I am looking for a resource on constructing judge’s panel wall for home library including how to shim for uneven drywall and how to apply panel’s to wall over drywall. There seems to be a paucity of information on this online. I once had a book on this but lost it in move.
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I've never built one.
That said, it always looked like a basic frame and raised panel construction. A narrow "sill" or horizontal band at the top would be scribed to the wall. Below that, the frames and panels would be nailed up with countersunk finish nails into the framing - don't see where a bunch of shimming would be required. But if the need arises, shim as needed. I must be missing something.
Like I say, I've never built one.
"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
I'm not sure what a judge's panel wall is- anything like a raised panel wainscote?
I did a raised panel wainscote in a large foyer last year. It was all paint grade, which made it a little easier.
Basically, I installed the frames on the walls, shimming them straight. I then took measurements for the panels, and milled the edge profile on them.
I used construction adhesive and finish nails to attach the panels to the walls. I shimmed behind them where needed so the face of the panels to the face frames were uniform, or very close.
I then tirmmed the panels with a bolection moulding ( sometimes called a panel moulding), and installed a chair rail cap, and new baseboards.
One of these days, I have to go back and see how it all turned out after painting.
This was my first post and ...wow I am impressed at the punctual replies and quality information provided. I should have been more specific on my plans. I am planning on using inset plywood panels over drywall with separate rail and stile plywood "frames" and specialty moulding (similiar to picture frame) to span the gap between the rail/stile and inset panel to give the appearance of raised panel cabinet door insets. My drywall doesn't appear too uneven but I seem to recall others needing shims to even out junctions of rails/stiles. I am trying to put panels on wall without nail holes- have considered french cleats. The moulding between rail/stile and inset panel has slight overlap ( perhaps not enough to hide nail holes) onto face of panels/rails/stiles.
You were just lucky getting so many prompt responses. Sometimes it can take a while.
If you're using flat ply panels, why not cut them just a little undersize, use construction adhesive, and tack a few nails into the faceframes to hold the panels until the glue sets up.
Once the panels are glued tight, then pull the nails. Your panel moulding will cover the holes in the faceframes.
I don't know of any easy way to attach the frames without nails.
Oh, yeah. Is this paint- or stain- grade?
The rails and stiles that form the Judge's paneling can be glued and nailed in place on a sheet rock wall...If using rabbit moulding, which lips over the raw edge of the mostly used plywood rail and stile material, will hide the 1 1/2" brads used to hold until glue drys....Just angle the brads to hold tight to sheet rock....I have used this system mainly for stained paneling....MDF is the best material to use for paint grade....Another thing to be thinking about on stain grade work, hold your nail guns in a way that will let the head of the nail and the driver of the gun run with the grain...holes hide better that way....
Welcome to BT. Please hit entre about every five or so lines, makes it much easier to read. Compare you post to the replies. Again welcome and good luck with your project.
BobFor those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
viking, Based upon your description of "plywood panels" I see that as more of a recessed panel look than a true raised panel. In that case, I recommend lining the walls completely with 1/4" to 1/2" species plywood (stain grade) or birch or poplar ply, or even luan, for paint grade. PL adhesive and nails into studs will secure it nicely. With judicious planning you can hide nailholes with the stiles and rails.Plan the seams in the ply to fall behind the proposed locations for the stiles and rails. The plywood will give you a flat surface to mount your stiles and rails to. No shimming or floating required.When you go to install your stiles and rails over the plywood skin, no measuring...use spacer blocks. Fast, repeatable, and no skewing of your stiles and rails. Use adhesive to secure the stiles and rails to the ply, and use a few nails at the very edge of the stiles and rails to secure them in place while the adhesive sets.Your panel molding that will "line" the inside edges of your stiles and rails will have a rabbet on the back outside edge of it. The rabbet will cover the nail holes that are on the edges of the stiles and rails. Use a pin nailer and glue to attach the panel molding, and pin nail in the shadow lines of the panel molding and the pin nails will pretty much disappear.As far as layouts, I like to work in odd numbers. To me, three or five panels looks better than four.Unless you move wall outlets, you'll have to plan your layout so an outlet falls completely within a stile or completely within a panel. You don't want it splitting the two. Or lower them down into the baseboard.You can adjust the widths of panels as you go across a wall by a bit to make your layout work. It looks best to keep them grouped, again, I prefer odd numbers when able...example, under two windows on a wall you might have three panels 12" wide under each window, and between two windows the layout might only work if you have five panels that are 13" wide. It'll look fine.It's best that the panels be taller than they are wide.It helps to keep the "golden rectangle" proportions in mind. You don't have to strictly adhere, but for your initial layout and planning an approximate 1:1.62 ratio looks nice to the eye.The height of your base and the height of the crown can be modified to bring the number and height of the in-between wall panels into scale.I've never had to worry about shimming stiles and/or rails. I'll usually scribe one stile to another at inside corners to make up for out of plumb walls, that's about it.If you have any variations in stock width due to scribing, they are more noticeable with narrower stock than with wider.Example, let's say I'm running the walls of an older house where a wall is out of plumb by 1/2". If I'm scribing one inside corner stile to another to make up for that 1/2", the 1/2" variance is much more noticeable in the narrow stile that goes from 2" at the floor to 1-1/2" at the ceiling than it would be in a wider stile that goes from 6" at the floor to 5-1/2" at the ceiling.
< . . . the punctual replies >
It's 'cuz you said "paucity"
Welcome here - and it is easy to get addicted.
Forrest
So do we hijack now or wait till his second post?
Once that happens you know the addeiction starts.
least thats how it worked with me.October 17th, 2009
Jeremy and Lisa
Was there ever any doubt?
Hey what's with the tag line you gettin married or somthin? tryin not to forget the anniversary date so your startin early or what? ;)
Yes!!!!!!!!!
Woman of my dreams! (she says I have a lot of nightmares)
Trying to remember to show up is why it is there.October 17th, 2009
Jeremy and Lisa
Was there ever any doubt?
If you do, get a picture!Sounds like a nice install job.
I have pics; I just never got around to re-sizing them to post. I know, I'm lazy <G>
It was a fun job. The HO is a multi millionaire who will call me up with some idea on what he wants to do, and then lets me figure out the rest. I usually charge T & M, which works out well for both of us. Especially since he knows the work he gives me requires a fair amount of head scratching.
He's a hedge fund manager. So unfortunately, with the current Maddoff (sp?) debacle, his income is drying up. So I don't know how much more work he's planning.
If you can handle big files, check out the "Wainscote" thread in the Picture Gallery folder. I just posted a few there.
If I can figure out how to resize without incurring brain damage, I'll post more.
Very cool, thanks!I hope your hedge fund manager has... hedged... his personal funds and therefore has plenty more work for you to do.
Don't know if this would apply in your case because I understand the type of covering you want is a floor to ceiling application. I could be wrong.
I removed the existing plaster wall - right to the studs - because the wainscotting would look funny standing way out. I applied rail and stile and the custom mouldings to panels of mahogany plywood, cutting the ply to size so I could cover the joints with the applications.
Extra blocking in the wall cavities straightened the wall. The cap, just a 1x, was placed so that it fit under the horizontal cut in the plaster and did not have to be scribed. It was supported from below by being screwed to the top rail. A bad cut in the plaster can be repaired, sometimes easier than scribing.
There was a pretty good article in FHB about 10 years ago that explained the layout of paneling so that it balances well.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Here's how I do paneling. This run is cherry, with 1/2" cherry ply panels. Base, rails & stiles are pocket screwed like a face frame. Rout a rabbet around the back sides, drop panels in w/ a bit of glue & pin. Nail to the wall studs through the base where the shoe molding will cover the nails, and at the top into the studs where the top rail will cover the nails.
My Lovely Assistant prep sanding an assembled panel frame. The stripe in the base is an inlayed walnut accent strip.
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Again, My Lovely Assistant (with her loyal sidekick, Dog Watson) inserting and pinning the panels from the rear. Note the rabbets and pocket screws.
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Finished panel section waiting to be installed over the DW and cap molding applied. Note that the next section will "tooth" into this one to minimize the impact of the joints. Would have made this one piece, but I couldn't get the cherry long enough. All the other walls in the room could be done without piecing.
View Image
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Very nice Mike. Quick and simple.
That is what I do too. Best quality, best speed and easiest. This makes it very easy to deal with poor quality walls.nice work btw.
Thanks. I prefer this method over applied molding -- more of a traditional, as opposed to a "stick-on", appearance. And it is pretty quick & easy.
Here the panels were simply ply in keeping with the A&C design. You can use raised panels by simply substituting panels in place of the ply.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I'm doing some wainscoting now, pocket hole frame like your's then a more detailed base cap molding for the inside of the boxes. Nice look and simple. I wanted to keep this one simple so no raised panels here. This one is paint grade with short walls so I did this out of mdf. I have a festool TS, other wise I would never use that much mdf, the dust would have me flipping out.
Very nice work- looks very square (guess carpentry is the one field you can use the descriptive word square as a compliment). What staining method did you use?
One coat of Watco clear, let it dry for a couple days. Three coats of garnet shellac. Makes for a nice, warm cherry finish, seen here (other side of the room):
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=114049.15
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Raised or recessed panels?
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
It would be raised panel appearance but actually face level with rail and stiles with coved out picture frame type piece of moulding ( I believe one of the replies called this boldection moulding-sp?) spanning the distance between rails/stile and inset panel to give faux appearance of raised solid wood panel while using plywood panels. The coved piece is rabbeted on each end with only slight overhang-1/8th inch onto rails/stile and inset panel.
Bolection moulding.
I did some of that with my dad about a year ago. We built the frame then out the panels in afterward.
Watch the depth of the moulding though. In retrospect we should've gone with my initial idea which was to panel the wall first with the 1/4" oak then panel over that keeping the seams where they'd be hidden be the framing.
We did this in an office building over drywall and it turned out pretty good.
The 3/4" framing floated pretty well over any small variations in the wall.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Were the panels raised rather than recessed and if raised how did you attach inset panels to wall? I am not too sure than the bolection moulding (rabbeted on each end=overhang on rails and inset panel overhang) has enough overhang to hide nail holes in inset 3/4 inch raised plywood panel.
The panels I did with my dad were recessed. They were 1/4" ply trim nailed to the wall.
The bolection moulding goes between the styles and the panels.
If I was going to do it again, i'd panel the whole wall then add the 3/4" rails. That way i'd have the full 3/4" (that at least the tri I used needed).
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
You may need to either use some putty or be very careful about where you nail.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Buy a pocket hole jig.
Kreg has a video (that they threw in when I bought my jig) that gives a good overview of this.
Amateurs talk strategy, Generals talk logistics.