master. ;-) I have had mine for years now and carry it every day. I love having an inch/foot calculator. I used to do it all by hand, except rafters for which i used the Reicher blue book. Now I am faster and more accurate. RZ



    Edited 12/8/2004 1:36 am ET by robzan

  3. User avater
    BossHog | Dec 08, 2004 03:58pm | #3

    I use both a jobber 4 AND a construction master. Both are good for different things.

    The Jobber is great for adding up dimension strings fast. Having the keys for 10 through 15 really speed up the process. For instance - To input 8' 11 3/4" on a jobber you just hit 3 keys - The 8,11, and 12. On a construction master you have to hit 8 keys to do the same thing.

    The downside to the jobber is that you have to think in 16ths. You have to input 1/2" as 8/16".

    With the construction masters, it's easier to multiply and divide dimensions. And it's easier to use as a regular calculator when you need to do regular math.

    I wouldn't want to do without both. Depends on what you want to do with it.

    Kill it, drive a stake through its heart, bury it and hope it never rises again to terrorize the American people. [Steve Forbes, speaking of the IRS]
    1. blue_eyed_devil | Dec 09, 2004 03:04am | #4

      Boss Hog....a man after my heart!

      Anyone that counts keystrokes can booger with me!

      blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!

    2. Nivek | Dec 15, 2004 07:06am | #5

      thanks for the reply

      i downloaded the sample program of the Jobber calculator and it does seem to work fairly well and is easy to work with, i just do not have any way to determine if the construction pro performs better. you mentioned the key strokes which i picked up on right away and the ease of multiplying and dividing with the CM. can you give me the reason why the CM is better at dividing and multiplying (these are the functions i will probably use the most)

      thanks again

      1. Davo304 | Dec 15, 2004 07:30am | #6

        "can you give me reasons why the CM is easier to multiply and divide...."

        Kev, you don't need a reason....suffice it to say that the Construction master can add, subtract, multiply, and divide whole numbers or fractional numbers in the same manner that a standard calculator does with whole numbers and decimals...just punch in the numbers of your problem, press the desired function, and voila!...you have your answer.

        Buy the Construction Master...anything else is really 2nd best...period!

         

        Davo

      2. User avater
        BossHog | Dec 15, 2004 03:56pm | #9

        "can you give me the reason why the CM is better at dividing and multiplying..."

        With the jobber it's a bit harder to divide. Let's say you wanna take a dimension and divide it by 2. You have to divide by 2 whole feet - You can't just hit the number "2", or it will divide by 2/16". You have to hit "2" - "0" - "0" to divide by 2 whole feet. It's not a HUGE deal, but can be annoying.

        Multiplying is the same way.

        One other consideration if you're really anal about precision - When you divide on the jobber, it rounds the number in memory off to the number on the display. For example:

        Input 4' 2 15/16" and divide it by 2 feet. The result you get is 2' 1" 7/16". Then if you multiply that by 2 feet, you get 4' 2 14/16". You've lost 1/16" in there.

        With the construction master if you divide 4' 2 15/16" by 2, the display will show 2' 1" 7/16". (Assuming you have it set to round to sixteenths of an inch) But the decimal equivalent is what's actually in the memory. So if you multiply the number by 2, you'll get your whole 4' 2 15/16" back.
        Pray for the success of atheism

        1. Shoeman | Dec 15, 2004 10:35pm | #10

          Saw the Construction Master IV in the Menards ad this week for $35 and I heard that they are running the mail in deal for the Armadillo case that Mike Smith mentioned.

          Think someone will be getting one for Christmas - this is the one I have and like and really like the case.

    3. timkline | Dec 16, 2004 03:04am | #11

      I see on Jobber's website that they only work on Windows CE.

      Bummer. I am a Palm kinda guy......

       carpenter in transition

      1. User avater
        BossHog | Dec 16, 2004 03:35am | #12

        I've never used the software - Just used the handheld calculators.
        I like to pick up hitchhikers. When they get in the car I say, "Put on your seat belt. I want to try something. I saw it once in a cartoon, and I think I can do it."

    4. Don | Dec 17, 2004 04:53pm | #26

      You just struck the best blow for going Metric that I have seen. I only etch glass, and don't work at anything larger than about 10 inches - but I converted to Metric the first week I started because I didn't have to keep mucking about in fractions.DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!

  4. User avater
    Timuhler | Dec 16, 2004 04:11am | #14

    I keep a CM PRO Trig Plus III in my bags and use it every day.  Buy an Armadillo case and it will last you a long long time.  One of the best tools I have. 

  5. MikeCallahan | Dec 16, 2004 07:19pm | #18

    I agree with Sly Karma. You don't need one of those construction calculators. Here is a link to a very good book for roof framers by Marshall Gross. It explains very thouroughly how to use a standard calculator to frame a roof. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/091046040X/qid=1103213603/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-9843574-1569704?v=glance&s=books

    Mike Callahan, Lake Tahoe, Ca.
    1. xMikeSmith | Dec 16, 2004 07:48pm | #19

      mike...  i know how to use standard calc to do roofs..

       but the CMIV is a life changing tool.. it is SO much easier to work with than a regular calc.. mostly because of how it handles feet, inches & fractionsMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

      1. MikeCallahan | Dec 17, 2004 07:38am | #20

        Figuring feet and inches from decimals is easy on a standard calculator. I bet there are fewer buttons to punch too. If you have 12.438' just subtract the 12 and multiply the remainder by 12 to get inches . Then you have 5.256". Just subtract the 5 and multiply the remainder by 32 to get 32nds. Easy. Knowing the decimal equivalent is helpful. 5.256" is close enough to 5-1/4" So 12.438' is 12'-5-1/4"
        I don't see one of those construction calculators being any easier than that. To me it is easier to work with decimals and then convert at the end than to try and enter fractions in the calculator.
        Decimals are more accurate too. Unless you call a half .5000 and a 16th .0625, you would lose "significant figures". I suspect the construction calculators only use two sig figs.
        Mike Callahan, Lake Tahoe, Ca.

        1. MikeSmith | Dec 17, 2004 03:28pm | #22

          mike... i know decimals.. i know slide rules.. i bought my first calculator in '73.. i've had almost every edition of a trig calc that TI  made

          i'm just telling you.. grab a CMIV and work some sample problems..

          and it's not just for you.... think about using it for training some of your up & comming helpersMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

        2. User avater
          BossHog | Dec 17, 2004 03:48pm | #23

          "Figuring feet and inches from decimals is easy on a standard calculator. I bet there are fewer buttons to punch too."

          I don't think so, Tim

          Take a dimension like 4' 3 7/16". On a standard calculator you'd have to hit the following:

          7

          divided by

          1

          6

          +

          3

          divided by

          1

          2

          +

          4

          That's 10 keystrokes.

          On a construction master you'd hit:

          4

          feet

          3

          inches

          7

          /

          1

          6

          That's 8 keystrokes.

          On a jobber you'd hit:

          4

          3

          7

          That's only 3 keystrokes.

          So your agruement doesn't hold water.

          If you're used to doing it on a standard calculator and like doing it that way, more power to ya. But don't tell me it takes less keystrokes.
          Values may vary from person to person but the principles of effective leadership are eternal and universal. [Stephen Covey]

          1. MikeSmith | Dec 17, 2004 04:02pm | #24

            boss .. i didn't know the jobber has a 15 number keyboard.. way cool !

            adding strings is always a bear... hmm..

            so what does a jobber run ?  ( $ )  and what model should i look for ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          2. User avater
            BossHog | Dec 17, 2004 04:40pm | #25

            They used to be over $100. Looks like now they're down to about $70. http://jobbercalculator.com/They really only have one model - The jobber 6 is the current version.
            What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?

          3. MikeCallahan | Dec 17, 2004 07:02pm | #27

            How about,
            5
            1
            .
            4
            3
            That is only 5 keystrokes and four sig figs. I think in decimals. I have decimal equivalents of 16ths memorized. I guess my math and physics background won't let me ignore my sig figs for the sake of accuracy.
            Mike Callahan, Lake Tahoe, Ca.

          4. User avater
            BossHog | Dec 17, 2004 07:19pm | #28

            If you've memorized decimal equivalents of 16ths that's great. But it's hardly something most people would want to do just to avoid using a construction master-type calculator.
            At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats. [P.J. O'Rourke]

          5. blue_eyed_devil | Dec 19, 2004 01:23am | #34

             

            If you've memorized decimal equivalents of 16ths that's great. But it's hardly something most people would want to do just to avoid using a construction master-type calculator.

             

            Boss...you don't really have to memorize them...after you use a regular calculator for so long, all the decimals just seem to install them selves in your head.

            I found the construction calcs to be a little hard to use for normal math. Its been a long time since I tried one, but if I remember correctly, I found it cumbersome to do regular math, then use the feet and inches functions, then the regular math.

            I may have needed some tutoring...but I really wan't having any trouble figuring stuff...so I didn't feel the need to change.

            They may have some great advantages, but for figuring simple rafter lengths and heights, they aren't that good that I'd switch from my little, tiny, fit in my small pouch, $4.99 dual power import. My only requirement of those cheapies is a separate memory clear button.

            blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!

          6. Framer | Dec 18, 2004 02:34pm | #29

            "Figuring feet and inches from decimals is easy on a standard calculator. I bet there are fewer buttons to punch too. If you have 12.438' just subtract the 12 and multiply the remainder by 12 to get inches . Then you have 5.256". Just subtract the 5 and multiply the remainder by 32 to get 32nds. Easy. Knowing the decimal equivalent is helpful. 5.256" is close enough to 5-1/4" So 12.438' is 12'-5-1/4"
            I don't see one of those construction calculators being any easier than that."Mike all you need to do with a Construction Master with 12.438' is just press [Conv] [Feet] and your answer is 12'5-1/4" that's two key strokes not including punching in the 12.438.Your way.

            12.438 - 12 = .438 x 12 = 5.256 - 5 = .256 x 32 = 8.192 ????????????Your way without the 32.12.438 - 12 = .438 x 12 = 5.256..........that's 8 key strokes already not including punching in 12.438 and you still don't have 12'5-1/4" which is already displayed on the Construction Master. You have to keep going and add the 12' in front of 5.256 and just get "close enough" to say that it's 12'5-1/4".I know you wont get 12'5-1/4" on your calculator but it takes way to many strokes the way you do it. Have you ever used a Construction Master Calculator before?The Construction Master was two key strokes and your 12'5-1/4" answer is displayed. It will even work the opposite way with 12'5-1/4" displayed all you need to do is press [Conv] [Feet] and your answer is 12.4375'again two key strokes.Type in how many strokes it will take you your way and don't forget.12.438 - 12 = .438 x 12 = 5.256- (1 key stroke)
            1 (1 key stroke)
            2 (1 key stroke)
            = (1 key stroke)
            x (1 key stroke)
            1 (1 key stroke)
            2 (1 key stroke)
            = (1 key stroke)............not finished yetConstruction Master.12.438[Conv] (1 key stroke)
            [Feet] (1 key stroke)..........finishedJoe Carola

            Edited 12/18/2004 6:38 am ET by Framer

          7. junkhound | Dec 18, 2004 05:49pm | #30

            To each his own. 

            Since my major source of plywood is metric (1.5 M by 3 M by 1.8 cm baltic birch pallet sides) I've never even considered a construction calculator, always use scientific, or just do a design/layout so 3,4,5 are the standards of the dimensions.

            Everything our company builds has been decimal for at least 60 years, but it is mostly metal.

            Never in my entire life have I used the tables on a framing square.

            I'd think most everybody knows fractions to decimals to the 1/8s anyway, going to sixteenths is simply splitting the difference between the adjacent 1/8s.

          8. blue_eyed_devil | Dec 19, 2004 01:25am | #35

            I split the 1/8ths just that way Junkhound.

            blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!

          9. MikeCallahan | Dec 18, 2004 08:46pm | #31

            OK. So there are fewer keystrokes on a jobber converting decimals to feet and inches. No one has answered my concern for the loss of significant figures yet.
            Say you are laying out a stair stringer. Your total rise is 120.5" You need seventeen risers at 7.088". A feet inch calculator would say 7 and 1/16th" Actually it is 7 and I.4-16ths. That is a significant difference. I like to lay out stringers using the memory to add up the hypotenuse. Say the tread is 11" thus the hypotenuse is 13.085" The layout would be 13.085, 26.17....... Step the framing square up the layout. If you know decimal equivalents you can layout without converting every number. I know .17" is a hair under 3/16ths. A construction master would round down the hypotenuse to 13 and 1/16th" By the time you layout to the end of the stringer you would be more than 3/8" off. That is a lot of fudge. Probably no one lays out stringers like I do but you get the point.
            The angle rounding to 16ths would be a tenth of a degree off too. That is not too significant but if you have a vernier scale on your miter saw you can make a difference to tight from gapitosis on the scarf joint on the skirtboard.
            Mike Callahan, Lake Tahoe, Ca.

          10. blue_eyed_devil | Dec 19, 2004 01:28am | #36

            Mike, I used to layout my stringers using the memory. I still do it that way for radius stairs, but I have a much better method now for normal sawtooth style layout.

            blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!

        3. blue_eyed_devil | Dec 19, 2004 01:12am | #33

          Mike, great minds think alike.

          I've been using cheapo dual power for about 15 years now. I'm sure those construction calcs are good too, but I just can't get the hang of using them.

          blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!

    2. blue_eyed_devil | Dec 19, 2004 01:10am | #32

      Mike, that looks like a great book. I probably could learn a lot from it.

      blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!

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