We have the pleasure of joining and natural finishing walnut with bow tie dados for a dining room cabinet countertop (overall dimension 16 1/2 in x 9 ft 3in x 3/4 in). The walnut was pinned to dry in 1930 – plus, we get to do it to match the adjacent Gustov Stickley table (see attachments). We planed and ran the boards through the joiner yesterday and they came out good.
There will be 2 – 8 1/4 inch boards approximately 48 inches long with a 4 inch board on each end and a 4 inch board dividing the middle. (We had to put the divider in the middle and ends in order to get enough good walnut out of what we had. The Stickley table is 7/8 thick – (we had to plane to 3/4 thickness)
We plan to edge glue the 8 1/4 boards together then make a 1 inch tenon on each end of both sets to fit in the 4 inch boards (which have mortises which stop before they reach the front).
I’ve watched videos inlaying bow tie dados which use tite-bond yellow glue, masking so the glue doesn’t blotch. What about the idea of using Gorilla glue for these – would there be less chance of the glue interfering? We’re planning to inlay them about 3/8 inch.
Also we have had success in the past joining oak treads using Gorilla glue (which didn’t affect staining). Is there any reason this isn’t a good choice for butt joining the 8 1/4 inch boards? (I think we’ll probably use the Kreg Jig to add screws underneath on the joint). We plan to finish with water borne oil modified Minwax clear satin polyurethane.
I have some questions for those more experienced or other-experienced. Is Gorilla glue right for edge joining the boards? If not, what has to be done to keep Titebond from causing a problem with the clear finish?
What is the best method of application for the finish? I have an 18 in Padco applicator (for floors) but I’m concerned about getting too much finish in the champhered grooves. Should I spray it on (with latex extender) with the HVLP? Any other pointers for sanding, order of assembly, finishing, glue- or anything else would be appreciated. We’d like for it to look better than the Stickley’s (ha).
Replies
WOW - NO GLUE IN ENDS!
Butterfly Keys - I like that.
OK - we were working on the oak trim and this walnut countertop while waiting for the cabinets to come in. I just cut my first ever butterfly key and it's ready to glue. I will mask for it. Then as far as getting it cut off flush I followed advice on a video - cut an opening in a plastic school folder and we will make a preliminary cut off with an oscillating tool, then take it down with a block plane.
It so happens we have accidently followed your advice so far (before even getting it, ha). We were afraid of the Gorilla glue, had some good experience with oak stair treads then a couple of failures.
So we edge glued the 8 1/4 boards using biscuits, doing the champher on those edges and used yellow glue - left it clamped overnight. We masked for the glue and had minimal cleanup.
We were just about ready late yesterday to glue the end and middle mortise and tenon boards on when we got the call that the cabinets were in. You might have saved the whole project. We have 1 inch x 1/4 inch mortise and tenons. We may put the dowels in from the top since they show on the Stickley's table.
We have one small "ding" about 1/16 deep, half moon - a clamp or something. I'm planning to steam it out with my wife's iron.
We have the waterborne oil modified Minwax clear satin poly we will probably use. The customer wants no stain and - get this - we thought the table was walnut, but it's actually cherry so they said not to worry about matching the color.
You're right we're having a lot of fun with this. Any more advice will be appreciated. We are going to be hanging cabinets for a while.
INSTALLED - THANKS FOR ADVICE ABOUT DOWELING
FINEFINISH,
We transported and installed the walnut countertop today. It fit. We're happy with it and so are they. Thanks again for warning me not to glue the "breadboards".
I'm attaching pictures. Don
PS - the Stickley's Table is covered up. (I don't like to be around it when it isn't) It will be interesting to get a shot of both of them.
Fonz
can you take a couple more shots, standing away so we can see the whole wall unit?
thanks
MORE PICTURES MONDAY INCLUDING THE STICKLEY'S TABLE
Thanks for wanting to see more of it - I'll aim to do that Monday with the cover off the Siickley's table. The upper part (case with glass doors and wall shelf) was built by an old carpenter that moved into the basement while building his dream upstairs.
I'm not a photographer - I just "take pictures" (ha).
MORE PICTURES INCLUDING STICKLEY TABLE
I have a few more pictures with the Stickley table uncovered.
Super nice job Fonzie! Great continuity with original table. What finish did you end up using on the counter tops?
MINWAX WATERBORNE OIL MODIFIED
Thanks for my part! (the guy I work with has a lot of skill and great ideas) and thanks for the critical advice I got on this forum concerning doweling not gluing the breadboards. It would have been sickening for a split to develop over time.
(we detected with a magnet the Stickley's has long screws coming in from the end on their breadboards. I think they didn't want to just depend on the tenons). We joined the lenghwise boards with biscuits then the dowels so there are no screws in the countertop.
We used Minwax warterborne oil modified clear satin poly. We brushed it on. It has a slight amber tint (which probably you already knew, not to insult you). We just put on 3 coats (one coat on the back) sanding with 320 between coats. I thought about trying to wipe it on but figured it would dry too fast. Spraying didn't seem right either - I mean since it was so narrow we were pretty confident we could get it smooth with a brush. The Stickley's has an unbelievable finish. It would be interesting to know how they did it.
I was really surprised how easily walnut hand sands and responds to a sanding block. Possibly this was easier to sand and plane being air dried?
nice!
Again, your photo shows a nice finish across the surface. As far as trying to match the Stickley finsish: maybe try buffing the final coat of a varnished sample (after sanding between 3 coats) with 0000 steel wool with wool lube and see how close this gets you just as an experiment. I've found that this technique imparts a nice, even, hand rubbed satin finish.
I just milled a 50 year old piece of 12/4 black walnut somebody gave me a few years back into some S4S stock. I normally work with oak, cherry, maple, and African mahogany, but your walnut project has inspired me to experiment with finishing some of these pieces.
nice!
Again, your photo shows a nice finish across the surface. As far as trying to match the Stickley finsish: maybe try buffing the final coat of a varnished sample (after sanding between 3 coats) with 0000 steel wool with wool lube and see how close this gets you just as an experiment. I've found that this technique imparts a nice, even, hand rubbed satin finish.
I just milled a 50 year old piece of 12/4 black walnut somebody gave me a few years back into some S4S stock. I normally work with oak, cherry, maple, and African mahogany, but your walnut project has inspired me to experiment with finishing some of these pieces.
great idea with the steel 0000 wool and wax-
I bet Stickleys wouldn't be above doing that :) And thanks for the compliment and your interest in this project.
I forgot to mention a trick I saw on you tube that made joining with biscuits a WHOLE lot easier. I had always struggled getting the Frued biscuit joiner to behave using the fence guide (very little surface area, hard to hold, etc), never getting it perfect it seemed.
This guy set the board against the fence on the tablesaw and sat the biscuit joiner base on the table. This is a whole new world for me in buiscuit joining. We put the boards as described face down. Using the table saw table made the biscuit joiner perfectly stable and controllable. The boards aligned perfectly (using the term loosely ha). But that tip really worked good - I suppose I'm the last to know it.
MINWAX WATERBORNE OIL MODIFIED
Thanks for my part! (the guy I work with has a lot of skill and great ideas) and thanks for the critical advice I got on this forum concerning doweling not gluing the breadboards. It would have been sickening for a split to develop over time.
(we detected with a magnet the Stickley's has long screws coming in from the end on their breadboards. I think they didn't want to just depend on the tenons). We joined the lenghwise boards with biscuits then the dowels so there are no screws in the countertop.
We used Minwax warterborne oil modified clear satin poly. We brushed it on. It has a slight amber tint (which probably you already knew, not to insult you). We just put on 3 coats (one coat on the back) sanding with 320 between coats. I thought about trying to wipe it on but figured it would dry too fast. Spraying didn't seem right either - I mean since it was so narrow we were pretty confident we could get it smooth with a brush. The Stickley's has an unbelievable finish. It would be interesting to know how they did it.
I was really surprised how easily walnut hand sands and responds to a sanding block. Possibly this was easier to sand and plane being air dried?