Replies

1. 
   steve | May 26, 2003 09:29am | #1

   jack up( if necessary) and sister the joist. lag bolts and contsruction adhesive(lots)

2. 
   Piffin | May 26, 2003 04:07pm | #2

   There is no way that a single 2x8 header will span that distance. You need some serious engineering done.

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   rolandska | May 26, 2003 04:39pm | #3

   thanks for the info the house was built in the mid 70s and there is not that much room for storage just small boxes and things . thanks again.

1. 
   Piffin | May 26, 2003 04:54pm | #4

   Maybe I've been too brief.

   are you actually saying that you have a single piece of lumber, 2x8, that spans 24' with no posts under it? And that it is holding up all the floor framing for the garage? You are lucky if it can even hold itself up, let alone add anything to it. You really need a beam engineered to handle the load and the span.

   A doubled 2x8 header shouldn't have to span any more than six or eight feet..

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   rolandska | May 26, 2003 05:05pm | #5

   yes it spans the width of the whole garage and the rafters are attached with 16p nails that are driven through and bent over. i take it i'm in trouble here to say the least?

1. 
   Piffin | May 26, 2003 07:30pm | #6

   Let's puty it this way,

   From what you describe, I wouldn't park my car under it..

   Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   jonblakemore | May 26, 2003 07:31pm | #7

   When you say "rafters", do you mean floor joists? 

   Jon Blakemore

3. 
   rolandska | May 26, 2003 08:04pm | #8

   No, the garage is attached to the house but there is no living space above it

4. 
   jonblakemore | May 26, 2003 08:15pm | #9

   Are these "rafters" level, or pitched like a roof? 

   Jon Blakemore

3. 
   brujenn | May 26, 2003 08:20pm | #10

   Piffin is right, there has got to be more to this....

   Any chance you could post a few photos?

1. 
   rolandska | May 26, 2003 08:54pm | #11

   sure let me know if you need more

   
1. 
   Piffin | May 26, 2003 09:18pm | #12

   It's a little hard to tell what is what but it looks like the 2x8 is part ( bottom chord) of some sort of home-made or site built king truss meant to hold the roof up. Then later, somebody decided to create some storage space by adding 2x4s @24"oc and adding plywood decking.

   Am I right so far?

   If so, adding this load to the truss which appears to have been understructured for the roof in the first place, was asking for trouble. The way it was added was entirely unprofesional. Wrong nails were used to attach the 2x4 joists. 2x4 is too small for a floor. 24" layout is to much spread.

   so it isn't suprising that yopu see the beginnings of failure in the 2x8 "beam" as it begins to splinter.

   Only someone who knows beam sizing and can see everything pertinent on site can recommend a safe fix. Any recommendations we could make from here would be as limited as the view of the situation in these photos..

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   rolandska | May 26, 2003 09:46pm | #13

   no the 2 x 4s running the length of the garage are all original construction, part of roofing joists, the previous owner added just the plywood decking for storage the reason I know this is my parents owned a house down around the corner

2. 
   brujenn | May 26, 2003 09:53pm | #14

   Can you get a shot from the same angle as dscn2038.jpg but back up further?

   It would be nice to see more of the 2" x 8" and how the webbing attaches, if that is what is going on. Also, have you put a line on the 2" x 8" to see how much it is sagging?

1. 
   rolandska | May 26, 2003 10:07pm | #15

   it's sagging about a 1/4 to 1/2 across the span

   
1. 
   brujenn | May 26, 2003 10:28pm | #16

   ah-ha, a clearer picture of the muddy situation emerges...

   Now we see that this is original construction of a girder truss that carries the standard or common trusses that go beyond the garage to cover the living space.

   Probably originally engineered and built to pretty light standards, this girder shouldn't have much additional weight added to it. However, even with the storage you have on it, the point of catastrophic failure is probably still far away.

   It wouldn't hurt to add some reinforcement to the girder, but it will be a little difficult to sister something on with the wires and other things in the way. Do you have headroom enough to add something (like a micro lam) below?

2. 
   rolandska | May 26, 2003 10:32pm | #17

   how big of a microlam? i can remove wiring etc out of the way to sister up another 2 x 8 or 10 without any dificulty. but am way open to sugestion i just don't want wake up my garage roof sitting on top of my motorcycles screw the car.

3. 
   Piffin | May 26, 2003 10:49pm | #18

   Now that I can see it, I'm not worried as much about the car, though it is clear that it is being overloaded for the design. What brujean has saidf is a correct assessment but I still recommend a more qualified on-site design. You've got a gas line that is nothing to triffle with and the tail of the king truss is scabbed already. Who knows why.

   The nails used for hardware attachemtn of the other trusses are not correct. You can see that they allow those trusses to sag below the king truss.

   Why is the newer scrap of 2x4 braced into the truss? has it been deflecting sideways too? Maybe you should move htose bikes out..

   Excellence is its own reward!

4. 
   rolandska | May 26, 2003 10:59pm | #19

   no the twist is localized to that one area and I am planning to frame out the whole the area once I get the other problem solved

5. 
   Piffin | May 26, 2003 11:03pm | #20

   "how big of a microlam?"

   To size this in a normal situation would require knowing your local roof load requirements, the size and span of the regular roof trusses loading onto this one that needs repair, and what other conditions exist. ( bearing walls and load points) For instance, 2042 shows that there is no studding providing direct load to foundation under the tail of the king truss. Your dead load on that point could be over 2500# and a presumed live load two to three times additional.

   If you are in southern California the live load for snow is little but the seismic loads are high. In Oklahoma, the wind loads prevail.

   see why you cannot get specific design info here?

   It might be that a local engineeer can specify something easier to do than say, two 1-3/4" x 14" x 24' LVLs with glue, lags, and point bearing posts inserted.

   He might be able to delineate a plywood box beam configuration or a steel plate.

   meantime, I would unload that platform..

   Excellence is its own reward!

6. 
   BossHog | May 27, 2003 03:39pm | #21

   Henry, I'd like to tell you I have a solution for you, but I don't.

   Something just doesn't look right there. That truss that has other trusses hanging on it clearly wasn't meant to be a girder truss. Looks to me like someone did some creative on-site engineering and came up with this scenario.

   I don't generally like to throw out the "call an engineer" phrase too much, but that's what I think you need to do. I don't think a little reinforcement is going to help this situation. If you want it fixed right, you're going to have to spend some money on it. Anything else is going to be just minor patching and won't accomplish much.Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to your level and beat you with experience.

7. 
   rolandska | May 27, 2003 05:11pm | #22

   thanks for all the replies I'm waiting on a call from one now who has a lot of experience in my area over the years.