Attached is how I learned to deal with joist that would be too close to an outside wall for access. Left is how it would come out if on normal spacing. Right is how I learned to deal with it I’m wondering what others are doing.
P.S. I left the joist hangers out of the drawing on purpose.
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Replies
Sorry, the lines are faint, and I don't really understand the access problem. Access for what? Is this over a foundation or a second floor? I guess I've always just slid a joist over a bit if the mechanical guys needed access. We always insulate those spaces before we sheath the floor.
The only thing I have ever heard called a mud sill is an exterior detail also called a water table. I think the thing you're calling a mud sill is more often called a sole plate, bottom plate or sill plate.
Yes, I had a lot of trouble seeing and understanding the drawings too. I think I got it though... like you said, normally the joist would just be moved over some.
As far as insulating a joist bay before floor sheathing goes on - That wouldn't happen on any of my jobs - I'd need to get the insulators out there, framers would be held up, plus what's the chance of getting the job dried in before the insulation gets soaked? Maybe it would be different with remodeling where the frame might be up in a few days...
BTW - we use that same terminology here - mud sill is the PT 2x4 or 2x6 that is bolted to the top of the masonry or concrete wall foundation with anchor bolts. For us, sole plate is the bottom plate on a framed wall - the lower most of the 3 horizontal 2x4s or 2x6s.
Can't tell from your drawings, but if you wanted to header off a joist like that, the joist on the far right of your pics needs to be doubled. Since you have to add a joist to header it off like that would likely just add more time and materials to the job. Just adjust your joist spacing to accomplish what you want, and add a joist if necessary.
BTW - I'm not a framer - I'm just the guy who's alternate responsibility it is that the house comes out right and the one who has to budget for everything...
Jimco,
Can you explain what the problem is and why you need access? Is it for a hvac vent or plumbing?
Even if you had to move it for something, there's no reason to do what you’re suggesting. First of all your header that sits on the sill and nailed to the joist is okay but the joist it's nailed into would have to be doubled.
All you need to do is move the joist over off a 16" center mark. That's it, just like you would do for a waste line. If the 16” center lands where the waste line is, you move it over. After you move it overt, you have to add another joist because by moving the joist over, you create a space greater than the 16” center layout.
No need for doubling up joists and putting in headers and then using hangers.
Sorry for the faint drawings They were a lot clearer before I reduced them to get onto post. I also realized after posting that I hadn't doubled the left hand joist in the drawing. Never happen in real life.
My intrest was related to insulating the exterior rim joist with no access. This is a recurring issue where there are inside corners in the outside foundation walls and where you are maintaining joist spacing from the other side of the offset (left in this case).
This relates to whether the rim joist/mud sill area is being insulated since it obviously could not be done if the joist remained in it's original position. Rim joist/sill insulation and leak sealing are important parts of home building. I am interested in how others view the whole issue.
If you have a problem, quit talking about it do something to fix it!
Jim Andersen
"I am interested in how others view the whole issue."Jim,Do as I said in my last post by just moving the joist over and not using doubles and joist hangers.Joe Carola
I've got something like that in my new addition. I can barely fit my hand (I have very small hands) between the concrete walls and that joist.Anyway, the insulation guys said that would make it very difficult to properly install fiberglass, so they'll just drill a 1 1/2" hole through the 2x10 and blow in cellulose insulation in there (they already did the rest of the house).Now, obviously if the rest of house were fiberglass, it would be a bit expensive to have them come out just for one bay, in which case I guess you'd have no choice but to try to stuff fiberglass up in there or pay the money to have foam or cellulose blown in.